UKC

Just a quick question - I did this route today and ended up traversing out onto the arete too early and onto the upper crux of The Plum. Does anyone know if that is one of the several undescribed variations listed on the UKC log i.e the Treemudrock/ Duff Plum VS? Or is it something else?! It was great fun, whatever!

In reply to Tomber:

No, it isn't any of the named variations. Probably around HVS 5aish. I imagine it'd be a decent combination, but not as good as doing all of The Plum!

In reply to Tomber:

Quite a few people do this - We were on the Plum last year we got behind a couple who had done just what you describe ! there is a nice move back onto the slab I seem to remember - arguable whether it is actually 'a crux' on the Plum though.

In reply to Tomber: The instructions in the Paul Williams guide are quite specific that you should not traverse out too early and tells you why!

I was Tomber's second on this pitch - we had the North Wales Classics guidebook which does show the route well but the description isn't that clear to those who haven't been there and seen it before. The way we went seemed quite logical from below and was a bit polished so quite an easy mistake to make!

A guy climbing further down the crag shouted to me that we had just done the upper crux of The Plum, I asked him if it wasn't below this point but he replied 'yeah but there are actual holds down there!'. Didn't think it was an E1 5b myself though, i'd agree with the HVS 5a grade mentioned above.

I thought i'd add the route so people can add the tick to their logbook at a reasonable grade. Think it is a quality line too, not sure i'd be up for doing the rest of an E1 5b at the moment, so at least HVS leaders can get a taste with this one. Went with Too Much Curry, HVS 5a.

In reply to Stuart Hurworth:


Whilst I understand your logic, the desire to name and log every possible variation of existing routes is a bit tiresome. The line you did has no independent climbing, and avoids much of the best bits of the parent routes. If you can persuade the editors of the next guide that it warrants a separate entry then I'll put it in the logbooks, but until then I'm not inclined to accept it as a new entry.

In reply to victim of mathematics:

Fair enough.

I would say that it does include some independent climbing but it is only a few metres worth and although good it isn't the highlight of the route. However there are other routes around with little or no additional climbing, alternative starts or simply linking up of two good pitches on different climbs.

I have no experience of The Plum but I would certainly say that the route we went is better than the Micah Finish - which is excellent in itself but surely the best part is the exposed arête finish, which this route includes and I would say improves upon with the difficult move?

Do you not think it is worth including the route under whatever name simply because many people climb it? (it's probably a very popular route!)

At least I put a description unlike some of the other offerings!! What is Treemudrock or Finish of Moments for example?!

In reply to Stuart Hurworth:

Like I said, I'm going with the guidebook writers on this one. If you can persuade them that it warrants a separate entry, then I'll add it to the database. Isn't the independent climbing basically a couple of metres of walking along a ledge (assuming you've taken the right-hand variation on Christmas Curry, which I think most people doing the Micah Eliminate do)?


This may be true, although your combination is rather unbalanced in terms of difficulty, and does miss some really nice sustained 4a climbing on the section of the Micah Eliminate that you eliminated (for want of a better word).

I guess the main point is that if you're capable of the moves on The Plum below where the Micah Eliminate joins the arete, then you really ought to get on The Plum itself, which is brilliant, and fairly low in the grade with the start as described in the latest guide.


I've never seen anybody on it. A fair few people might do it by accident, or back off it when the realise they must have gone wrong somewhere, but I can't imagine anybody (or almost nobody) would actively set out to climb the combination you did if it were in the guide. Which is why I don't think it warrants an entry. And imagine the potential for traffic jams with people taking 3 independent routes to the top 10m of the arete!


Both are described in the definitive guide. UKC is hardly a substitute for that, and I'm not inclined to spend hours of my life either stealing the CC's route descriptions wholesale, or making up my own for no tangible reward. Be my guest if you want to add some descriptions yourself though...

By the way, in case you're wondering, the Treemudrock Finish is both hard and a bit pants. I haven't done the Finish Of Moments.