UKC

Well?

My half-formed ideas so far are:-

Gairich (across, er, whatever that loch in front of it is called. Is it Loch Quoich?)
An Socach (and in fact all the ones round the head of Loch Mullardoch)
Lurg Mhor/Bidean a'Coire Sheasgaich (along Loch Monar)
Ben Alder and the others round there (along Loch Ericht)

Any other suggestions? I suppose Ben More, in a way, but I meant ones where one could conveniently take a kayak off the roof of the car, stick it in the water, and proceed, rather than ones on islands. To replace legwork rather than driving, in fact.

I have no idea whether it's actually permitted simply to kayak up these lochs. I don't quite see why not, but I don't know. Anyone better informed?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Slioch, across Loch Maree?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Yes, I thought of that. The true category I'm after is 'Munroes *I haven't done* approachable by kayak', however.

I seem to remember a couple of lads drowning on Loch Maree trying this very thing, mind. Still, I'm assuming a buoyancy aid should sort that problem out. Then I'll just have to stop going round in circles.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Cuillin from Elgol?

You can paddle in lochs under Scottish access laws as long as you are "reasonable".

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Have you done the Knoydart Munroes?

Not a Munro but I've always thought it would be nice to do Suilven by paddling up Loch Veyate and then the Fionn Loch from Elphin.

Re Slioch, I have heard stories of canoes getting trashed by people unknown (the estate) when left on the North bank on Loch Maree.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

It's not a Munro (or even a Corbett) but Suilven in Assynt would be a good addition to your list. Kayaking or canoeing in from Loch Veyattie and onto Fionn Loch is a great way to do this lovely hill.

Most folk camp and head back next day. The short flowing section between the lochs can be a bit bouldery if the water is low - beware if you have a glass boat.

A good extention to this trip is to portage the boat over to Loch Sionascaig. Fropm here Cul Mor and Stac Pollaidh are achievable. Not heard of this being done in a sea boat though.

In reply to Removed User: Ha! Beat me to it.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I'd have thought the Ben Alder ones were more easily visited by using a mountain bike as far as Culra bothy.

Ben Lomond - would be different.

Gulvain from across Loch Arkaig

ALC

In reply to Craig Mc:

Yes, I went out (as in went out paddling) a few years ago with a lass who offers various kayaking trips from Lochinver (I think). She was doing that Suilven trip quite often. It does sound pretty tempting.

Incidentally, a bit of googling, for example this

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bird-expert-and-son-7-drown-...

reminds me that the Loch Maree drowning wasn't walkers, and perhaps that I should substitute 'life-jacket' for 'buoyancy aid' and add 'spray deck' and 'wetsuit'. Still, in general I'm hopeful that the application of money and prudence to it can more or less solve the drowning problem.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Access code details here:
http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A342167.pdf

ps - Munros, not Munroes!

In reply to a lakeland climber:

Yeah, but I don't hold with mountain bikes except on made estate roads. Very depressing seeing the damage they've done on the Geldie to Feshie track while doing Carn an Fhidleir and An Sgarsoch recently. To be fair, the track beside Loch Ericht may well fall into the made-estate-roads category. Still, kayaking would be much nicer.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Re: Lurg Mhor/Bidean a'Coire Sheasgaich (along Loch Monar)

If you mean starting from the eastern end of Loch Monar, you might struggle without a helpful driver to take your car back to the entrance of Strathfarrar due to vehicle access restrictions. Or maybe drive/paddle/walk/paddle/drive fast.

What about Sgurr na Ciche up Loch Nevis from Mallaig?

In reply to Jack Frost:

Ah, yes, good point. I had thought of that, but I forgot. You'd be lucky to get it done, I agree. I don't think the 5.00 cut-off is always rigidly applied, but one wouldn't want to take the piss.

I'd have to look at a map, but I like the idea.

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Ah, thank you. Excellent. I shall take a copy of that to wave at any hostiles I meet. Although mind you since, as Eric hints, they have the option of simply trashing my boat while I'm away leaving me with miles to walk round, I'd better be polite.

You're probably right about Munros, though both seem to be used. Why's that, I wonder? It's potatoes not potatos, isn't it?

In reply to Eric:

I've done Ladhar Bheinn and one of the other two on Knoydart itself but yes, good call; I suppose one could go from the mainland to that village the boat lands at and walk from there, though it would add a fair bit of walking as compared to staying there and using a car. Not the more inland ones - could one reasonably kayak to those?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

It's a full blown track down the side of Loch Ericht - you could drive a low slung sports car down it! A bit rougher getting to the bothy but it's still on sustainable tracks.

I've biked in Glen Feshie and I'd say that a lot of damage by MTBs is done when the ground is saturated. In dry conditions, you'd be hard pushed to tell a bike has crossed some ground. Biking past 20 tonne forestry machinery riving trenches out of the ground gives some perspective on things.

The Scottish open access laws still require users to use common sense and have respect for the landscape they use.

ALC

In reply to a lakeland climber:

>It's a full blown track down the side of Loch Ericht

Thought it might be!

>I've biked in Glen Feshie and I'd say that a lot of damage by MTBs is done when the ground is saturated. In dry conditions, you'd be hard pushed to tell a bike has crossed some ground.

Hmm. I'm not sure about that. It's been pretty dry for a long time and there were plenty of recent tracks. More in the middle section below CAF and AS themselves, to be fair. Anyway, you'd wait a long time before bits of that middle section weren't fairly wet.

>Biking past 20 tonne forestry machinery riving trenches out of the ground gives some perspective on things.

Oh, to be sure, along with the general network of tracks etc bulldozed for the convenience of c***s who like killing things. Still, just because other people behave appallingly is no reason for behaving badly oneself, of course.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Have you still to climb Maoile Lunndaidh? I chugged up the loch from the Monar dam in a pal's motorboat and it certainly made for an easier and more varied day than walking both ways (apart from the 40-minute interruption when the boat broke down).

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Is this as depressing as the rutted paths that have appeared on every munro? Could be worse, they might bring back the droving.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: A few boat/hill suggestions in this UKH article form a year or two back: http://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/page.php?id=3894 ...though I see the more obvious ones have been mentioned already - Ladhar Bheinn via Loch Hourn, Ben Alder (and more relevant to Loch Ericht, Beinn Bheoil - no it's not a track all that way down the loch)...

I'll add Loch Quoich as a potential route into Knoydart on top of Nevis, Morar and Hourn - it's clearly good for all the munros from Sgurr na Ciche to Gairich and could be used to access Luinne Bheinn etc too.

Mullardoch is more convenient access than Monar, if you're up that way - and at its head there's a brilliant round of Gleann a'Choilich which takes in all 6 munros from Fionnlaidh to Dheiragain - quite a weekend expedition with the 13km paddle each end too. Very natural boat route, not contrived at all. To reach the south side of the Carn Eige range you might also consider Loch Affric too, though it'd be a novelty trip since the track is so easily cyclable. Ditto for Mullach Fraoch Choire etc by way of Affric - doable but hardly necessary.

You could try the Fannaichs from the southeast via Loch Fannich, though again the bike option is a bit less faff.

If you can work out how to get your boat into Fionn Loch then A'Mhaidghdean etc are your oyster

Sure there's more...

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

No - also looks a good idea, although the 5.00 problem might resurface.

jcm

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

Yes, a lot more depressing. For one thing, there are plenty of Munros (!) without a rutted path.

On the question of cattle droving, btw, does anyone have a good explanation for what seems to have been the ancient practice of holding cattle markets on top of hills (eg Beinn Udlamain, An Sgarsoch)? It seems unnecessarily athletic.

jcm

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

>If you can work out how to get your boat into Fionn Loch then A'Mhaidghdean etc are your oyster

Big old 'if'! I suppose I could charter a helicopter.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Ladhar Bheinn should be top of your list

In reply to Tom Last:

Ah, just seen that you're done it.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Actually I met someone who'd been ferried in to Carnmore by a fisherman's boat. Dunno if it was from the Kernsary side or the track that leads to the loch from Drumchork.

ALC

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:



The book "scottish hill tracks" suggests that a lot of drovers routes went along ridges because the valleys were essentially trackless bog & the hills were easier going. I suppose a hill top would be equally easy for parties from opposite sides to visit.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I can highly recommend paddling down to Inbhir Dhorrcail and doing Ladhar Bheinn. There's a good spot for camping with mussels to pick, otters to spot...Get tide times sussed first though, I reckon we were doing ten knots through the Caolas Mor.

Also, paddling across Loch Quoich to do Sgurr Mor and/or Gairich.

Also, paddling to head of Loch Quoich and doing Ben Aden (amazing hill), plus Sgurr na Ciche, Garbh Cioch Mor and Sgurr nan Coireachan. Amazing October day for us with an inversion and t-shirt weather all day.

(Even if you have done any of them before)

Jase

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

When are you planning this mission? I might be taking a kayak up in August, with a view to getting in to the climbing on Beinn Lair & some other bits and bobs.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Maybe, although you'd probably still be OK with a prompt start - and anyway, is it not 8pm at this time of year? In May 2007 we cast off from the dam shortly before 10am, and I was put ashore in the bay SE of Maoile Lunndaidh at 11:10am. Sat about there for 20 mins, then set off uphill and reached the summit at 1:40pm. Had another 20 mins there, then walked back over the Corbett An Sidhean and reached the dam just after 5:40pm, popped up Meall Innis an Loichel (Marilynbagging) between the two sections of dam and still made it back to the gate no probs in time for the 7pm cutoff.

I don't know how fast kayaking is, but it looks feasible to paddle along to the same bay, go up the S ridge of Maoile Lunndaidh, down the SE ridge (or vice versa) back to the bay and paddle back to the dam. Allowing 5hr for on-hill time ought to be comfortable, with time for lounging around - it's only 800m of ascent and five miles for the on-land part of the trip, after all.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:


Oh, is it? Damn, that's the trouble with using an outdated guidebook. If I'd known that I might have made other arrangements during my recent visit.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Central location accessible from several communities without risking crossing possibly hostile ground. Sgarsoch fine for Strathspey, Mar and Atholl for instance.
There may be a deeply forgotten tradition underlying it too - it was done because it was done when grandad was a lad etc... That could go back a long long way.

In reply to davidbeynon:

Yes, I suppose if these tops were on the drove roads it would make sense. As far as I know BU and AS aren't, but perhaps (well, definitely, in fact) there were a load more drove roads than I know about.

jcm

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

Yes, that's probably the best explanation, isn't it? I imagine hills were often in effect boundaries and you can see why they might be in effect a neutral location.

It often strikes me how very much less afraid they must have been of walking than we are in those days, and I guess this is just another example.

jcm

In reply to davidbeynon:

It's a general aspiration fuelled by a recent visit. I wish I *could* be up there in August!

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

This seems to be the current state of play with gate-opening:
http://www.mcofs.org.uk/strathfarrar-access.asp
Closed all day Tuesday, half-day closing Wednesday, and every other day open until 8pm until the end of Aug, then 7pm in Sept and 6pm in Oct.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The hills you mentioned initially are on county boundaries, my guess that this was the case was undermined by the adjacent Carn Ealar sitting on a triple boundary so any boundary advantages would have suggested this hill be used for a cattle market so I left it. I'm not quite sure what you mean by being less afraid of walking in those days but I would add that there were a lot more habitations in what we now class as empty areas these days. I haven't been up Ealar/Sgarsoch for a few years now, perhaps Sgarsoch is more physically able to hold a market, are there any remnants of drove roads around the summit of An Sgarsoch?
I'd say cattle markets on summits is as far as you can thread drift from kayaking

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I know what you mean. The walk in to Carnmore for some climbing on A'Mhaighdean last year got me thinking about it.

I reckon it would work really well, but not 100% sure my kayaking skills are up to it or that it's worth taking a boat all the way from Bristol yet.

I'm definitely up there, but maybe 50/50 on whether I will try and go for it or leave it until next year.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


For the spelling fanatics, the "rule" seems to be to add -s and not -es for proper nouns ending in o.

In reply to Craig Mc:

I did this full circuit last year and it was superb for combining kayaking and impressive summits (who cares if not munros?). There are two portages south into Sionascaig (one slightly devious) so you can make a great round-trip adventure. (my plastic boat got super-scratched but it was well worth it)

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

One other Munro.

Beinn Na Lap from Fersit dam.

You could actually take your sleeping bag with you and stay in the bothy at Staoineaig.

In reply to Removed User:

Never thought of that one - ta

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Ben Lomond from the West shore? ( but chances are you have done that one ?)

And for anyone who wants o do the water approach without a kayak there is a water bus that operates on the Loch

Ben more on Mull from Oban and Sgurr Dubh, via the dubh ridge from Elgol are 2 worthy editions

In reply to MG: Should read: take access responsibly!

In reply to Nick Cole: OK! I am sure JCM is both reasonable and responsible. Afterall, he will wear a bouyancy aid!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I cracked and bought myself a kayak for my birthday. Approaching hills with it is definitely on the cards now!