UKC

Anyone watch this rather mind blowing programme. They were saying that not only is the universe infinite but that there are many others out there :+(
Given this scale of thinks I cannot believe that there is not life out there somewhere.

We are not alone.

In reply to mypyrex:
There is a pheasant on Mars

In reply to birdie num num: You must be very, very old 'cos there's another thread by Trangia "Old Men CAN think fast"
Like it.

In reply to mypyrex:

3PS will still be E0 whatever.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Maybe, but did you see the bit in Horizon about dark matter? Dark matter accounts for most of the mass of the universe but it can't be seen and the only way to detect it's presence is that it increases gravity.

What if hundreds of careless climbers not wiping their shoes is causing dark matter to build up on the holds of routes like 3PS and the local gravity is going off the scale.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

On 3PS surely dark matter works the other way, and supports the climber, otherwise how could it be ""so easy"" ?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Maybe, the dark matter scraped off at the top of the climb and the extra gravity is pulling people up...

In reply to mypyrex:

no you are already amongst us

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Dark matter accounts for most of the mass of the universe but it can't be seen and the only way to detect it's presence is that it increases gravity.

I convinced an ex work colleague, that I had black light bulbs and when I turned the lights on, the room got darker!

In reply to mypyrex: Not sure I liked the idea of the universe speeding up enough to combust...

In reply to Miss Piggy:

Not sure I liked the idea of the universe speeding up enough to combust...

Can't see it happening anytime soon, but probably preferable to the current weather we're having...

In reply to mypyrex:

An interesting programme, but had some inaccuracies. It's still not proven if the universe is finite or infinite. Also, there's no proof that there are multiple universes; just interesting theories.

In reply to mypyrex:
They were saying that not only is the universe infinite but that there are many others out there :+(
>

There's something not quite right about this sentence...

In reply to mypyrex:
If the universe is infinite, there must be an infinite number of pheasants.

In reply to mypyrex: Space is big. Really big. You think it's a long way to the chemist..........



I'm afraid the presence of pheasants on Mars is strongly disputed. Many believe it to be a duck.

In reply to mypyrex: Sounds like an interesting programme although I'm loathe to watch Horizon these days. Does it do the usual Horizon thing of over dramatization, explaining everything 10 times, using pointless explosions and CGI and then ending before it gets to the good bit because they've run out of time.

I remember watching one about gravity where they tried to interview a scientist. He was an interesting guy but instead of just filming him the producer thought it would be a better idea to film his reflection in a metal ball and periodically cut away to an abandoned warehouse and the sound of screeching metal and objects dropped while they ran an echo filter on the guys voice. Heaven forbid anyone would have the concentration to watch someone talk for 2 mins from one camera angle.

Ben

In reply to Sharp:

I agree with that fully. I REALLY miss the old Open University programs. No effects, no pretence, just the subject taught by those who knew about it.

In reply to James Jackson:

One of the problem with the many flavours of multiple universe theories is that the existence of the other universes is by definition unprovable (since if we could detect them, they would be in our universe). Physics has a bit of an internal issue with this, since it goes against the fundamental principle of testability.

Read Brian Greene's excellent book The Hidden Reality if you want a proper discussion of the various theories.

In reply to James Jackson:

If it's finite then that surely implies that there is "something" beyond it. If there's "nothing" beyond it then it's infinite.(My brain hurts)

In reply to MJ:

I'd have fallen for that one too

In reply to Wonko The Sane:


It should be possible to determine whether it is Duck or Pheasant by listening for the echo.

In reply to mypyrex:

I think finite would just mean it has a definte measurable size whereas infinite would mean it has no measurable size but neither would exclude there being something beyond the universe or not, which is where the likes of string theory and bubble multiverses come into the discussion.

In reply to mypyrex: ...which begs the question why is a 3 bed semi with a small garden is so bloody expensive

In reply to mypyrex:

If there isn't then it's an awful waste of space

In reply to mypyrex:

Erm, no. Space isn't contained within anything, it is everything. So if it's finite then it's meaningless to talk about it being contained within something else.

In reply to James Jackson:


I didn't see the programme, but am curious, how does an infinite universe sit with a defined beginning, re: a big bang?

In reply to mypyrex:

Life as we know it is really just our own concious perception of the atoms about us. I think there is other forms of "life" out there. Just things we are incapable of perceiving. Things which operate on a higher dimension. We live in Flatland.

In reply to Milesy:

Bollocks. If these life forms exist, they exist in LOWER dimensions and will do as they're damn well told.

It always pisses me off that somehow, any other life is looked at as 'higher' than us.

I bet the first life humans find is stromolites or sphagnum moss.

In reply to Old Creaky:

Thank you. But while that maybe helpful for Mars, it won't work on airless objects e.g. the moon. Can you suggest a broader method. Many thanks.

In reply to Wonko The Sane:

Have you ever been to Burnley?

In reply to Mr_Yeti:

...isnt this a quote off a movie? like contact or numbers?

...share the sentiment btw!

In reply to butteredfrog:

I already said 'sphagnum moss' didn't I

In reply to mypyrex: I watched it, I'm not sure , no I am sure, I can't take it in. I guess that why god was invented.

In reply to victim of mathematics:


That's not fully true, since it depends on how one defines "universe". It many multiverse theories other local multiverse "bubbles" can be affecting ours. This would show, for example, as variations in the gravitational constant G. There are even claims (highly preliminary) that such things have been seen, for example in anomalous gravitational motion of distant galaxies. Thus the multiverse model is not "in-principle unprovable".

In reply to Jimbo W:


In the classical Big Bang model it is infinite in space but not in time. So the univerise starts with an infinite extent at time zero. Or, rather, since our models are unlikely to work well at time=zero, the classical model really starts with an infinite spatial extent around about the Planck time (the time of quantum-gravity effects), which is 10^-43 seconds after a notional Big Bang.

In multiverse models, you have a chaotic extent of "bubbles" of different universes extending to infinity. Our universe then starts as a tiny little bubble that quantum-tunnels from a pre-existing multiverse, again starting with a time and scale of the Planck time/length.

In this scenario our universe is not infinite, it has boundaries with other multiverse bubbles, however since our universe is reckoned to have gone through a period of inflation, growing by vast factors owing to exponential expansion, these boundaries will likely be well beyond the observable horizon.

In reply to mypyrex: Lawrence Krauss has some interesting lectures on this (on Youtube)

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Fair enough, some multiverse models are not un-provable. There is even, theoretically a way to prove whether the Everett many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory is correct, but it involves being able to reverse time, which is a very large practical stumbling block.

I guess the point I was trying to make (albeit a little simplistically) was that not having proved anything doesn't prove anything, as it were.

In reply to victim of mathematics:

Certainly it's in the best possible taste!

In reply to Al Evans: Actually I think Coel is God.

In reply to Al Evans:

As the late, great Dave Allen said:
"I'm an Atheist...thank God"

In reply to MJ:
>> I convinced an ex work colleague, that I had black light bulbs

They used to sell them in the small ads at the back of Marvel comics.

In reply to Old Creaky:

Quality.

In reply to Al Evans:

He even climbs like one

In reply to aln:

Tsk.

Fallacy.

In reply to Coel Hellier: Do these bubbles have those lovely rainbow colours if there's a light shining through them?

In reply to Wonko The Sane:

I know.

In reply to mypyrex: And I know how big the universe is.

In reply to aln:
No-one gonnae ask?

In reply to aln: the observable universe is about 90 billion light years across, but what if the 'standard candles' of supernovas aren't that standard at all?

In reply to subalpine: Yeah,it'd be terrible, what if you'd only put enough petrol in the tank for 90billion light years and had to go further?

In reply to subalpine: You're missing the point. I know how big the universe is.

In reply to aln:

I bet you mean 'your universe'

In reply to abseil:


It's Penguins on the Moon - everyone knows that!

In reply to Old Creaky:

Penguins, Mars, Galaxy, Milky Way - its all chocolate out there, isn't it ?