UKC

Looking for some advice please on a ridiculously complicated and stupid consumer rights question. I will try and be brief.

1) we bought an HD TV through pixmania.co.uk
2) long delay
3) turns out it is shipped by a separate third party company in Poland, pixmania are not the people actually selling us the tv
4) tv arrives, it cannot pick up HD in the UK. This turns out be something unique to Panasonic televisions which have separate Euro and UK receivers to save money on installing both in each telly (I think)
5) Panasonic have two models of tv, each with a very long series of numbers and letters I can't recall right now - one suffixed by 'B' (Britain) and one by 'E' (Europe). Pixmania were advertising it as a B but in the product description they describe it as an E. I honestly don't believe they know the difference.
6) we contact pixmania who say it's nothing to do with them
7) we email the polish company
8) very long delay, exchange of emails, increasing in tone (us) and in confusing English (them). Pixmania eventually agree to try to help us resolve it
9) Polish company say no one else has had a problem. We spell out exactly what the issue is with helpful links to Panasonic website.
10) Polish company want photos of the tv and packaging to see whether it's damaged


2 months later... Polish company have now agreed to refund us the money but here's the rub and I would like to know what people think.

- they are making us liable for the packing and transit of it. ie we pack it and arrange for a courier at our own cost. They will pay us back when it has arrived but presumably if it gets damaged in transit that would be our fault and they might refuse to refund our money.
- to 'save money' they are asking can we ship it to a customer in Gateshead? I have a problem with this because I don't think they should be selling it as an HD TV to uk customers, although I believe that if you had Sky you'd be ok (we don't). I also think: what if the customer in Gateshead doesn't want to accept delivery of a package which has clearly already been opened? Would it then get shipped back to us?
- does anyone know what rights we have to demand more help from pixmania? From the outset I thought our contract was with them but they aren't very interested in dealing with this.

For reference the latest email from Poland says this:

Hello,
I have a quick solution to this issue. I have a client on the TV- SET in the UK in NE8 *** [my blanks] - Gateshead. If you decide to send it to the client in UK at the address and sent me a numbers of delivery and the page to transit. When a client receives this TV I will do to you right away refund for this equipment. Can there be such a solution? If not, television has to go back to Polish - you can return it to us after that I'll pay you back the money. Refund money to your card from the pixma lasts from 2-5 days.
Please insert a piece of cardboard box in front of TV screen to secure it. Please pack it very carefully to secure it before damage during the transit.
Regards

which doesn't actually specify refund of the shipping costs when I read it closely.

What should we do?

In reply to Alyson:

Personally I would only deal with Pixmania. It is their error as they advertised it incorrectly. They are the party with whom you have the purchasing contract, not this Polish company. Start talking about making a claim in court for the cost of the TV, the shipping and for being put out by the whole affair.

If you agree to deal with the Polish company then are you alleviating Pixmania of the responsibility?

I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect that Pixmania have done this hand off a few times. Just because they say that this has never happened before doesn't mean diddly squat. You have no way of being certain that they are not just lying to you.

Good luck.

Consider getting screen shots of the offending errors on their web pages and noting the dates that the screen shots were taken.

In reply to Alyson:
Did you buy it by credit card? if so call your card provider and explain.
It's not your responsibility to be shipping the product to another customer and for all we know this could just get you into further difficulties.

In reply to EZ: Thank you - we did take screen shots and we've got them saved. When we started out I was quite determined that it was pixmania who should resolve this but it felt like hitting a brick wall and seeing as the Polish company now seem to be co-operating, the temptation is to continue dealing with them. GAH! Immenso-frustration.


This is my fear. Food for thought.

In reply to gethin_allen:

Yes and they've been quite helpful so far. I think if we get no joy at all they are prepared to step in so at least we have back up!

Who invoiced your credit card? Pixmania or the Polish firm?

In reply to Philip: Good question! Can't remember, I will check.

In reply to Alyson:

I knew there would be trouble when I read this:



Did they supply you with instructions on returning item under distance selling regs? maybe on the invoice email?


I would write to pixmania (copy to polish company) item supplied is not fit for purpose. It is available for them to collect by arrangement.

Talk to CC company and do chargeback.

In reply to Alyson:

I had trouble with Piximania before Christmas when I ordered a camera (and paid for express delivery) and it never arrived.

I did a search on the web and found (along with a catalogue of Pixie woes) the contact details for a couple of the top dogs at the company.

Polite e-mails to them soon did the trick!


Chris

In reply to Alyson: I'd echo what another_mark said. It's not thorny or complicated at all, you're being given the run-around.

If Pixmania advertised it and took your money, your contract is with them. Distance selling regs apply throughout the EU. If the item is not as described then it's the seller's responsibility to arrange and to pay for the item's return/collection. As the item cost >£100 (I assume, given that it's an HD TV) then your credit card company also have liability.

Can you share the web site screenshots?

In reply to Philip:

It was pixmania, I've just checked.

Thanks everyone else, this is all good stuff and echoing what I thought at the start. I seem to have been dragged away from the main issue by the correspondence with the Polish company. I'll be away from a computer for a few hours now but I think I can probably share the screenshots once I get to my home pc.

This is awesome and I feel more positive already. Thanks guys.

In reply to Alyson:

As others have said, your contract is with Pixmania, not with anyone else.

The Sale Of Goods Act is your friend. So are the Distance Selling Regulations.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/fo...
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/Consumer_Rights/Distance_Selling_Regulations

There used to be a guide to SoGA written for adults, but I see that it's been replaced with one written by a three-year-old... ah, here's the old one:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo...

'conforming to contract' and 'fitness for purpose' are the phrases you probably need.

In reply to Martin W:

Ok, bit of an update. Pixmania are going to refund the money but the reason they want us to liase with the Polish company about returning it is that pixmania had no part in the initial supply or shipping.

Does this seem reasonable? I still one or other of these companies should arrange the courier themselves instead of asking us to do it but I just sooo want rid of the enormous cardboard box taking over the front room that I feel like carrying it to Poland myself.

In reply to Alyson:

No. As others have said, your contract is with pixmania, and it's their responsibility to sort it out. It's not the case they had no part in the initial supply - they commissioned the supply from their chosen source and it's for pixmania to ensure that the supply is carried out correctly. It's also for pixmania to arrange returns.

In reply to Alyson:

From Pixmania's T&Cs

"11. Returns
All products except Kitchen and Home Appliances and TVs with a delivery fee of 29.90£:

For any returned package, please go to your PIX&I space and follow the return instructions.

Please note that shipping fees are the client’s responsibility, except if the product does not conform to the description of said product (the client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods). "


Seems to cover it. I would advise you to unleash hell on Pixmania's customer relations department, followed by on their Facebook page.

In reply to MHutch: Thank you so much, that's pretty conclusive.

Tonight I think I'll crack open some wine and give the customer service team a piece of my mind.

In reply to Alyson: Thanks for posting this in the nick of time. I've just ordered two HD LED blah blah tellies and an HD recorder from Amazon this morning for my parents and my mum had been recommended to use Pixmania- Phew!

In reply to Alyson:

Also the back page of the Saturday Money Guardian seem to be quite good at sorting out problems with recalcitrant companies.

In reply to Alyson:
Wait until you have the credited money IN YOUR HAND preferably, nowhere else before you do anything. Then they can swivel for it's return. Tell them it is awaiting collection from THEIR carrier and is currently sitting in the shed/garage/garden/on the door step until such time as they call. Included in as much of the original packaging as you can find.

I had an issue similar to this, a box of a dozen items were sent as SAMPLES they assumed I would just accept them and subsequently pay for them. I sold two, paid for those and I just stonewalled any demands they made for me to return or pay for the rest. It took nearly two years but eventually they collected. They were well out of date by then so they probably never sold them on.

In reply to unclesamsauntibess: Looks like last night's email may have got us somewhere. Pixmania finally agreeing to arrange collection! Only taken them 2 and a half months.

Not going to crack open the champagne until I've actually got the refund in my account though.

The frustration is compounded by the fact that we'd ordered one of last year's models after waiting for the prices to drop in March when the new ones were released. So the model we ordered is now sold out everywhere, and this year's equivalent costs a couple of hundred more. If pixmania had resolved the problem straight away we could probably have re-ordered from somewhere else but now the opportunity is lost.

I'm actually getting quite used to not having a tv though..!

In reply to Alyson:


I gave mine away over 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Get rid and stay rid.
(Disclaimer: My girlfriend, whom I live with, has a TV and I am required occasionally to enjoy the odd program with her! But I wish I didn't need to!)

In reply to EZ:

I find that since I got my iPad I rarely watch mine. It's so much more convenient to view on demand than conform to TV schedules.

That said, on that basis YouView seems quite interesting.

Neil