UKC

I'm going to get 5 more quickdraws (I am more than likey going to make these into tradraws). I want something lightweight for trad/multipitch. I already have 10 phantoms 5x18cm 5x25 (one revolver) and 5 prowires (tripled slings, one revolver), after buying more I imagine I would then take them in place of the prowires on all but the longest routes.

Who wins the battle of the carabiners?

In reply to FreshSlate: There is probably not much in it and a lot comes down to personal preferences but FWIW I'd go for the Heliums, especially if you are going to use some in extendable quickdraws.

Several reasons:

First, I think the Wild Country thin dyneema slings on Helium quickdraws are a better design than the one on DMM quickdraws. [I currently have some DMM 18cm slings fitted to hybrid Helium/Spectre draws.]

Second, outside of use in shorter 'dogbone' style quickdraws, where they are most effective, I have never gotten on with 'angled-back' style carabiners in terms of general handling. YMMV.

Finally, it is a fairly minor point, but 'angled-back' style carabiners can have slightly more problems clipping pitons or old bolts that traditional designs.

In reply to FreshSlate: You need 20 quickdraws?! I thought I carried a big rack!

I didn't think the DMM Alpha Lights are available yet so I'm not sure if anyone can answer your question. I guess your best bet is to read the Alpha Trad review and extrapolate to what a slightly smaller version might feel like.

Heliums are a great full sized krab from my limited experience using my mate's from time to time, but they aren't amongst the lightest anymore.

In reply to TobyA:
TobyA is correct that the Alpha light are not out yet, there are some out there with DMM sponsored climbers.

Lights are coming out in spring according to Rob and Ben from DMM.

I have phantoms on my trad rack. And have a set of Alpha sports for my sport rack.

I would say buy more phantoms as I like all my kit to match, but will be upgrading to lights when they come out. I love my Alpha sports and want trad versions of them for my rack.

In reply to FreshSlate:

Alpha Lights aren't available yet. If you're after a comparison of the Helium and Alpha Trad I'd say the Helium is the clear winner, being stronger and lighter whilst still having great handling and clipping action.

For a lightweight trad/multipitch sling 'draw have you considered a Phantom at the gear end and a Helium at the rope end? I've had some set up like that for a few years now and they work a treat (the Helium's clean nose and full size help with handling when extending the 'draw). You can do this relatively cheaply by getting cosmetic second Phantoms from V12 along with a Helium red 5 pack, unless you can get cosmetic second heliums as well (V12 sometimes have those as well as they're made by DMM).

For the gear end of your trad 'draws I would avoid Heliums and Alpha wiregates because that bulky clean nose does get in the way when you're trying to clip awkward gear such as wires in tight spaces, wierd pegs and tat. The Phantom's narrower nose is much better for this and with a 3-sigma rating of 9 kN gate open you don't need to worry about the lack of a shrouded nose.

When Alpha Lights become available they might be worth considering for a better clipping action at the rope end of a standard 'draw, but for the rope end of a sling 'draw the weight saving over a Helium might well be offset by the fiddlier handling due to its smaller size and more steeply hooked basket.

In reply to FreshSlate: In spring? Ah thought they were due out pretty soon! Might make the decision easy

Good point Toby A, I rarely need this many, and on outcrops about 6 max. But on long multipitch at the gunks I have had to run it out sometimes and made a 16th draw out of spare biners. One pitch was 160 feet so thats gear every 10 feet, or a bit longer with some clipped into the belay. Sometimes i was using two draws on one piece of gear etc. For the u.k I guess this would mostly mean a bit of an upgrade and more flexibility (just grabbing 10 trippled draws instead of canabalising dogbones everytime). I'd get two or three but 5 is easier to count.

In reply to FreshSlate: hey pacman, thats a great idea. will really look into that. Phantoms are great for clipping nuts.

In reply to TobyA:


What do you mean? Aren't Heliums still the lightest full size clean nose 'biners that money can buy?

Funny, the Heliums must be about ten years old now and they're still better krabs - i.e. lighter, stronger, and with comparable or better handling - than anything else comparable produced to this day (or at least the ones that I've come across; DMM Shield, BD Hoodwire, Petzl Ange and DMM Alpha Trad).

In reply to pacman: I've probably just remembered their weight wrong then!