UKC

Has anyone used one of these? They look quite convenient but I imagine they might be a bit of a pain to carry.

In reply to GridNorth:
I'm certain there is a youtube with stevie haston demonstrating it. One is on my shopping anyway, they look great <as most simple things are!>
At work now, can't access youtube soz

In reply to blanchie14c: Thanks for that, just watched it. It's a bit pricey but looks easier and more convenient than a cordlette. I might have to add one to my ice climbing rack.

In reply to GridNorth: I have been using it for the past two years and I find it very convenient on bellay stations or when abseiling. I use it mainly for ice climbing and winter mountaineering. Have been carrying it around my shoulders or nicely twisted up on a back gear loop of my harness..

In reply to GridNorth: They are basically indispensable once you have got used to having one!

In reply to GridNorth:

I've seen people with them larks-footed through the belay loop, then wrapped around the waist. Seems fairly tidy.

In fact, I've been wondering about one myself after watching the Stevie Haston vid a while ago. Is it long enough to equalize a winter anchor, or only good for perfectly placed bolts?

In reply to GridNorth:
Safety is only a pain when you need it and don;t have it. I have been using the Metolius Pas equivalent for the past 4 years. I use them on sport, trad, and multi pitch. These are the way to go for a cow's tail that you can back up easily. You can use them for anchor building more so on bolted anchors and the longer version would be more versatile for this. Great for abseiling as you can keep your device one loop up and clip your prussic to the belay loop, a safer and more comfort way to abseil. For mountaineering I would leave it behind and rely on 10/12mm general loop slings to cover most of your anchoring and backup as weight and versatility becomes more of an issue. They are a big step in front of the old daisy chain for general climbing. Not sure if you have seen the video by Black Diamond on daisy chains but it is pretty scary that this is so easily possible unless you use two carabiners.
vimeo.com/14679471#

In reply to GridNorth:
I'm a bit old fashioned. I was always told never clip krabs to keabs and slings to slings.
also always link slings together via krabs as the shock loading or friction could damage eachother. (unless your abseiling off tat as it being used as disposable kit)

I use Dyneania daisy chains which are the basic design shown in the Black Diamond video.

The possibility of bar tack breaking in the BD video is unlikely, and if the bar tacks were to break, you would be in the same brown stuff if they broke on the Grivel Dasiy chain.

In reply to Richard Phelan:


Not so.
In a regular daisy chain the bar tacked loops can be rated as low as 2kn.
With the grivel version each loop is rated to the full 23kn.

In reply to GridNorth: I wasn't really considering it for use as a cows tail but rather as a replacement for a cordlette and particularly for ice climbing in the alps.

In reply to GridNorth:
I think you should stick to looped slings as the grivel and metolius are primarily designed as a cow's tail that can incorporate a belay anchor. By doing this second task it has limitations. Separate looped slings will be lighter and a lot more versatile in setting up different scenario anchors.

In reply to GridNorth:

The Grivel appears to be mostly dyneema and will probably break in a factor-2 fall test like the ones conducted by DMM. The Metolius PAS uses sling material that appears to be more balanced in the dyneema/nylon ratio and so may be better when it comes to withstanding extreme shock loads. But the Sterling Chain Reactor is the same thing done up in nylon. It will withstand several factor-2 falls, and is cheaper (at least in the U.S.).

http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/155018/Chain/_/Chain_Reactors

In reply to GridNorth:

Not sure how that could work, you shouldn't clip a daisy chain to multiple bit of gear - it's a stop-gap until you've built a belay, not a replacement for one.

In reply to iksander: You should check all the facts before jumping to conclusions.

Check this out: youtube.com/watch?v=VlY0h3-vsNo&

In reply to GridNorth: Yep, you're right I'd never seen one used like that before

In reply to GridNorth:

I looked at all of them and went for the Sterling Ropes Chain Reactor because it's nylon as opposed to dyneema. I got it via Amazon UK for £25.47 including delivery from USA. It's just arrived and looks excellent - light and supple. Spells retirement for my home made cow's tails

In reply to Martin Bennett: I looked at that but it doesn't look long enough to equalise anchors and seems to be more of a replacement for a cows tail. The Grivel one looks more versatile for what I want.

In reply to GridNorth:

Look again: Sterling makes a long model which, at 160 cm, is 40 cm longer than the Grivel.

And if you want something like this for equalizing anchors (I think it debatable whether such a special-purpose gadget is even remotely optimal) there is also the Metolius Ultimate Daisy, 114 cm and so about the same size as the Grivel, but with much smaller chain links (twelve vs. eight for the Grivel) and so much more finely adjustable. Not nylon, however.

http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/ultimate_daisy.html

In reply to GridNorth: Ended up sending away for one of these. The Epicentre are doing them for £25. I'm not disappointed, it works well and can be used as both a cows tail and an equalising aid. It's just the right length for a convenient carry especially aroung the shoulder and the loops do not intrude too much. I've yet to use it in anger however. Rather than larks footing it around the belay loop I'm considering using a krab so that I can swap between cows tail mode and equaliser easily.

In reply to GridNorth:



To me that sounds like an accident waiting to happen. You might end up carrying the daisy not attached to the belay loop, then deploy it forgetting its not attached. You might be better extending the daisy with a 60cm sling and lark's foot at the harness end. It should then end up long enough to play whichever role you want, without having to ever undo it. In fact, you can get it to be both your daisy to the first bolt and the equaliser to the second for the reverso. Neat.

In reply to David Coley: Whilst I disagree that it's an accident waiting to happen, I think that is over egging it a little, your idea does have some merit and I might have a little play around with that. Thank you.

In reply to GridNorth:

Seems like the wrong tool for that job.

I'd use a cordelette for that job. 5m of 7mm cord with a figure of eight on the bite tied on each. Cheap and light so you won't give a second thought when it comes to using it for v thread.

FWIW I used to have Grivel Daisy chain, which I bought in a fit of gear freakery, and used as a lanyard. They work well until you realize that a clove hitch on the rope works betters and you are always carrying one.

Remember what it says in Climbing Ice, "If you can climb you don't need gadgets. If you can't climb gadgets won't help you."

HTH

In reply to Captain Gear: I have had a chance to play with it now so for anyone interested here are my thoughts on the item. I have very little aid climbing experience so any comments need to be considered in that context.

As a replacement for a standard daisy chain there is no contest, this wins hands down. Used as a cows tail it is a little more bulky to store around the harness and if all you want is occasional useage in that way a 60cm sling is probably better. What is does give you however is more flexibilty because of the variety of lengths available and no weakening because of any knots.

As an equaliser it is easier, quicker and more convenient to use than a cordlette and probably does a better job at actually equalising but I would only carry it in situations where I am likley to use a direct belay. I would say that it is considerably better in this respect and carried round the shoulder, hardly noticeable. The fact that you would hesitate to cut it up as tat is not a consideration for me as I always carry rope and tape for that purpose.

If you are in the habit of using direct belays it is well worth the £25 that I paid for mine.

I'm not going to comment on the stupidity of the gadgets comment unless you climb solo and barefooted with no gear.

In reply to GridNorth:

Does it? For aid climbing it has less pockets than a standard daisy so therefore is less adjustable, when using a fifi. Where would you use a daisy chain outside of aid climbing/instructing/jumaring situation?


Why would you use a cows tail when you can clip into the anchor with the rope and a clove hitch. Much safer IMO and totally adjustable.

Really? How?


But it is an extra piece of gear that only does one job, whereas a 120cm sling can be use to equalize belays and for slinging spikes, threads ect.


Why would you carry two things when one will do the same job?

If you say so...

In reply to Captain Gear: Well I did specifically add a caveate for aid climbing. I also made the point that it is useful for use with a direct belay rather than the standard UK method. It's quicker because you don't have to tie a knot and adjust it accordingly. It doesn't only do one job it does two. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.