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On Castle Rock of Triermain are two classics - OB and NCE - between them, towards the top of the crag, is a huge lozenge of rock - ready to roll - and it weighs in at 1000 tons - The movement has been monitored over the past 2 years, and it is slowly moving.
Would you climb under it? What should be done about it? What damage will it do when it falls?
Would you climb under it? What should be done about it? What damage will it do when it falls?
> Would you climb under it?
No.
What should be done about it?
Get somebody who knows about these things to set a charge behind it, blast it off, then clear up any remaining debris. Of course this might not work out as intended but it can hardly be any worse than the existing situation.
What damage will it do when it falls?
A lot. I cannot believe people are still living and working below.
In reply to Steve Scott:
If you were in the vicinity you might need a plaster afterwards; maybe two.
And you'd probably need a drink fairly sharpish too.
T.
> What damage will it do when it falls?
If you were in the vicinity you might need a plaster afterwards; maybe two.
And you'd probably need a drink fairly sharpish too.
T.
In reply to Steve Scott:
Routes to the right of Mayday Cracks are fine though. I've only been to the crag once, recently, and thought the routes were superb - a great style of climbing that's hard to come by, with lovely little incut holds and run-outs above bomber gear. What could be better?
Some folks there said that since this business the crag has become neglected. The routes I did were fine, but they did look rather vegetated though the holds were clean.
So, yes I think it would be daft to climb on the bit that's falling down, but the rest of the North crag is still great.
Routes to the right of Mayday Cracks are fine though. I've only been to the crag once, recently, and thought the routes were superb - a great style of climbing that's hard to come by, with lovely little incut holds and run-outs above bomber gear. What could be better?
Some folks there said that since this business the crag has become neglected. The routes I did were fine, but they did look rather vegetated though the holds were clean.
So, yes I think it would be daft to climb on the bit that's falling down, but the rest of the North crag is still great.
In reply to Steve Scott:
Presumably there are warning notices at the foot of the crag about this? If not, there's a serious problem, because I'd imagine that as few as 3-4% of visitors to the crag know about it. In that case, the explosives option - small charges in the hands of a demolition expert - seems like the best solution.
Presumably there are warning notices at the foot of the crag about this? If not, there's a serious problem, because I'd imagine that as few as 3-4% of visitors to the crag know about it. In that case, the explosives option - small charges in the hands of a demolition expert - seems like the best solution.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
That's a strange estimate. I would consider it "common knowledge" that North Crag is falling down - and it seems to have had a big impact on traffic. Those that don't know about it are likely to be less obsessive climbers and only interested in the lower grade routes on the South crag.
> (In reply to Steve Scott)
>
> Presumably there are warning notices at the foot of the crag about this? If not, there's a serious problem, because I'd imagine that as few as 3-4% of visitors to the crag know about it.
>
> Presumably there are warning notices at the foot of the crag about this? If not, there's a serious problem, because I'd imagine that as few as 3-4% of visitors to the crag know about it.
That's a strange estimate. I would consider it "common knowledge" that North Crag is falling down - and it seems to have had a big impact on traffic. Those that don't know about it are likely to be less obsessive climbers and only interested in the lower grade routes on the South crag.
In reply to Rick Graham:
Go on Rick - you know you want to do it! It will be the biggest trundle in recent Lakes history.
ALC
Go on Rick - you know you want to do it! It will be the biggest trundle in recent Lakes history.
ALC
In reply to Steve Scott: I'd have no issues climbing under that block. Was there a few weeks ago to climb 'Zig Zag' but found it overly vegetated so didn't bother. Every time I visit a crag, whether it be a mountain or valley crag i expect there to be loose material present and accept that risk as part of the deal.
Would you ever climb below the Rake on Pavey Ark? Just consider all those people scrambling above you up the loose Rake. It doesn't take a 1000 ton block to kill, a small pebble strike may well be enough.
On numerous recent visits to Raven crag in Langdale, blocks of varying sizes have come hurtling down from the crag, I keep going back though, as do plenty of others.
Would you ever climb below the Rake on Pavey Ark? Just consider all those people scrambling above you up the loose Rake. It doesn't take a 1000 ton block to kill, a small pebble strike may well be enough.
On numerous recent visits to Raven crag in Langdale, blocks of varying sizes have come hurtling down from the crag, I keep going back though, as do plenty of others.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Yes Gordon there was a BMC notice at the start of the path as you leave the road when I was last there late last year. I presume it is still there.
Yes Gordon there was a BMC notice at the start of the path as you leave the road when I was last there late last year. I presume it is still there.
In reply to Rick Graham:
Just lob one of these in it, Rick: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=110121
> What should be done about it?
Just lob one of these in it, Rick: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=110121
In reply to jon:
Interesting photo for two reasons.
1 Moving a UXB , gulp.
2 Have you had a haircut?
Interesting photo for two reasons.
1 Moving a UXB , gulp.
2 Have you had a haircut?
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I have the right to remain silent.
> (In reply to Rick Graham)
>
> Go on Rick - you know you want to do it! It will be the biggest trundle in recent Lakes history.
>
> ALC
>
> Go on Rick - you know you want to do it! It will be the biggest trundle in recent Lakes history.
>
> ALC
I have the right to remain silent.
In reply to Rick Graham:
No chrage behind it. Would shatter the rock face left behind and it would take years to stabilise. If you want to do anything the best option is leverage as it leaves the rock behind reletively intact. if levegae impossible then a charge in the loose block would break the block up and the crack should create a barrier to the shock wave and prevent any uneccesary damage to the remaining rock face. Biggest concern though is what lies underneath the fall zone.
No chrage behind it. Would shatter the rock face left behind and it would take years to stabilise. If you want to do anything the best option is leverage as it leaves the rock behind reletively intact. if levegae impossible then a charge in the loose block would break the block up and the crack should create a barrier to the shock wave and prevent any uneccesary damage to the remaining rock face. Biggest concern though is what lies underneath the fall zone.
In reply to owennewcastle: explosives would be a rather uncontrolled solution, pneumatic cushion jacks or Hydraulic ones would be a far safer method of moving the unstable section.
In reply to muppetfilter: yep prising the thing off much better if possible. But if its not ready to go you dont want to do a half job.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Since Deer Bield?
Since Deer Bield?
In reply to muppetfilter:
You are probably correct, but I have always missed the excitement of rock blasting on large construction sites in the late 70's and early 80's.
> (In reply to owennewcastle) explosives would be a rather uncontrolled solution, pneumatic cushion jacks or Hydraulic ones would be a far safer method of moving the unstable section.
You are probably correct, but I have always missed the excitement of rock blasting on large construction sites in the late 70's and early 80's.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
And more importantly less serious climbers, thus less important human beings.
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
> [...]
>
> Those that don't know about it are likely to be less obsessive climbers and only interested in the lower grade routes on the South crag.
> [...]
>
> Those that don't know about it are likely to be less obsessive climbers and only interested in the lower grade routes on the South crag.
And more importantly less serious climbers, thus less important human beings.
In reply to Steve Scott: In the same way I climb under seracs, need to be aware of the danger but if the route is worthwhille...??!,
In reply to Steve Scott:
- ready to roll - and it weighs in at 1000 tons - The movement has been monitored over the past 2 years, and it is slowly moving.
Hi Steve
Is there a definite trend in the movement? I guess its only one way.
Any indication of when it will topple however is probably as reliable as earthquake or volcano eruption prediction science.
- ready to roll - and it weighs in at 1000 tons - The movement has been monitored over the past 2 years, and it is slowly moving.
>
Hi Steve
Is there a definite trend in the movement? I guess its only one way.
Any indication of when it will topple however is probably as reliable as earthquake or volcano eruption prediction science.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
It not important whether they're important or not if they're round on the south crag - which is the important thing.
It not important whether they're important or not if they're round on the south crag - which is the important thing.
In reply to Steve Scott: here's what 30000 tonnes looks like! youtube.com/watch?v=Xw11DHCFYPI&
In reply to Rick Graham:
possibly not. analysis of micro-seismicity seems quite promising- at least in this case:
http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/9/1625/2009/nhess-9-1625-2009.pdf
>
> Any indication of when it will topple however is probably as reliable as earthquake or volcano eruption prediction science.
> Any indication of when it will topple however is probably as reliable as earthquake or volcano eruption prediction science.
possibly not. analysis of micro-seismicity seems quite promising- at least in this case:
http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/9/1625/2009/nhess-9-1625-2009.pdf
In reply to malk:
At Castle Rock we have a couple of "tell tales" and observations every month or so.
> (In reply to Rick Graham)
> [...]
>
> possibly not. analysis of micro-seismicity seems quite promising- at least in this case:
> http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/9/1625/2009/nhess-9-1625-2009.pdf
> [...]
>
> possibly not. analysis of micro-seismicity seems quite promising- at least in this case:
> http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/9/1625/2009/nhess-9-1625-2009.pdf
At Castle Rock we have a couple of "tell tales" and observations every month or so.
In reply to Steve Scott:
I climbed there last, the thing to the right of agony, I forget its name.
I figured that the settled period of weather we are having reduced the probability of the rock falling in the couple of hours we were there.
If there are any plans to trundle the boulder, please publish the date and time. I'll be sat on the top of High Rigg with a pizza and a bottle of wine watching the fun
I climbed there last, the thing to the right of agony, I forget its name.
I figured that the settled period of weather we are having reduced the probability of the rock falling in the couple of hours we were there.
If there are any plans to trundle the boulder, please publish the date and time. I'll be sat on the top of High Rigg with a pizza and a bottle of wine watching the fun
In reply to Steve Scott: at least when it goes wele have a new bouldering venue.
In reply to Steve Scott:
Link to the BBC Look North report that was broadcast a few days ago, for those interested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-23676516
Eddie
Link to the BBC Look North report that was broadcast a few days ago, for those interested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-23676516
Eddie
In reply to Steve Scott:
There are lots of instances of where this is happening but no one is any wiser, such as the tension crack on the footpath of Whernside, but thousands of other cases in the 'wilds’ of the UK and abroad.
It doesn't make any sense to blast primarily because it would be very destructive and very expensive to clean up after. You could use an expanding polymer which could simultaneously break up the detached block and ‘lever’ it off its perch. That would seem to be a practical solution.
However all of this is meaningless as no one is going to pay the kind of money to do it and frankly it is unnecessary unless it was a road or property beneath. Monitoring is best in this situation and climbers climb at their own risk. Business as usual which should please everyone, no?
There are lots of instances of where this is happening but no one is any wiser, such as the tension crack on the footpath of Whernside, but thousands of other cases in the 'wilds’ of the UK and abroad.
It doesn't make any sense to blast primarily because it would be very destructive and very expensive to clean up after. You could use an expanding polymer which could simultaneously break up the detached block and ‘lever’ it off its perch. That would seem to be a practical solution.
However all of this is meaningless as no one is going to pay the kind of money to do it and frankly it is unnecessary unless it was a road or property beneath. Monitoring is best in this situation and climbers climb at their own risk. Business as usual which should please everyone, no?
In reply to Steve Scott:
There was a thing in the Guardian about it last year.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/oct/04/lakedistrict-mount...
There was a thing in the Guardian about it last year.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/oct/04/lakedistrict-mount...
In reply to Steve Scott: all one wall at Peak Scar North Yorks has been moving for a few years ,its a bit like Russian Roulete if you do the Routes..
In reply to Toreador:
That is when the crack appear - possibly brought about by earthquake in Coniston area.
Just need to wait patiently for the new rock to appear.
That is when the crack appear - possibly brought about by earthquake in Coniston area.
Just need to wait patiently for the new rock to appear.
In reply to Toreador:
I would guess they keep a set of these kinds of features in reserve for slow news times like the middle of August. I thought they did a pretty good job of making an interesting tale out the non-story (in news-value terms) of a crack in a rock getting slowly wider and not being a threat to the people living below it.
For those who want to trundle the bit of rock splitting off, the Walter Scott lyrical poem (The Bridal of Triermain) had the same idea nearly 200 years ago - in that case the hero chucks his sword at the overhanging bit at the top and this is what happens:
And at the rocks the weapon threw,
Just where one crag's projected crest
Hung proudly balanced o'er the rest.
Hurl'd with main force, the weapon's shock
Rent a huge fragment of the rock.
If by mere strength, 'twere hard to tell,
Or if the blow dissolved some spell,
But down the headlong ruin came,
With cloud of dust and flash of flame.
Down bank, o'er bush, its course was borne,
Crush'd lay the copse, the earth was torn,
etc...
Bet they've got those lines saved up for when this chunk of rock does finally peel off.
Eddie
> (In reply to EddieA)
>
> Wonder why they've only just noticed after 2 years?
>
> Wonder why they've only just noticed after 2 years?
I would guess they keep a set of these kinds of features in reserve for slow news times like the middle of August. I thought they did a pretty good job of making an interesting tale out the non-story (in news-value terms) of a crack in a rock getting slowly wider and not being a threat to the people living below it.
For those who want to trundle the bit of rock splitting off, the Walter Scott lyrical poem (The Bridal of Triermain) had the same idea nearly 200 years ago - in that case the hero chucks his sword at the overhanging bit at the top and this is what happens:
And at the rocks the weapon threw,
Just where one crag's projected crest
Hung proudly balanced o'er the rest.
Hurl'd with main force, the weapon's shock
Rent a huge fragment of the rock.
If by mere strength, 'twere hard to tell,
Or if the blow dissolved some spell,
But down the headlong ruin came,
With cloud of dust and flash of flame.
Down bank, o'er bush, its course was borne,
Crush'd lay the copse, the earth was torn,
etc...
Bet they've got those lines saved up for when this chunk of rock does finally peel off.
Eddie
In reply to EddieA:
just wait until Cuadrilla get going ........
just wait until Cuadrilla get going ........
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