UKC

Can anyone offer advice on a good way to do this?

Logically it would make sense to start/finish at Pen y pass since it's the highest parking place, but I'd prefer to start at Ogwen and do the Carnedd section first since I think I could run most of that section if I was fresh.

After that I'm mot sure on the best sequence - I was thinking Tryfan, Glyder Fach, Glyder Fawr, Pen y Pass, Crib Goch, Snowdon, Nant Peris, Elidr Fawr, y Garn, Devil's Kitchen, Idwal, Ogwen.

I'd welcome any suggestions on a better sequence or specific route details as I don't have any experience of several of the summits

In reply to Paul Robertson: If you want to do the Carnedds first then I would look at coming off Pen yr Ole Wen then across to Y Garn, Elidir Fawr, Nant Peris, Snowdon, Crib Goch, Glyders and then Tryfan.

Personally I think that I would rather do the Carnedds last as they are easier ground than Glyders and Tryfan.

Cheers, Mike

In reply to Paul Robertson: I did it as a loop 2 years ago, much further and harder work than doing it in a straight line. I took 17 hours but I was 61 yrs old at the time! It is about 54Km with over 5,000m of ascent.
I started from the Climbers Club Hut Ynys Ettws in the Pass but if starting from Pen Y Pass a good way is:
Crib Goch, Gardedd Ugain,Snowdon descend from Clogwyn station to Nant Peris. Up Elidir Fawr, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr, Glyder Fach, up Tryfan. Descend Cwm Tryfan (easier going than the West side) to the A5 at the West end of Lyyn Ogwen. Go straight up North to join the Cardeddau ridge West of Cardedd Daffyd (Leave this top plus Pen Yr Ole Wen until later). Go over Cardedd Llewelyn, Foel Grach, Garnedd Uchaf, Foel Fras. Return along same route but do the Outlier Yr Ellen by contouring across from below Carnedd Llewelyn. Climb Carnedd Daffydd, Pen Yr Ole Wen and descend to Ogwen. Return to Pen Y Pass via Lyn Bochlywyd and over the Col between Tryfan and Glyder Fach and contouring back to Pen Y Pass. There are other permutations and it might be worth doing it in reverse as the flog UP Elidyr Fawr was grim, boggy and slow. Better to go down this way.
Good luck!

In reply to Paul Robertson: I can't see any real benefit of doing what you propose.

In reply to c beechey:
I did not realise I was on the RUNNING forum!! I walked my route in 17 hours and did not attempt to run. Fit runners would do it in a much shorter time I'm sure.

In reply to c beechey:

Seconding that slogging up to Elidyr Fawr from Nant Peris is quite grim. I got as far as Tryfan then bailed due to a serious electrical storm kicking off. I was pretty knackered too, mind you. The problem with reversing the route is this leaves Crib Goch for the end when you will be totally wasted, maybe not a brilliant idea.

In reply to danm: it's not grim.. it's just a steady incline

did the horseshoe in winter conds (elidir fawr, mynydd perfedd, carnedd filiast and then foel goch, y garn) a couple of years back and it wasn't all that bad!

In reply to Paul Robertson: By loop. You mean only doing each mountain once but starting and stopping in the same place? Could be some good routes depending on where you start with long, fast, easy sections on road.

In reply to c beechey:
I do run, but I'm not fit enough to run the whole thing! I'm certainly expecting it to be a long day.

Your suggestions are very useful.

In reply to DancingOnRock:
Yes, though there will inevitably be some retracing of the final part of the Carnedd range. I definitely don't want to use the road to get between Ogwen the Pass. For me it would spoil an otherwise excellent day out.

In reply to Paul Robertson: What about starting in Llanberis, Snowdon, etc, Glyder Fach, Tryfan, Carneddau, finishing via Daffyd, Devils Kitchen to Glyder Fawr and then back to Llanberris?

In reply to DancingOnRock: Actually that might make a superb 3 or 4 day out.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Saves car hastle..

A guy in Joe Browns 'created' a loop I think, I did his version..

Start in Llanberis up Elidir, down the north Ridge of Garn, up Pen Yr Ole Wen, then the Carneddau as normal, back along but traversing where possible (I still did CL again, but think it is missable), then down the flanks of CD, up the North Ridge of Tryfan just to add variety, then along to Glyder Fawr, down the red spot pass to the pass then the snowdon group and jogged down llanberis path back to llanberis.

As a run walk it was 10 hrs or so...

In reply to DancingOnRock:

That was pretty much what I planned to do last Sunday as a reccie. When I got back down into Ogwen I couldn't face another big hill, so hitched a lift to Capel Curig and jogged the last 8 miles to Nant Peris on the road - a very unpleasant finish to a nice day out

In reply to DancingOnRock:

By doing that you split the glyders at the highest point..

By splitting the Glyders at their lowest point you make it the quickest round..

Ideally you'd not go near llyn y Cwn or devils kitchen and use the red spot path and the north ridge of Garn

In reply to IainRUK: Agreed, North ridge of Garn makes a lot more sense.

In reply to Paul Robertson: I thought about starting at bwlch y deufaen at the northern end of the Carneddau. You lose the advantage of an easy end to the day, but if you hill run you would get a fast start along the ridge when you are fresh. You could finish on Snowdon - which might or might not be seen as an advantage! I suppose it is a little like the 1000 metres route. First time should definitely be the traditional route from Penypass.

In reply to altirando: 'as a loop'.. so you want to start somewhere en route..

N to South is more height gain. A runner is after a time and I'm fairly sure CD used the train when he set the record..

N to S is much slower as the last climb from Nant to Snowdon is so much longer when tired than Ogwen to PyOW, but also the last climb S to N comes earlier in the round..

In reply to IainRUK: What about starting at Ogwyn and doing Garn first.

In reply to DancingOnRock: Aye that's fine.. its just missing the big descent of Garn and re-climb to Gylder Fawr which is important on the loop. Doesn't matter which way.

In reply to IainRUK: Is there a way to contour round the Carndau to the west or is it best to stay high and retrace your steps on the way back?

I don't think I'd ever be fit enough to run this in a day but really thinking seriously about a multi day.

How hard is it to descend the alternate route off Crib Goch into the pass?

In reply to DancingOnRock:

There are some contours. Carnedd Uchaf easy, Foel Grach over the shoulder easy, CL is harder and I'm not sure worth the risk unless chasing a time..


Which one?
North ridge? similar to E ridge, just looser, but all there if careful. Blwch coch? easy.

On the round I went PYP > CG > CU > Snowdon Summit > llanberis so used none of the steep descents... the East ridge in dscent would be OK, but steep and in mist confusing.

In reply to Paul Robertson:
Thanks to all for some great advice. I can't wait to get back to up there for another go.

Could someone just enlighten me - what's the 'red spot path' mentioned by Iain?

In reply to DancingOnRock:

When I recced the Carneddau section many, many years ago I came back by dropping SE off of Foel Fras to the car park at the road there and then came South via Cowlyd reservoir. This is not much in it in terms of height gain than going back the way you came but it's rough ground and harder going. It got dark, my torch was knacked, it was really misty and I lost the path so although it was far from a fair test, it took me ages! Might have been better just re-tracing my steps.

It brings you out either at Helyg or Capel Curig depending on your line off the hill. If you're walking it, it might be nice to do the Glyder ridge from Capel. But then again, it might be nicer to spend longer up high on the Carneddau and descend via Pen yr Helgi Du. You choose I guess.

In reply to Paul Robertson:

Red Spot path is a path which leads from Glyder Fawr to Pen Y Pass.. down the broad ridge. Years ago it was marked by red spots which are occasionally visible.. hence still referred to as that locally, marked on the OS map.

Runners tend to follow the path for around 1k then swing down the hillside, leaving the path and descending to a sheep fold, as the path on the nose is pretty rough, you then cross boggy ground and drop into the back of PYP YHA.

In reply to Paul Robertson:

I can't pretend to know of a loop route for the Welsh 3000s, because I think the normal route works well in a linear fashion - at least the peaks are close enough together for you to try it Paul.

Having said that, I found that finishing on Foel Fras and our descent off the hill was pretty remote and hard work. You expect it with the Carnneds, but after 13 hours on the hill it was tough still. So you may struggle to get a nice route returning to Ogwen, other than retracing your steps, as aforementioned.

The running across the Carnneds is obviously really nice - flat, level paths, easy on the ankles and it doesn't need quick footwork so you can stride it out. So retracing may be the best option.

My friend Matt has written an entertaining piece on his run actually. He managed it in something like 9/10 hours!
http://www.climbingonwetrock.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/burrowing-little-mole.h...

Good luck with it