UKC

anyone else noticed the excessive use of what is basically gaffer tape stuck to all parts of people bodies.
certainly more of a fashion statement than a practical one,as there is no evidence it does anything (apart from make people look like gullible tw@s)

In reply to mark s: I noticed that. It must be a case of getting your excuses in early.

In reply to mark s:
when i was having problems with mobility due to long term achilles tendonitis kinesio tape helped loads. so there's at least some anecdotal evidence that it works. any evidence that it does NOT help knocking around?

In reply to mark s: So you in what is probably the biggest sporting event in your life and a some tape might help?

I'd use it

In reply to mark s: My physio recommended it to me to help prevent over extention of my knees though I saw the price of it and decided I'll spend the money elsewhere!

In reply to Dom Whillans:


nooo, you just thought it did.

In reply to Glyno:

i went from only being able to walk for short distances to regaining the ability to run and bounce on my feet again through a mixture of taping, massage and acupuncture in just 3 weeks... if the tape even helped in a purely psychosomatic way i'm very happy about it. The 2 NHS GPs I saw weren't arsed about the tendonitis and said they couldn't do anything to help, i paid £135 quid in total to an osteo and got a blinding result.
I've also had my feet taped in the past to treat plantar fascitis, but that was non stretch physio tape. That also worked a treat. I'll keep an open mind and enjoy being all wrapped up

In reply to Dom Whillans:

My chiropractor stuck some on my thighs when I had chronic IT Band problems, and gave me some simple exercises. In less than 2 days I could feel a difference in that under-developed muscles started tingling and felt as if they were 'waking up'. I was deeply sceptical of the kinesio tape and regarded it as quackery, but I'm a bit less sceptical now.

I don't use it on a regular basis though, just whilst getting those muscles working properly again.

In reply to mark s:
My physio taped up my pulled calf after working on it. It certainly felt more 'supported' if that's the right word. I don't think it 'cured' anything on it's own but it certainly felt like it was stopping the problem getting worse and helped me get about with less discomfort between physio sessions

In reply to Welsh Kate: 'my chiropractor' no more needs to be said.

In reply to mark s:

It's not as bad as 'hologram bracelets' which seem to be separating cash from the hard of thinking.

In reply to mark s:

Really? The treatment I get from my chiropractor is largely physio-based and I was recommended by my GP to see a chiropractor when the NHS singularly failed to do anything about the problem. Instead of having the offered exploratory surgery on my knees, within a couple of months I'd got back to normal activities after 18 months of living in pain. The treatment? Primarily exercise.

You may think that 'no more needs to be said', but so do I.

In reply to mark s:

If a top-level, highly-qualified physio (which I assume those working with the international teams are) suggested I use it, I would. I think their opinion just MIGHT take precedence over yours

In reply to Steve John B:

There have been many many top level "experts" who have recommended taping, chiropractors, homeopathy, vitamin supplements, prayer and blood letting. Not many of these practices perform too well in proper double blind medical trials.

I can't remember who it was that said "you know they've got a name for alternative medicine that works.... "

In reply to ledifer:

Tim Minchin in Storm?

I thought the tape was mainly about increased proprioception to stop you going too far on tweaked soft tissues?

In reply to mark s:

I wouldn't know but my step brother is a top 20 uk fell/ultra runner who after an ankle operation last year uses what looks like kinesio tape (he just called it tape but it was a long black strip and looked similar to what I've seen on the web as kinesio tape) all the time on that ankle still. He had bones changed in his ankle last autumn and is running 100 milers at peak form already.

Anecdotally it stands in favour the way he describes it.

In reply to mark s:

I don't understand why this stuff wouldn't work - Ok, so it's not an all out cure for an injury, but it provides some (maybe limited) directional support for injuries - I can't see it is any less effective than using a knee support or similar, and probably more effective given you can tape it in a specific direction to support a minor injury

In reply to ledifer: Physios are experts, not "experts".

In reply to ayuplass:

I had a similar experience to this. It may well be just placebo effect, but it's still an effect.

In reply to mark s: thee may be anecdotal evidence, but the hard evidence base behind kinesio tape is lacking, and while physio treatments such as ultrasound evidence is not very storng, the evidence behind it is physiological - i.e. we can explain what it's doing anatomically at a cellular base, and so evidence and back up the reasoning for using it, whereas no-one seems to be very sure of what kinesio tape actually DOES!

In reply to gingerwolf:

Attaches cables to lighting rigs, mostly

In reply to Steve John B: 'Physios are experts, not "experts".'

Er - my understanding is, not according to RCTs, they're not.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

RCTs find certain aspects of physiotherapy effective for certain conditions; equally RCTs find other aspects ineffective for other conditions.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

I happily tape the odd finger strain when climbing....similar principles then?

In reply to hokkyokusei:

Difficult to believe anything after reading 'Bad Science' (worth a read) so I'm less susceptable to Placebo effects these days (I had years with Chiroprators Physios etc - now do my own thing, and doing just as well/badly as I was before)

On a very basic level of scrutiny if I put a bit of tape along my skin and then move it, it travels independently of the tissue beneath, the tape is moving with the skin to which it is attached, with no effect at all on the tissue beneath.

If it is wrapped around a calf for example I can see that it might have a constraining effect, which may or may not be beneficioal.

Each to their own...........

In reply to mark s: A friend told me the tape has zinc in it. But after a google,(admittedly a very quick google) I found nothing to suggest this. Was he tellin porkies?

In reply to Dom Whillans:

Not based in cumbria are you? I could do with a physio or similar to sort my knackered achilles tendons.

If so, would be grateful if you could advise their details.

Thanks

In reply to Dom Whillans:


How do you know you didn't just get better. Sitting at home drinking tea may have seen you recovered even faster but since you didn't try it you don't know.

Anecdotal evidence isn't.

jk

In every example above where someone has stated: "x had y problem and used kinesio tape AND A,B,C etc. and then they got better"....

Remember:- people get better anyway so how do you know what percentage contribution the tape would have had??

In reply to jkarran:

Could you not say that about any treatment you receive?
As you underwent one form of treatment, you don't know if doing nothing / undergoing another type of treatment would not have had the same or a more profound effect?

Unless it's in a trial with another person with an identical injury / complaint.
And that other person is similar in physical make up to you.
And all other variables are the same.

A lot of people (not aimed at you btw) seem very ready to dismiss new ideas / approaches and belittle or ridicule those that say something has worked for them.

If the treatment is dangerous then fair play - ridicule away. But if it's not, and people find that it helps them, so what?

Si

In reply to SCC:


On a case by case basis yes, that's the problem. The solution is properly designed and executed and scrutinised tests, something your average hospital treatment/medicine will have been subject to. Something your average alternative therapy will not have been subject to despite appearances and protestations to the contrary.

Brightly colored kineso tape appears to fall into this inconclusively tested category. That said, I'm sure sports psychologists love it, it appears to be a sticking plaster for the mind more than the thigh/back/hip/arm. Just because it likely does nothing doesn't mean it's useless


I'm not mocking anyone. It just irritates me to see people being conned, willingly or otherwise.


It's not quite that simple. What about where an ineffective quack 'treatment' prevents someone from seeking a proven effective treatment?

Personally I also think there's a wider problem in not challenging anti/non scientific quackery, it's a backward step and one that's potentially very dangerous when you look at some of the larger problems facing our societies like climate change and increasing competition for finite food/water/mineral/energy. Quackery and religion aren't going to solve these problems though they'll no doubt offer to, if they can be dealt with we'll need to be rational and objective as a group, individuals can't do it alone.

jk

In reply to fosnchops:

It'll have zinc oxide in it (google 'zinc oxide tape') but that isn't there to be medicinal in some way, its just an ingredient in (I think) the adhesive.

In reply to SCC:

Pretty much, yes. which is why this:


Is indeed (more or less) what's required to demonstrate that a treatment actually works.

In reply to jkarran:
>.....Just because it likely does nothing doesn't mean it's useless

Well put!


Sorry, I wasn't aiming that at you.


Agreed.


Nothing wrong with challenging new ideas - it's the blinkered "that can't work because I don't believe / understand it" approach that you see which I disagree with.

Si

In reply to SCC:
There's a difference between saying "that can't work because I don't believe/understand it" and saying "that doesn't appear to work because the bulk of the scientific research suggests that it makes no difference".

The suggestion is that kinesio tape works better than other forms of adhesive support tape or strapping because it's special design 'lifts the skin allowing improved blood/lymph flow and increased healing/performance/something-or-other'.

A (very) quick search for kinesio tape seems to provide a lot of small studies or case studies, but the first meta-analysis of these which I found doesn't seem to provide any evidence that the tape is beneficial for athletes. In competition of course, the latest trend may provide some form of psychological boost, and I suspect this is part of Kinesio's marketing strategy to sell what is probably highly expensive sticky tape.


This is the reference by the way, and you can read the abstract on pubmed:

Sports Med. 2012 Feb 1;42(2):153-64. Kinesio taping in treatment and prevention of sports injuries: a meta-analysis of the evidence for its effectiveness.
Williams S, Whatman C, Hume PA, Sheerin K.