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In reply to andy:
Had forgotten this was on, must set the sky+ tomorrow!
Saw a stat which said Froome's never one a stage race which surprised me a bit. I'm still not sure that Sky aren't going to back Wiggo over Froome for the tdf in the end
Had forgotten this was on, must set the sky+ tomorrow!
Saw a stat which said Froome's never one a stage race which surprised me a bit. I'm still not sure that Sky aren't going to back Wiggo over Froome for the tdf in the end
In reply to balmybaldwin: not sure if it's on live - Sky have an hour long programme on Monday. And highlights are on eurosport now.
In reply to andy:
So the question is... Is Wiggo just using it as a training exercise or is this a shift to get Froome up to the head of Sky?
So the question is... Is Wiggo just using it as a training exercise or is this a shift to get Froome up to the head of Sky?
In reply to Rampikino: It's both. Wiggo can competently lead the team and probably will again at the Giro and some of the 1 week stage races. Even if Wiggo is team leader at the tour, Froomey needs the experience leading so if Wiggo loses time or crashes he can take over. They need both of them to be able to lead in every race they are in so one can back up the other if they need to. Plus Wiggo is obviously training in this race, so definitely both. I expect he will go for the Giro so he is going to stay out of trouble right now. Whether or not he also leads at the tour can't really be read from Froomey leading now. Wiggo needed all the experience leading he could get last year to build up to the tour, now they can concentrate on bringing Froomey up as Wiggo can already do it.
In reply to Escher:
A head-to-head in the tour would be incredible, but is that too risky for the team?
A head-to-head in the tour would be incredible, but is that too risky for the team?
In reply to Rampikino: I really can't work out what they will do in that respect. The team versus individual dynamic has a lot of tour precedent (Hinault/Le Mond, Roche and other - forgotten their name) and Froomeys gf was having a right whine last year, so Froomey wants it despite his PR front IMO. But Sky is a bit of a different beast. I think they will probably have to unite against Contador, but in the heat of a big mountain stage who knows! Anything could happen. Froomey could attack Wiggo if he's looking weak and pretend his radio wasnt working or something. Would love to be a confidant of both right now, behind the scenes will be telling. Gonna be fascinating for sure, along with the Griepel/Cav show, and Sagan. Excited already! Bring on the classics.
In reply to balmybaldwin:
I think that you'll find that Froome has won very little
> (In reply to andy)
>
> Had forgotten this was on, must set the sky+ tomorrow!
>
> Saw a stat which said Froome's never one a stage race which surprised me a bit. I'm still not sure that Sky aren't going to back Wiggo over Froome for the tdf in the end
>
> Had forgotten this was on, must set the sky+ tomorrow!
>
> Saw a stat which said Froome's never one a stage race which surprised me a bit. I'm still not sure that Sky aren't going to back Wiggo over Froome for the tdf in the end
I think that you'll find that Froome has won very little
In reply to Rampikino:
Am I out of touch here? I thought Sky/Wiggins have already stated that Froome is likely to be team leader at the TdF this year?
Am I out of touch here? I thought Sky/Wiggins have already stated that Froome is likely to be team leader at the TdF this year?
In reply to andy: Done Contador proper good today. Responded calmly to all attacks, beat him in the sprint. Extended his lead
In reply to Monk: Sky, Wiggo and Froome said he was and Wiggo said he would support Froome. Then later Wiggo said he actually hadn't made his mind up and might go for the tour again, he has repeated since that he wants the Giro but still isn't sure about the Tour. Could be Wiggo on the wind up, maybe it isn't settled within Sky. Maybe they are playing mind games with the other teams and riders. Maybe it's too soon to pick a team leader as it's months away. But after saying Froome would definitely lead Wiggo has definitely muddied the waters since. Personally I think it is down to Brad's motivation.
He says he is finding it difficult to motivate himself the same for a second tour win. But if he is up for it I think they will let him defend with Froome as backup. Its the prerogative of the title holder. Anyway interesting times with the parcours. If they pick Wiggo will Froome be able to resist?
He says he is finding it difficult to motivate himself the same for a second tour win. But if he is up for it I think they will let him defend with Froome as backup. Its the prerogative of the title holder. Anyway interesting times with the parcours. If they pick Wiggo will Froome be able to resist?
In reply to Escher: Wiggins doesn't seem nearly as up for it this year. Who wins the tour then says you know what maybe I'll go for the giro instead next year? Strike me as a lack of motivation. Obviously you cant read too much into the ToO as froome will probably get some good form for the spring then knock it off end of April/May to start building again, Wiggins doesn't want to be on form before May.
Obviously if Froome had more sense he'd have left Sky in Autumn '11 and already have a grand tour under his belt, but money motivates too it would seem.
Obviously if Froome had more sense he'd have left Sky in Autumn '11 and already have a grand tour under his belt, but money motivates too it would seem.
In reply to Escher:
Cycling tactics have changed since the Hinualt/Lemond days, or when Roche won the Giro, and I don't think you can win a big race without support from the team.
Sky in particular have a very strong team ethic and only a fool would ignore team orders - you have to earn the loyalty of your team-mates if you want them to work for you.
Sky will have made their plans for the season and it does look like Plan A is Wiggo for the Giro and Froome for the Tour. Wiggo has differant schedule to the previous two years and Froome is being given the leaders duties at Oman (and proving he's worthy of it).
But obviously things may change - if Froome's illness comes back for example. And of course they may bluffing, but I don't think that's Brailsford style.
> Froomey could attack Wiggo if he's looking weak and pretend his radio wasnt working or something.
Cycling tactics have changed since the Hinualt/Lemond days, or when Roche won the Giro, and I don't think you can win a big race without support from the team.
Sky in particular have a very strong team ethic and only a fool would ignore team orders - you have to earn the loyalty of your team-mates if you want them to work for you.
Sky will have made their plans for the season and it does look like Plan A is Wiggo for the Giro and Froome for the Tour. Wiggo has differant schedule to the previous two years and Froome is being given the leaders duties at Oman (and proving he's worthy of it).
But obviously things may change - if Froome's illness comes back for example. And of course they may bluffing, but I don't think that's Brailsford style.
In reply to Chateauneuf du Boeuf:
Would he ? Which one ? Even if he hadn't been working for Wiggo, and had a strong team supporting him, could he have taken enough time to make up for the losses in the TTs. And even if fresh could he have beaten the Spaniards in the vuelta, given the nature of the route ?
I'd say he has done the sensible thing by staying loyal and now will reap the benefits over the next few years.
> Obviously if Froome had more sense he'd have left Sky in Autumn '11 and already have a grand tour under his belt, but money motivates too it would seem.
Would he ? Which one ? Even if he hadn't been working for Wiggo, and had a strong team supporting him, could he have taken enough time to make up for the losses in the TTs. And even if fresh could he have beaten the Spaniards in the vuelta, given the nature of the route ?
I'd say he has done the sensible thing by staying loyal and now will reap the benefits over the next few years.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
what about Team GB hiding their "Magic" wheels at the Olympics?
> (In reply to Escher)
> [...]
> ... And of course they may bluffing, but I don't think that's Brailsford style.
> [...]
> ... And of course they may bluffing, but I don't think that's Brailsford style.
what about Team GB hiding their "Magic" wheels at the Olympics?
In reply to balmybaldwin: That wasn't bluffing, just winding up the French.
In reply to Chris the Tall: I think he'd have beaten the Spaniards fresh yes, its amazing that he did what he did considering he'd been on red hot form since Le Dauphine. Its also worth remember Froome was a major asset to Wiggins on the hills at Le TDF. I think he'd have beaten him if he was on a good team.
In reply to Chateauneuf du Boeuf: it's impossible to know though, isn't it? The only definite is Wiggins took about 3:30(?) out of Froome in the TTs. In the mountains if he hadn't had Froome he'd have had someone else. Froome wouldn't necessarily have had Porte, Rogers et al. I think to assume that because Froome looked a bit stronger once or twice he'd have taken all that time back is stretching it a bit. The course suited Wiggo so Sky chose the right leader - i'm sure they'll do the sensible thing this year and support Froome.
In reply to andy:
More to the point it's a bit unfair to say that someone staying loyal to the team that has developed their talent is "motivated by money".
Or that by playing the loyal lieutenant in one tour in order to earn the backing of one of the strongest teams in the next is somehow lacking in sense.
More to the point it's a bit unfair to say that someone staying loyal to the team that has developed their talent is "motivated by money".
Or that by playing the loyal lieutenant in one tour in order to earn the backing of one of the strongest teams in the next is somehow lacking in sense.
In reply to andy:
Well duh!
> (In reply to Chateauneuf du Boeuf) it's impossible to know though, isn't it?
Well duh!
In reply to Chris the Tall: Come off it, if your second place in the tour to your team mate then your in the wrong team. Also Sky didn't nurture Froome, he came through a variety of teams before Sky.
In reply to Chateauneuf du Boeuf:
You'd hardly have picked him as a potential Tour winner when he was a Barloworld now would you.
But the point is that he has shown loyalty and patience - qualities in short supply in the sporting world - and now stands to reap the rewards
You'd hardly have picked him as a potential Tour winner when he was a Barloworld now would you.
But the point is that he has shown loyalty and patience - qualities in short supply in the sporting world - and now stands to reap the rewards
In reply to Chris the Tall:
With a palmares like that I'm not sure that teams were queuing up for him, but he has developed into a super GT rider.
> (In reply to Chateauneuf du Boeuf)
> You'd hardly have picked him as a potential Tour winner when he was a Barloworld now would you.
>
> But the point is that he has shown loyalty and patience - qualities in short supply in the sporting world - and now stands to reap the rewards
> You'd hardly have picked him as a potential Tour winner when he was a Barloworld now would you.
>
> But the point is that he has shown loyalty and patience - qualities in short supply in the sporting world - and now stands to reap the rewards
With a palmares like that I'm not sure that teams were queuing up for him, but he has developed into a super GT rider.
In reply to Chateauneuf du Boeuf:
I wasn't the one saying "I think he'd have won in another team" - my point was that to extrapolate that he'd have won because he looked stronger than Wiggins on a couple of occasions is simplistic - if he'd been in another team it wouldn't just have been him and Wiggins up there at the pointy end - Sky would have found another climber to support Wiggo, and given the fact no other team managed to control the race like Sky did it's unlikely Froome would have had the support Wiggins did either. Mr Nibbles and Mr Cuddles certainly struggled to impose themselves because of a lack of quality in their team - there's no certainty that Froome would have done any better. And he'd still have lost 3 minutes in the TTs.
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> Well duh!
> [...]
>
> Well duh!
I wasn't the one saying "I think he'd have won in another team" - my point was that to extrapolate that he'd have won because he looked stronger than Wiggins on a couple of occasions is simplistic - if he'd been in another team it wouldn't just have been him and Wiggins up there at the pointy end - Sky would have found another climber to support Wiggo, and given the fact no other team managed to control the race like Sky did it's unlikely Froome would have had the support Wiggins did either. Mr Nibbles and Mr Cuddles certainly struggled to impose themselves because of a lack of quality in their team - there's no certainty that Froome would have done any better. And he'd still have lost 3 minutes in the TTs.
In reply to andy:
Froome will be team leader at the TdF on the proviso he maintains his current form. Brad will be Sky's contingency should anything go wrong during the race itself, having come off his number 1 priority this year, the Giro. After Oman you won't see Brad and Froome ride together for Sky until the TdF.
Froome will be team leader at the TdF on the proviso he maintains his current form. Brad will be Sky's contingency should anything go wrong during the race itself, having come off his number 1 priority this year, the Giro. After Oman you won't see Brad and Froome ride together for Sky until the TdF.
In reply to stevez:
Are they not both riding the LBL?
> (In reply to andy)
>
> Froome will be team leader at the TdF on the proviso he maintains his current form. Brad will be Sky's contingency should anything go wrong during the race itself, having come off his number 1 priority this year, the Giro. After Oman you won't see Brad and Froome ride together for Sky until the TdF.
>
> Froome will be team leader at the TdF on the proviso he maintains his current form. Brad will be Sky's contingency should anything go wrong during the race itself, having come off his number 1 priority this year, the Giro. After Oman you won't see Brad and Froome ride together for Sky until the TdF.
Are they not both riding the LBL?
In reply to Mike Highbury:
Sorry. Provisionally yes they are.
> (In reply to stevez)
> [...]
>
> Are they not both riding the LBL?
> [...]
>
> Are they not both riding the LBL?
Sorry. Provisionally yes they are.
In reply to andy:
Looks like Froome has finished the job off - it may be early in the season but its a pretty impressive list of riders he's beaten
Looks like Froome has finished the job off - it may be early in the season but its a pretty impressive list of riders he's beaten
In reply to stevez:
That would be my guess too.
> Froome will be team leader at the TdF on the proviso he maintains his current form. Brad will be Sky's contingency should anything go wrong during the race itself
That would be my guess too.
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