UKC

Can anyone tell us why the 2 bits of gear at the start of the route?

In reply to Phill Mitch:

presume that when he falls off and the belayer legs it backwards more rope is taken in
rather than just changing the angle to a higher runner

maybe ?

In reply to Phill Mitch:

watch it again

In reply to lithos: Yep sounds good to me thanks.

In reply to pauldr:just watched it again and see the first essential runner is a friend that would probably be ok without the lower runners!

In reply to Phill Mitch: He has a conversation with his belayer about it. As mentioned it's to take in slack incase he falls. The friend higher up would be fine, but you can take in more slack if there's something lower down because of the angles (3 meters of running = 3 meters of slack taken in rather than the negligible amount that would be taken in if the runner is higher up).

Or at least I think that's the reason...

In reply to David Kirsfelds:

That's a fair explanation of how it usually works to prevent groundfalls but in this case it seems like the exact opposite.

With the gear well back and a rigid belay any fall would see him arcing and slamming uncomfortably into the rock, so he's increasing the dynamic belay effect by asking his belayer to walk inwards during the fall arrest. That way not only will the direction of impact be more vertical (i.e. tangential to the face) but in this case it's likely he'll also clear the bulge too and land in he overhanging section below it.

In reply to Phill Mitch:

Call me cynical, but I just assumed it was because the video is clearly sponsored by Wild Country. Note the extended butt shots near the start, clearly displaying the Wild Country logo on his harness. Those look a lot better with a rack of large, brightly coloured friends jingling around! Then, having included those shots it would be weird if he didn't even use them...

In reply to Nick Russell:

Cynical.

In reply to Nick Russell: "Climbing gear company in advertising shock horror" I hardly think you can begrudge a company that has paid for a video to be made that we get for free, demonstrating some of thier new product line.

In reply to gcandlin:

No, I don't begrudge them at all. I enjoyed the video, even watched the bit showing off the harness at the end after the climbing had finished.

Somebody asked why the cams were placed at the beginning, despite JP clearly not needing protection for those moves, and I suggested maybe there was a commercial motive. I wasn't making a judgement

In reply to Nick Russell:

Placing gear near the ground for commercial motives? I'm afraid your just plain wrong.

In reply to gcandlin:

I do.

In reply to Phill Mitch:

I would have said that the lower piece was placed so that if the force of the fall took his belayer off her feet she would not be carried to high.

Don't know if this is the case but I have done this in the past when faced with a long fall potential and a small female belayer.

Oh and its no good saying tie them down they need to be able to move while belaying.

In reply to Phill Mitch: - john arran has hit the nail on the head there. The only risk on this route is a nasty slam against the rock and the potential to damage the ropes over the arete. A soft catch by running towards those two low pieces of gear would let James drop down more than swing towards the rock.

In reply to Phill Mitch: oh for heavens sake, anyone can see that James is nervous about the S 2a start so he has protected it!

;op

In reply to Nick Russell: Nothing quite like being cynical AND wrong eh?

In reply to john arran: Fair point!

In reply to Phill Mitch:

Slight side note, is the giant cam common practice on Elder Crack now? Must admit doing it as a early E2 with a wire poked quite low down (But as high as I could reach) at the back of the crack certainly spiced it up. I remember thinking I would struggle to reverse the moves I'd made to the good hold, and once I had it, looking at the fall potential thinking I hope I can do the next bit!!

Top respect to JP but I felt a bit robbed seeing an E10 climber putting the giant cam on the E2 bit.

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

Yeah, but he wasn't using it to protect the E2 was he.

In reply to jonny2vests:

Yes he was. The crux of the E2 is well before the moves out left on the arete. Its a classic tick worth checking out.

Not to worry, I do get it re sponsorship, and actually having the cam available, why wouldn't you use it.

In reply to Phill Mitch: "I'm not going to protect this part of the climb even though I have the cam, and the ability to place it, and it being a bomber placement solely to please some wads on UKC..." I'm sure that's what he thought.

In reply to Jackwd:

Not expecting him to think that at all, just comparing my own experience being pumped and pulling through the buldge in a very committed situation.

Looks like you want to break into E2, give it a go, with or without the cam its a good route!

In reply to john arran:

Hi John
Having been there at the time to take pics for Climber you are absolutely correct. Caro was indeed instructed to move in if James fell, hence hopefully missing the bulge and potential ankle snapping fall.

Hope you're well?

David

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

Oh I see, the early big cams.

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

It's hardly hidden esoterica, not sure why you keep assuming nobody's done it apart from you.

In reply to David Simmonite: Brilliant, thanks.