UKC

Just got back from a quick trip to the Rockies and Squamish and was once again struck by how scruffy most of the climbers there look compared to climbers in the UK. Is it part of our culture in the UK to want to own all the latest and fanciest climbing specific gear and apparel or are climbers richer in the UK than abroad? I've also considered maybe due to our climate we feel the need to own more hi-tech stuff.

Personally I'm really not into buying any climbing specific apparel etc, the only climbing brand clothes I own are stuff I've won/been given. I sometimes feel that when I go to the crag in the UK some of the worst climbers seem to have the most fancy and expensive gear (or maybe it just looks nice and shiny because they rarely use it!). I do appreciate that high performance clothes are very useful for more specialised and difficult aspects of climbing but for general cragging in the UK I don't normally feel that not wearing the latest ME lightweight trousers are holding me back!

In reply to Rachel Slater:

It rains more here, and when it rains what else is there to do but go to a caf for a bacon butty and tea, or go to a gear shop to shop?

By the way, was recently reading Andy Kirkpatrick in Cold Wars, who suggested the opposite, that the Brits were all more scruffy and ugly than the climbers in Colorado.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

That is definitely true! I guess it depends a lot on the seasons and stuff then..

In reply to Rachel Slater:

For cragging I have 3 t-shirts that people are sick of me wearing, along with my very holey crag-hopper trousers that go everywhere with me.

I try to buy the best I can afford, I waited months for a new waterproof jacket to be reduced from £360 to £160, but then I wear karimoor £9 waterproof trousers.

My 'fancy' clothing only comes out when there's a chance of cold injury. Other than that I'm a scruffy bugger.

P.S. Does Alpkit gear (in relative terms) count as fancy?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Or get the mac and walking boots out and do a severe in the rain? Idwal slabs is famous for it!

In reply to Rachel Slater:

I have one pair of climbing trousers (admittedly Howies) from when I was fat, think they're 36 or 34. They have a big rip in the knee. Baggy cause it's handy when climbing.

I only wear one t-shirt, cause they seem to catch on stuff, so I don't want to knacker up the rest of them. It's a red New Balance t.

That's what I wear 90% of the time. Same clothes. Week in, week out. I will wear different stuff to the wall as T's don't get caught on the wall in the same way.

In reply to OP;
"Are british Climbers more materialistic?"

I doubt it, pet, but I suspect the ones in the North East may like materialistic things.....

Sx

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Doing a 14 pitch route on the Chief vs. an elaborate picnic at Stanage is going to make you scruffier. Plus dirtbag culture (living at the crag etc) doesn't feature that heavily in the UK, its not often practical.

Jon
In the Squish

In reply to Rachel Slater:

I don't know about the Squamish scene, but there are plenty of well-dressed American climbers. And fuhgettaboutit if you go to Europe; everyone looks as if they just stepped off some outdoor fashion runway.

One aspect of apparent climber grunge is related to the rock. For granite and sandstone offwidth, cotton seems to work better than synthetics. It adheres better and is less delicate. You'll blow out your pricey Patagucci's on the first offwidth you try, so it is a lot better to wear jeans for that type of climbing.

In reply to Rachel Slater: I do appreciate that high performance clothes are very useful for more specialised and difficult aspects of climbing but for general cragging in the UK I don't normally feel that not wearing the latest ME lightweight trousers are holding me back!


I presume it's because some some people would rather wear an ME t shirt to the crag rather than a shirt from top-man.

I have tonnes of outdoorsy clothes because I would rather spend £20 on a rab, M.E Haglofs etc top than one off the high street. It's just what suits me.

I'll happily wear my soft shell trousers (battered, crampon holes and scruffed up) to the pub because they are comfy, it's not to prove that I'm a climber or whatever.

I do get your point about people cragging rather than on a big mountain route but it's up to them and I don't judge them whether they wear m.e or a pair of jeans...

Anyway your original point I'm not th best to answer because I'm quite materialistic but I think the uk is way scruffier than alot of the Alpine towns where people on the hill look like they've stepped right out of the shop.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

My excuse - i'm from the lakes. When the places to buy clothes are ambleside and keswick it's hard to buy clothes that aren't technical.

I basically own hardly any pants - but a lot of pairs of shoes and coats.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

I love the way your accessorise your sack cloth shirt with your moleskin breeches in your photos.

There are a lot of people coming into climbing via the wall environment as opposed to starting at school, with friends in their teens etc, when you had no money. Maybe the wall route climbers have more disposable income when they started out.

Not sure why climbers in Canada and/or the US should be any different.

In reply to Rachel Slater: it's almost certainly the venues where serious climbers go and stay or visit on a road trip? Go to a popular easy area near a city and its the same as the UK.

In reply to Rachel Slater: I climb indoors or out in one of two pairs of trousers, both of them i picked up from the Sally Army for 50p!

I'm also often found hanging off route wearing a trilby or a bunnyhat, as they are needed to get my stupid long fringe out of my face. Constantly get comments about it,next time i go to the TCA comp i'm going in a tweed jacket and a flat cap..

I would of said the French and Italians spend a lot more money on the 'hippy' look. Its not cool over here to not look hip on the rock.

You can see the English and the Germans because they wear labelled clothes and helmets. The French and Italians wear pony tails or dreadlocks and designer labelled torn shorts that cost them 100 Euros a pair. Whilst most of them live out of vans for the summer and sleep on their bouldering mats, their rack will of cost a fortune and have every friend known to man!

In reply to Rachel Slater: Hey Rachel

You forget that most climbers in the UK are fat punters with desk jobs, too much money and not enough time to go climbing! As a result they tend to buy the best kit and dont get to use it that often, generally the scruffy buggers are the better climbers, obviously this is a massive generalisation but there is a lot of truth there! That said I love my Arcteryx harness and posh quickdraws... But I got them at trade

Simon

In reply to maybe_si:

Rubbish. You find a minority of such climbers in the US just (as in the UK) on friendly crags that suit them. Not all overweight bumblies are smart either: I'm certainly not.

In reply to maybe_si:

Why would you get a harness and quick drawers from a gay nightclub?

In reply to Rachel Slater: Strange...if true you see the opposite in running.. european trail/mountain runners are immaculately dressed.. matching kit.. shaved legs.. lycra fitted tops.. top of the range solamans.. UK fell runners scruffy trainers.. hairy legs.. short shorts.. vest in hand..

In reply to IainRUK:
That's as much a trail runner/fell runner thing in the UK for me. Some of the newer breed of trail runners are quite gear hungry, most fell runners are, well, if not downright smelly they're certainly special.
A Fell Runner

In reply to SteveRi: Yeah you could be right.. the ultra scene is horrific.. I think its now a UKA rule that you can't run an ultra without at least 3 items of compression clothing..

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Is it that the Americans have spent all their money on cams?

In reply to Rachel Slater: It used to be the reverse - British climbers, regardless of their income, used to wear their oldest, tattiest, holiest clothes. Trousers which were too far gone for gardening in would be worn for climbing. Tramps looked at us pityingly. To the continentals, and particularly the French in their neat jumpers, matchings stockings and pristine white caps, we were beneath contempt.

It was part of the 'look', which included the unkempt beard, woollen breeches, red socks, helmet and peg hammer. If you'd been to the Alps you were allowed to wear a duvet jacket patched with elastoplast, but only in the pub.

The problem was, most of this stuff wasn't very good. When you got wet (and you did, because the waterproofs weren't effective) you stayed wet. We would huddle round the fire in the evenings with clouds of steam coming off our clothes. On the whole, modern gear is more comfortable and more effective.

In reply to Rachel Slater: I'm an average climber, I've got some okay gear because that's what I'd rather buy when I need new gear.
However I
Normally alway buy second hand or sale prices, there are a few generalisations going about here as mentioned but I think people just dress how they want but your hobbies/pass times or jobs can have a bearing on this.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Are you confident that your view isn't coloured by your own aversion to branded gear?

In reply to Rachel Slater:

A lot of people climb vicariously by shopping for climbing gear/clothing. Especially when they've gone somewhere to climb and it's raining so they end up in a cafe/climbing shop. I'm pretty sure that if we asked any of the big retailers they'd tell you they sell most of their fancy gear in the SE and London and that's not just to do with population density and average income A mate who used to import Scott bikes sold most of his fancy rigs away from the MTB areas.

There's snobbery and one-upmanship at work at both ends of the spectrum too. There's no difference between an all-the-gear-no-idea and a deliberate to-cool-for-school cultivation of the dirtbag look. It's all territorial pissing toward an outsider or insider group depending on where one is with respect to the center (if there is one)

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Are British climbers more likely to ignore their own threads?

Lots of people are talking to you, what's putting you off answering Rachel?

In reply to Jonny2vests: Maybe she is trolling and the thread hasn't hit 100 replies yet.

On the other hand she might be doing something worth more time than ukc.

In reply to BelleVedere:

That doesn't sound very hygienic.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I'm not averted to branded gear, I just said I didn't like *buying* it. I am guilty of owning quite a posh arcteryx jacket (among other stuff I've won). Interesting the Arcteryx is made in Bangladesh which irritates me because the retail price doesn't reflect the cheap labour compared to their other products which are made in Canada.

@Jonny2vests: Cheers, most people in Britain wont call British! I mostly started the thread to see what other people thought of the idea. I guess there are climbers everywhere who like going for different sort of looks, whether it be the dirtbag or climbing fashionista. One of the main reasons I was curious was that I know so many people in the UK who don't seem to be able to help themselves buying copious amount of gear/clothes they don't need (and then complain about not having money for other stuff - like a climbing holiday!). In Canada and the US I don't know many people at all like that, most of my friends in Canada are saving every last cent to go out climbing rather than buy the clothes for it.

In reply to the people saying I was making gross generalisations, I was questioning, not stating what I thought was a fact.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

I can see how people might see my in my Arcteryx insulated jacket or my Haglöfs waterproof and not immediately notice that I paid half price for both of them. Sadly, both items are so well made that I haven't managed to make them look battered and scruffy yet.

Sure, for the same money I could have bought full price items from Decathlon with inferior cut and fit, possibly less durable too, but why bother? And I certainly don't see how I "don't need" an insulated jacket or a waterproof.

Admittedly when my half price Rab Neoshell from Snow & Rock arrives I will then own two waterproof jackets (for the price of one), but then that's one very light one for stuffing in the bottom of the alpine pack just in case, and a more robust and comfortable one for when I know I'm going out in the rain. I can see how that might be a bit luxurious compared to the one-jacket-for-everything approach I had as a student, but it's not as if I had a special jacket for walking from the helicopter to the yacht.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Plus, you need fancier clothing to survive in the Cairngorms than you do to survive at Indian Creek.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Buying unnecessary gear is a facet of most sports - it's all part of the fun.

And, as people have said previously, most of us have ended up on climbing trips, in the rain, in Needle Sports, Outside, Nevisport..........


PS

Don't start me on my wife's penchant for buying shoes and handbags!

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Fair enough I think. Its a lot less effort buying a posh jacket and looking the part than doing some interesting climbing. Far simpler way of feeding our own image of ourselves as climbers - posting regularly on a climbing related forum helps this also.

This said, more kit increases options without the need to borrow ill fitting or inappropriate gear which may, say, end up with one hobbling down from the cairngorm plateau in immense amounts of pain. Or soggy, in a different case.

In reply to Liam Brown:


Those boots actually fit quite well, I just don't think they were really designed for walking. If I'd bought a pair new they might have fit well in the shop but the same thing could have happened. In addition, would it not be silly to buy a pair of brand new boots before even knowing if I'd like winter climbing as opposed to buying second hand or borrowing?

In reply to AlanLittle:

I wasn't saying everyone who owns nice jackets don't need them. I'm sure you definetely do need yours by the sound of it. However I'm sure there are people out there who own the same yet rarely even climb outdoors and certainly not when the weather is bad!

In reply to Rachel Slater:

Off topic to the climbing theme, but skiers are far more materialistic. especially in the ski mountaineering side. Take Narrona as a company for an example. High quality gear, yet its all about looking good. Relate it to climbing, Black diamond invest heavily on aesthetics. Compare BD equipment to DMM. DMM i believe have only really cared about aesthetics in recent years. One's American and ones British.

In reply to RichardAWatson:

I think this may only relate to the size and ambition of the brand. Hence why DMM different in recent years.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

This is true. They seemed very stiff.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

We used to be the laughing stock of Europe due to our tatty outfits and now we've smartened up we getting critisised from over the pond*. We can't win!

I've no idea where you're from but am having a stab in the dark from your posts/photos.

In reply to Rachel Slater: All these bad vibes have made me upset, i need to buy a new jacket, that'll make me feel better!!!

In reply to Liam Brown:

I think Rachel stated that it wasn't something she was into, but didn't attach value to materialism as positive or negative.

In reply to Liam Brown: I agree, people can do whatever they like with their money, I was.just curious as to people's opinions on the matter.

In reply to galpinos: I'm English, a permanent resident of Canada and currently live in Scotland.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

I stand corrected.

Started well, got better then ended with crushing diasappointment! I'm sure you'll escape back to one of the first two better options soon enough. You never know, you may make it back to sunny Manchester.

I'd say as our culture in the UK has become more materialistic and in the climbing world that has manifested itself in people buying more/better gear than is truely necessary. Of course, despite wearing a gore-tex jacket whilst pushing a pram round a park this weekend, this doesn't apply to me.

In reply to Liam Brown:

Very valid point.

In reply to Rachel Slater: People are into quick fixes. Its far easier to mistakenly think that the latest piece of gear will make you climb better, whereas in reality its going out climbing and learning from others that will make you better. But I don't think that is a British thing. To be fair we all do it in one form or another. I shouldn't let it bother you though - its up to them what they spend their money on, and if it means they can't afford to go to the crag, it makes it nicer for those who climb on tatty shagged gear and make it to the crag.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

This page, particularly the last few paragraphs, seems relevant to this thread:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-elitist-attitudea-must-read-f...

Generally found In chamonix the Brits are the scruffy ones with any old gear that works, where as Swedes and Norweigens absolutely love new gear, you can spot a swede a mile off. Peak performance, Norrona, POC, Hagloffs.

Although Norrona shorts are nice to climb in, bought myself a few pairs now.

In reply to Rachel Slater:

"All the gear, but no idea".
Is the phrase I think.

Particularly prevalent with lots golfers who seem to think that fancy clubs, gloves etc will improve their game.
I was a crap golfer, and dressed accordingly (to lower expectations. )

What a laugh though when someone with all the gear rolls up to the tee and makes an arse of it, but If you look a duffer, no one bats an eye.