In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to biscuit)
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> [...]
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> You are the one claiming no one is "pushing" people. Would you like to explain how encouraging differs from pushing?
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Buy a dictionary. When i teach my kids and they don't know what words mean i get them to look it up. I find that way the learning experience is deepened.
>Yes that's what sponsors often do. As you admit this happens what exactly do you disagree with me about? I'm sure you realise that for anybody, let alone youngsters, getting free gear is a lot more than just the monetary value, it's like a prize or a cup, an acknowledgement of achievement.
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I said that yes some do feel that way. I then talked about how the kids who are only in it for the glory probably won't get the sponsorship anyway as the level they need to get to takes a lot of hard work and dedication. That can only be ground out because you love what you're doing, not because you're chasing a new pair of shoes.
> The old forum "give me proof" gambit, as if we have to provide line and verse like in a court of law, just precociousness, especially as you, apparently, know of occasions when people are given gear and shoes by sponsors so you already have "proof".
"Proof" of what ? No you don't have to come up with physical evidence but you did give an example ( Red Bull ) - i guess as a form of proof Bruce. Why did you feel the need to do that? Was it because my precociousness was annoying you. Did it annoy you more when it turned out that your example appears to be a misconstrued one ?
Giving gear to enable ( look that one up as well if you need to, it's similar in this context to encourage, but very different from pushng ) people to achieve more than they otherwise would have done is what goes on. Yes, they ( the company ) then get the publicity they want, of course, but i think we are very lucky in our sport that most gear companies are still owned/run by people who are climbers and have a more altruistic approach than other companies may do.
> But be my guest, think what you like, if all is fine and dandy in the best of possible worlds... except it isn't, there has just been an accident which is what this thread is all about.
Ah, so you're giving up on the argument with the old forum gambit of "Think what you like" Roughly translated it means: "Well you're obviously too stupid to see things from my point of view so i shall dismiss you and be pitying and condascending in the hope that makes me look better. "
PS the accident you are referring to didn't have anything to do with children leading hard routes. Are you aware of that ?
How do you know there is a problem or are you just arguing for the sake of it as often seems the case for you ?
We do sometimes need proof. Proof that there is an actual problem of children being PUSHED into climbing hard/dangerous routes they otherwise would not attempt. You have stated this goes on so i feel the onus is on you to give some evidence to substantiate your claim.
Please don't go back and search your words and start twisting and claiming that's not exactly what you said. That is what you implied and we all know it.
Are you prepared to name a company involved in this ?
If not what grounds or experience has made you believe this is going on ?