UKC

.....that is:

Lightweight
Warm

Then would you recommend with or without a hood?

oh and so far it is between these three but open to suggestions:

Rab Generator Alpine
Mountain Equipment Fitzroy
Montane Flux

Cheers,

AT

In reply to An Triubhas: When I was buying, I wanted the Rab Photon jacket. Really warm but a bit bigger than others. I ended up getting the Montane Flux, which having tested on the plateau of Glenshee at close to midnight last night... I highly recommend.

In reply to David Barratt:

I'll second the Flux. Great piece of kit.

In reply to David Barratt:

Thank you.

Did you try a few jackets on? I have read Dan Bailey's review of them all on here but am wondering what do you think of the cut of the Flux?

Were you walking in it last night or just sat stationary?

In reply to An Triubhas: Very happy with my Rab Generator Alpine.

In reply to An Triubhas: Rab Generator Alpine was my choice. Hood rolled down as I don't generally like using a hood unless conditions are really bad, but gives me the option to use. I do find it warm though when walking if the temp is not below zero. Only thing I don't like is the see through nature of the outer pertex fabric - any contrast in the internal construction can be seen ie the outline of all the pockets, internal stitching, lining, etc. Mine is in red with grey lining and probably a black one would stop that all been seen!

In reply to An Triubhas: Doesn't it all rather depend on what you want it for? Some will be good a super warm midlayer or windproof warm outer for when you are on the move, others as lightweight belay jackets/around camp type of jackets etc.

In reply to An Triubhas:

If you can find one to try one, I'd suggest having a look at the Montane Ice Guide as another alternative. I've given the other three a go, and ditched them all in favour of it.

In reply to An Triubhas: As you'll see under skiing, I was stationary waiting to be rescued (stupid navigation error). I find the cut it wide enough that you can chuck it on easily over other stuff. Zips up nice and snug. I bought it while working in an outdoors shop so tried on many.

To stay in the bag as a belay jacket but then to walk in when the weather goes cold as in zero and below.

weight to warmth ratio is a must.

AT

In reply to An Triubhas:


well everything has a weight to warmth ratio! I presume you mean a *good* one? In which case what about down? No primaloft jacket will have a better warmth to weight ratio...

In reply to An Triubhas:

agree with toby - what for?

even then, id say WHEN for? polartec has new insulation coming onto the market for next autumn. it may be worth just getting a cheap synthetic till then.

In reply to TobyA:

down isn't great for UK wet weather!

In reply to An Triubhas:

Outdoor Research Chaos. It is a pretty good spec jacket 100 fill on body and 60 in the (good) hood, Gore shell. I have one and think it is excellent only: 120 quid from Rock bottom too! It fits quite large.

In reply to ice.solo:

Also agree with I.S. the primaloft/TNF Thermo ball looks very interesting indeed!

In reply to andic:

Thermoball may/may not appear. Ive been wearing it and it has issues in some ways. Very good for some things, less so for others.
Polartec has something else that will excite consumers. Worth keeping an eye out.

In reply to An Triubhas:


I used a down jacket for a belay jacket in Scotland for a couple of years and it was great, and in the same way don't over estimate how good primaloft is when wet. It might be better than soaked down, but that doesn't make it 'good'. If it's raining hard your best bet will always be a shell with fleece under it. In drizzly weather, I guess a synthetic is better, but down jackets made with good water resistant shell materials are surprisingly good too - and that's leaving aside these new hydrophobic down jackets which look interesting.

Again, it all sort of depends on what you plan doing with the jacket.

In reply to An Triubhas:

I recently had my Rab photon jacket stolen and have replaced it with a North Ridge (Go Outdoors own brand I believe), Couloir jacket. It seems to have been copied from the Rab, with only a very minor difference on the cuffs that I can see, but was significantly cheaper when I bought it and seems to be performing well.

In reply to An Triubhas: Save yourself some wonga but get a jacket made from Primaloft 1:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Keela-Belay-Advance-Jacket-Black/dp/B002DPUB4A/ref=...

Rab generator - super bit of kit

In reply to An Triubhas: I'm more than happy with my Montane Flux. I did tear it when I ran into some thorns sledding though...

That new Polartec Alpha insulation isn't a direct competitor to primaloft so probably not worth holding out for. Most of the demo jackets I saw it was more being used in a warm softshell, replacement fleece or thick base layer. Usually with powerdry as well.

Montane Prism!!!! good prism too!

In reply to An Triubhas:

Just in case you missed this...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=5232

In reply to TobyA:


Like Toby says, the type of synthetic jacket you get does depend on what you are going to do with it. Although none of us could afford a different one for each use.

For example RAB have the

Generator

Xenon

Photon

With different weights, face fabrics and features for different types of use.

http://us.rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill.html

Similarly with all the major outdoor companies...

http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the_gear/clothing/insulation/citadel_ja...

http://www.mammut.ch

http://www.patagonia.com/us/shop/mens-jackets-synthetic-insulation?k=1D-6z-...

http://marmot.com/catalog/mens/jackets--vests/insulated/synthetic-insulated...

http://www.sherpaadventuregear.com/fw12-mens-insulation.html

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/or-gear/jackets.html?cat=2165

http://store.berghaus.com/c/mens/clothing/fleece-insulation/?facet=ads_f7_n...

http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/insulation

http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Jackets#Insulated_Shell

http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Jackets#Insulated_Waterproof_S...

http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Mid_Layer-Sweaters

http://www.thenorthface.com

http://www.haglofs.com/

I think for the UK, with our climate, a synthetic jacket or two is essential for the outdoor person whether cragging, alpinism, running or biking.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH:

I recommend reading http://cascadeclimbers.com/synthetic-insulated-jacket-layering-review-by-da...

In reply to An Triubhas: Ive got the ME Fitzroy in medium.

Nice a long to cover the rear, nice fleeced pockets and the hood, which can be rolled down, is really good too.

Main thing is its warmth.

Ive used it in very cold temps with just a mid layer fleece underneath and Ive been toasty warm.

Not cheap at £180 but I suspect I will get a lot of use from it.

In reply to An Triubhas: I think a belay jacket absolutely must have a hood. The hood makes both an objective and subjective difference to warmth.

The holy trinity are the Montane Flux, ME Fitzroy and Rab Generator but I personally prefer my TNK Makalu which lists at about £220 but which is available at nearly half price in a few stores right now. It has a proper waterproof membrane (rating similar to Goretex Activeshell) and therefore a hardshell exterior so you can hug chimneys and climb in it (abrasion resistance). It will double as a waterproof to climb in if you strip down to a base layer underneath, and it will resist a full day's rainy belays staying perfectly dry and light (wet insulation is heavy insulation). It also looks better around town (which I expect many, me included, would say is TNF's natural habitat... weighs 100g more than the other three, which is pretty acceptable for a genuine waterproof outer.

In reply to An Triubhas: Recently got a Mammut Rime Pro. Never owned a better jacket. Warmth to weight is fantastic, cut is perfect, hood is great, exactly what it says on the tin.

In reply to An Triubhas: Have you seen the Howies jackets on sports pursuit? £60.00 and Primaloft

In reply to An Triubhas:

Hey what about this?
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/mammut-marangun-jacket-p216266/?utm_source=Silv...

In reply to And Climb: agree Alpha has more weight and less compressible than Primaloft for equivalent warmth, but is more comfortable for use, so yes good layering/soft-shell option for cold weather

To OP: regarding warmth, the best fit will give you best warmth, large air gaps reduce effectiveness, so of the 3 you are thinking about which have roughly same insulation, then choose fit and it will be warmer than a baggy/boxy jkt

HTH

In reply to An Triubhas:

Montane Prism 2.0. Lightweight, can just about squeeze the hood over a helmet and I find it to be nice and warm. Cheap too.

In reply to An Triubhas: I'm very pleased with my Rab Generator Alpine. If I had any gripes they would be that it is quite long in the body (warm, but gets tangled with your rack) and the pockets are too low to use under a pack or harness but I don't think I have ever actually used it like that. One of the best things about it is that you can pack it in its own chest pocket and clip it on your harness. Most of the time I don't really want to take my rucksack off on cramped stances and rummage for a jacket.

In reply to iksander: Nice jacket, the Rab Generator. But how do you get it on without taking off your rucksac?

In reply to BnB: How can you get any jacket on without taking off your rucksac?

In reply to An Triubhas:

Without a hood and really really lightweight and compact: Rab Generator. 390g and goes into it's pocket for carrying. I've lived in mine for three years everywhere from the high street to windy Alpine rock routes and walkies in Nepal and it still looks new.

With a hood and best warmth/weight: Haglofs Barrier Hood. 600g and 150g/m2 insulation which is Haglofs own version of primaloft type stuff. Also packs into it's pocket, but only just. Goes everywhere with me in Winter. Incidentally if you can use a medium they've got it at Castleberg in Settle for £65 - not far from you? Normally £100+

In reply to aldo56: Sounds like the bra trick,but it's not that difficult - just like if you're driving (and probably as inadvisable...)

In reply to aldo56:

I suspsect he means he's not wearing one at all, since he can just clip his jakcet to the back of his harness.

However, I'm not sure why you should be 'rummaging' for a belay jacket. It just sits on the very top waiting to be used.

In reply to Ander: My 'sac has an outside pocket sized just right for the purpose