UKC

This is a really odd thing.
At the moment we are getting ready to head into the alps for the winter and so I am doing a lot of indoor gym drills. Fitness is something I appreciate as being an important part of multi-pitch climbing.
A drill will include a half hour warm up before lead climbing progressively harder routes and climbing down again.
Now don't get me wrong, I do combine drills with other things but if theres one thing that has let me down in the past, its pure cardio stamina.

Now here is the puzzling bit. I use a combination of 5 different gyms on a regular basis. Each one offers something different in its route mapping. I have noticed though, that one gym has me hurting all over by the end of the session. The first time it happened I went over what I had done and had I done anything different and I felt that if anything I hadn't worked to my full potential in this gym. The next morning I got up and felt like I had been run over by a tractor. Oh well Ibuprofen is a great thing when required! Maybe I was going down with something?
By the following day I feel fine and so I continue doing my rota of the other four gyms. No problems, no aches and pains and I get that lovely pink sheen on my arms which shows I'm working hard and my lung capacity is feeling fantastic even though I'm pushing it to its limit.
Back to gym number one and exactly the same thing happens again. I end the session early because I'm hurting and I continue to hurt the next day.

So what the hell is going on? has this happened to anyone else?

I should add to that so as not to confuse things.
I have had this discomfort 4 times in all at this gym and I have now made a decision not to use it again. I workout every other day and both days at the weekend but I don't use the same gyms in the same order each week. In other words (problem for me gym) has been the first, middle and last on my weekly rota.

In reply to DemolitionRed:

Are the routes badly set so you're having to climb awkwardly which is causing the aches and pains? Or are they more bouldery in nature?

I find well set routes flow well and you don't ache the next day.

J

In reply to DemolitionRed: Try this stuff for a recovery drink .

You can buy them in Morrisons and other supermarkets.
Stopped me from aching after crossfit.
Don't taste bad either.

http://www.forgoodnessshakes.com/

In reply to DemolitionRed:

Is it that you are using this gym at the same point in the cycle when you need to rest/recover?

Someone else mentioned food - make sure you're eating enough of the right stuff - it sounds like you're doing a lot, and that requires fuel for the activity and fuel for the recovery.

Good luck, and perhaps slow down a bit,

Steve

In reply to DemolitionRed:
I can provide absolutely no comment on why one gym would do it, though the thing about the way the routes are set did get me wondering... however I've found this suppliment to be incredibly good at reducing muscle soreness:
http://www.xenduranceuk.com/index.php/extreme-endurance/1/481/xendurance/P-...

I should point out I didn't use it from a climbing point of view, but from training for and racing IronMan UK last year, and an ultra called the TDS (110km, 7000+m vert) after both of which I had no muscle pain. My feet hurt like hell after the TDS but standing up for 31 hours will do that!

In reply to Ropeboy:
Good point. No, I don't feel the routes flow well and that whoever has set the routes is perhaps a little awkward in his climbing ability but then lets face it, out on the rock we don't always get well flowing routes. There has been many a time when I have rested on an anchor with nowhere to go (not a clue!) and ended up in some static awkward position. I must make a mental note if I take Ibuprofen after such outdoor routes.
I am more dyno than static when it comes to climbing. If a route flows then I don't mess around but move quickly up the rock and I think that is important when doing drill climbing. Static is in my opinion more tiring and awkward.
I think I will have a word with some of the regular climbers at that gym and see what they think.

In reply to Jack Loftus:
Thanks for the link Jack, I will take a proper look at whats in it.

In reply to SteveSBlake:

I am very careful with my diet and make sure I eat complex carbohydrates at least an hour before I climb. During my climbing time I stay well hydrated on plain water but I also take sports gels because I am needing the calories.
After I have warmed down I drink 'Recovermax' and eat a protein based meal within an hour. Sounds a bit fanatical but its something that has worked well for me.
I am very aware of how I climb 24 hours after eating a poor diet.

Perhaps I will cut myself down to 4 days a week for the next few weeks and see how that goes.
Thanks

In reply to DemolitionRed: your circadian rhythm is getting messed up?
eg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Light_and_the_biological_cloc...

In reply to DemolitionRed:

How do you choose the routes you lap?

Could it not be the 'bad' wall:

* grades a bit stiffer
* sets reachier
* sets harder cruxes
* uses less positive footholds requiring more tension
* uses juggier holds inviting bigger pulls
* is a bit steeper
* limits your warm-up in some way
* is colder/hotter/dryer
* has harder/softer padding under the bouldering

or some combination of the above. It could of course just be a coincidence!
jk

In reply to DemolitionRed:

Routes aside is there anything different about it environmentally? Is it hotter? Dustier? Dark and depressing? Do they have a machine in there for turning up gravity?

I used to climb at a small wall in York which is pretty cramped and had terrible air-conditioning (ok...no air conditioning). I always came out of there feeling dreadful, despite not climbing as hard as I do elsewhere.

I don't know if it'd contribute to muscle ache in particular but being stuck in an unhealthy environment for hours at a time can certainly leave you feeling pretty bad the next day.

In reply to Kieran_John:


You mean there are walls WITH air conditioning?

To the OP, does your training partner feel the same?

Are teh routes at this wall much differnt to the others? e.g. more presses and contorsionist in nature than the other walls?

In reply to subalpine:

Wow thanks for this. This is really interesting and not something I knew anything about.

In reply to DemolitionRed: Yup !!!
my complaint has always been with a few of the home route/problem setters(in london) but in particular West Way.
At westway and a few other walls here in london there is a tendency for massive holds,massive reaches.Certainly there has been a moderation of this recently but if i do this form of climbing for to long i get very worn down in my shoulders that has bordered on injury at times and thats with stretching etc.People say,but it has to be hard for you to progress...sure but this style stops me progressing.
I see this style as a 'performance' style if its to tooo long a move with yet again with a shoulder destroying finish i back off...walk on by i go to indoor walls to train not 'perform',well most of the time.
In the last 4 months I have been training on what i found to be an exellent medium-the 55 degree board at the Biscuit factory(dismantled as a training board for now....its got some set probs but in my mind thats not training).
I spent the time making up problems IN THE STYLE I NEEDED,it slapped me around for 5-6 weeks but my body started to adapt.I am now feeling quite strong and the main point is the problems from always following a certain style have gone AND i feel stronger.
What I am saying here is that certain styles of route setting might look good and feel good-if you are into that style(competion style)but mostly i think do not work for 'training'.This style i think shold be in the minority for grades up to V6.
I would always challenge some route setters who have an elitist approach here...that is sometimes they will not seemingly understand that you can actually have steep climbing @6c to 7a+ that is more than just jugs essentially....I could go on and on.Not all of the above is present in the london gymns and I have seen similar as well so its noyt just london
Anyhow i have taken a holiday where i know the climbing is a little less brutal(rrg).Hopefully i will return 'rested' and ready for london again!!!
To demolitionred-Heres to your training...hope you find some receptive staff/like minded folk out there. There are here in london and this has helped me alot

In reply to jkarran:

Yeah I think the wall was re-routed by a 7ft man who has extremely long arms!
I am very conscious that his routes are tougher for me and so I happily downgrade to easier routes that I know I can accomplish. I think I am working harder even on the easier routes than I would normally be doing at other gyms, but I'm subconsciously telling myself I'm not because the grades are less. Wow that makes me sound like a sad person

In reply to DemolitionRed:

Milk and suger mainly.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

My climbing partner doesn't mind the gym but he really isn't into indoor climbing and so belays me most of the time.

In reply to witnessthis:
Interesting reply Witnessthis.
Something suddenly clicked when I read your post and I think we may well of found the route of my problem.
The other gyms have not changed any routes since I started re-training over here, but this one has. My body has adapted to each climb in each gym but then in gym number one they suddenly re-set and continue to re-set the routes. Its as though they are not happy and can't make up their minds what should go where and its thrown me.
I still believe they are pretty crap at route setting and thats why they continue to do it but this gym is probably doing me more good than the other 4 put together because its making me think outside of the box. I certainly come away from it feeling exhausted and my muscles are truly pumped but 24 hours later I'm probably stronger and better for it.


I'm having to laugh because since I started this thread this morning I have decided never to go to that gym again to thinking perhaps I should be using this gym more often!

Glad you had a good climbing holiday.

In reply to DemolitionRed: Points taken I myself go to the walls I critisise and really enjoy myself !!! Just think its good to remind the staff at the wall that this route or that problem might need tweaking a bit...as this would improve it.If they do not listen well thats another issue....most do though.

In reply to Jack Loftus:

Have you tried chocolate milk instead, because it looks to be pretty much the same stuff. If you want to be really picky, swallow a sanatogen too.

In reply to DemolitionRed: strongly suspect high temperature as others have said. I often ache after a session in over warm conditions. Mcleod seems to think its why he's had a lot of injuries and I'm finding a similar pattern.

In reply to brokenbanjo: Not sure what's in it, but it helped me. Also stretching helps ALOT.

In reply to Kieran_John: Sounds like you need to try out the new Red Goat bouldering wall in York - nice place!
Jerry

In reply to Jerry67:

Been a few times already, and I agree

Have you tried varying Practice/Drills ? eg

- Do slabs only one session
- Do Overhangs and jugs only one session
- Boulder only one session

I think you need to Vary your Practice in a more Random way. If you google forms of practice in sport you may see what I mean.

Google - random blocked varied practice - as you may understand more what's a happening. Also, is a half hour warm up too much ? Maybe do more low grade and easy climbs for longer as a warm up, more a 'movement' warm up than overall body warm up.

Just been away for 3 days and managed to do a bit of climbing over at Brimham Rocks and Harrogate climbing wall
The rock felt very windy and exposed which is to be expected at this time of year but I enjoyed the gym.
No aches and pains from this place and it had me working hard.

As far as warming up. If I cycle to my most local gym then that is basically my warmup but if I drive then I will jog on the spot for a few minutes before spending half an hour doing very soft routes or traversing round something simple in the bouldering room.
Cool down is again soft routes and a few yoga stretches.

I did take some electrolytes over the past few days so not sure if this will help at that other gym. Have to wait and see.

In reply to DemolitionRed:

I suspect this is why you ache the next day!