/ NEWS: VIDEO: Silbergeier with Nina & Cedric

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UKC News - on 27 Dec 2012
Nina Caprez on the perfect limestone of Silbergeier in the Rätikon, Switzerland., 4 kb2 July last year, Nina Caprez became the first woman to repeat Beat Kammerlander's Silbergeier at R├Ątikon, Switzerland. This is the video about the ascent.
Jack Geldard made an interview with Nina at the time, but in short she says about the ascent that:

The first 8b pitch felt like a 7a warm-up...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67700
Flashman - on 27 Dec 2012
Fun video, can't believe I watched the whole thing. *Maybe* it would have been ok to tone it down a bit in a few spots to show more of the gravity and quality of the climbing - which looked mental in places - but I guess it's nice to see people (video people) doing something a bit different. And Caprez and Lachat are very entertaining subjects.
I did notice one error: at the end that's a Burger King that Lachat abandons Caprez on the descent to go and visit, not a McDonalds. Also that Swiss Burger King serves Red Bull, which is maybe not an error but wow.
jon on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to Flashman:

Hmmm, there's another error - but not as serious as the MacDo/Burger King catastrophe. The subtitles seem to credit Pietro dal Pra with the first ascent. As far as I know he made the fourth ascent.
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:

Hmm - personally I don't really get the look-at-me-I'm-a-dick style, but some people like it, I suppose. Luckily the climbing made up for it.

jcm
dr_botnik - on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News: Thought that was very watchable! had me right till the end! although; there is some bad belaying demonstrated in the vid, i wonder how long before the UKC crowd get fired up over it lol
Chris Craggs - on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:

Nice vid and great looking route, a nice change from the usual Euro-cave escapades.


Chris
Dean177 - on 28 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:
I could barely watch. The movie would have been vastly improved if id didnt have cedric in it!
Duncan Campbell - on 28 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News: This made me very happy in my pants. Anyone know what Silbergeier means in English, if there is a meaning in English?

DC
eugeneth - on 28 Dec 2012
In reply to Duncan Campbell: Silver vulture!!! Pretty swish looking place to climb!
henwardian - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News: Loved this video. I guess the over-the-top slapstick could be an aquired taste but personally I laughed the whole way through and enjoyed it.
Climbing looks absolutely amazing and for sport some ridiculous run-outs. If there are easier routes of that kind of rock quality it would look to be an awesome place to go.
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AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to henwardian:
>for sport some ridiculous run-outs.

How is this a sport route?

Sparsely bolted, ground up, on the lead. Afaik that would make it a perfectly valid trad climb in e.g. the US of A.

flaneur - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:

Anyone else find Nina and Cedric reminds them of these two?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXeGhIJWG5I
Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:
>
> Sparsely bolted, ground up, on the lead. Afaik that would make it a perfectly valid trad climb in e.g. the US of A.

No, it makes it a sparsely bolted sports climb. (And the style in which they climbed it has no bearing on it - obviously)

Fraser on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:

What a really enjoyable film that was. I even think plenty of non-climbers would get something from it.
AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to AlanLittle)
> [...]
>
> No, it makes it a sparsely bolted sports climb.

The point I am making, which you appear to be wilfully ignoring, is that the parochial British definition of the "trad" / "sport" divide is not the only one.

British definition something like: no bolts = "trad", all bolt protected = "sport" unless it's on slate then it might be "trad" depending on how far apart the bolts are. How the bolts got there is immaterial.

US definition as I understand it (I have only climbed in the US once so there may be nuances I'm missing): bolts placed on the rope from above = "sport", no bolts = "trad", bolts placed on the lead without hanging on gear = also definitely "trad", bolts placed on the lead whilst hanging on gear as I assume Kammerlander did = dunno, "gray" area?

Swiss definition - the one that actually applies here = ???
Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Fraser:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> What a really enjoyable film that was.

Yes. Despite myself, I even found myself warming to Mr Lachat.
Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> The point I am making, which you appear to be wilfully ignoring, is that the parochial British definition of the "trad" / "sport" divide is not the only one.

But it is the only sensible one.

> US definition as I understand it (I have only climbed in the US once so there may be nuances I'm missing): bolts placed on the rope from above = "sport", no bolts = "trad", bolts placed on the lead without hanging on gear = also definitely "trad", bolts placed on the lead whilst hanging on gear as I assume Kammerlander did = dunno, "gray" area?

Defining whether a finished "product" is a sport or trad route depending on how it is "produced" is pretty silly when you think about it; two identical routes, one sport, the other trad. But then that's the USA for you!

An arbitrary distance between bolts when a route mysteriously morphs from sport to trad is also pretty daft.

> Swiss definition - the one that actually applies here = ???

Bolts seem so unquestioned in Switzerland, I suspect they may not have a definition.

AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
>
> Defining whether a finished "product" is a sport or trad route depending on how it is "produced" is pretty silly when you think about it; two identical routes, one sport, the other trad.

But the routes done in the different styles tend to be rather non-identical. I don't think you'd find many people calling the Bachar-Yerian a "sport" route.

> An arbitrary distance between bolts when a route mysteriously morphs from sport to trad is also pretty daft.

Is it? Are Poetry Pink or Massambula "sport" routes? I don't think you'd get many takers. Goose Creature, Colossus, or Heading The Shot? Firmly in the grey area. Geordie War Cry? Definitely sport.

> Bolts seem so unquestioned in Switzerland, I suspect they may not have a definition.

Silbergeier certainly isn't "plaisir".

Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> But the routes done in the different styles tend to be rather non-identical.

True, but what if they are not?

> I don't think you'd find many people calling the Bachar-Yerian a "sport" route. Are Poetry Pink or Massambula "sport" routes? I don't think you'd get many takers.

I was really thinking of sytematically bolted routes (however spaced), not routes with just the odd bolts at critical points (these are neither one thing nor the other). Not a fan myself.

> Silbergeier certainly isn't "plaisir".

Now that is a term I really dislike!

AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

> > "plaisir"
> Now that is a term I really dislike!

I sympathise, but I actually think it's quite useful if you assume - as the Swiss do - that there will be bolts. "Plaisir" tells us that for some hypothetical average, solid at the grade leader fear is unlikely to be a major factor in success or failure on the route. Whereas on non-plaisir, whether the gear is bolts or something else (or both) head games play a significant role.

I find this quite a useful distinction. If I'm climbing near my limit five metres out from my gear I don't mind if the gear is a bolt or a good friend placement or a solid #8 rock. I know it's going to hold but I still don't want to fall.

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