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Come along this Saturday (28th) to the Burbage South Boulders for the Rockfax Bouldering Try-out Day. Test-drive a sample from the forthcoming Rockfax guidebook to Peak Bouldering, leap onto bouldering pads from 8 major brands, win your own pad!
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=5832
In reply to Vince McNally:
You mean positive climbing promotion at a climbing crag? (Craggs is a well known climber by the way).
Your problem being...?
You mean positive climbing promotion at a climbing crag? (Craggs is a well known climber by the way).
Your problem being...?
In reply to Vince McNally: Vince, it’s not the Petzl Roc Trip but a fun day out to try pads, check out the new guide and meet your fellow climbers. It’s a great interaction opportunity for those that want to get involved.
In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:
Well im sure it will be great for them.
I however feel constantly bombarded with adverts and marketing rubbish.
When I go outdoors its usually a chance to get away from all that.
The last thing I want when I go climbing is to bump into some kind of
crag to crag salesman.
Its just my opinion and im just putting it out there.
Well im sure it will be great for them.
I however feel constantly bombarded with adverts and marketing rubbish.
When I go outdoors its usually a chance to get away from all that.
The last thing I want when I go climbing is to bump into some kind of
crag to crag salesman.
Its just my opinion and im just putting it out there.
In reply to Vince McNally:
Hi Vince. There is stuff going on all this weekend in the Peak as part of the Alpkit Big Shakeout weekend - https://www.alpkit.com/bigshakeout/festival
There will be no sales taking place at the boulders. Hopefully some climbers will just enjoy the chance to meet some of those behind the gear they use and books they read.
Alan
Hi Vince. There is stuff going on all this weekend in the Peak as part of the Alpkit Big Shakeout weekend - https://www.alpkit.com/bigshakeout/festival
There will be no sales taking place at the boulders. Hopefully some climbers will just enjoy the chance to meet some of those behind the gear they use and books they read.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Im sure some people do enjoy these kind of things.
but lets call a spade a spade here, its a commercial enterprise aimed at promoting the brands involved.
They do this kind of thing at the indoor walls I visit. Seems like the appropriate place to me.
Im sure some people do enjoy these kind of things.
but lets call a spade a spade here, its a commercial enterprise aimed at promoting the brands involved.
They do this kind of thing at the indoor walls I visit. Seems like the appropriate place to me.
In reply to Vince McNally: I'm with you on this. Perhaps we should start a protest thread?
In reply to Vince McNally:
The beautiful thing about this website is that it has TOLD you where it is going to be, so you can avoid it. Easy really.
Your portrayal of this as some kind of double-glazing hard-sell is, in my view, waaaaay off the mark.
> (In reply to daimon)
>
> I however feel constantly bombarded with adverts and marketing rubbish.
> When I go outdoors its usually a chance to get away from all that.
> The last thing I want when I go climbing is to bump into some kind of
> crag to crag salesman.
>
>
> I however feel constantly bombarded with adverts and marketing rubbish.
> When I go outdoors its usually a chance to get away from all that.
> The last thing I want when I go climbing is to bump into some kind of
> crag to crag salesman.
>
The beautiful thing about this website is that it has TOLD you where it is going to be, so you can avoid it. Easy really.
Your portrayal of this as some kind of double-glazing hard-sell is, in my view, waaaaay off the mark.
In reply to Rampikino: Pity the poor souls who don't subscribe to UKC then. I think that you are missing the point and having to avoid the place is a part of the problem not the solution. I'm sure it's not a hard sell but to claim that there is no commercial motive is naive.
In reply to GridNorth:
I'm sure it's not a hard sell but to claim that there is no commercial motive is naive.
I made no such claim.
Shock horror, climbing company tries to promote its products in the very place where the activity takes place.
I'm sure it's not a hard sell but to claim that there is no commercial motive is naive.
I made no such claim.
Shock horror, climbing company tries to promote its products in the very place where the activity takes place.
In reply to Rampikino: I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't know if it's an age or an outlook thing but IMO National Parks are not the place for events and promotions like this.
In reply to Rampikino:
Oh well then as long as ive been TOLD
> (In reply to Vince McNally)
> [...]
>
> The beautiful thing about this website is that it has TOLD you where it is going to be, so you can avoid it.
> [...]
>
> The beautiful thing about this website is that it has TOLD you where it is going to be, so you can avoid it.
Oh well then as long as ive been TOLD
In reply to GridNorth:
Is your objection based on the thought that this is some kind of thin edge of the wedge whereby in a small matter of time you will not be able to go to your local crag without having someone trying to sell you climbing kit?
Also, what has the National Park got to do with it? Does it mean that if this takes place at a crag that is not in a National Park (and there are plenty) then it's perfectly fine?
Part of my confusion is that the argument appears to be that overt commerical activity at a crag should not be allowed. Does this mean that companies who provide commerical climbing courses should also not be allowed? Where is your dividing line?
Is your objection based on the thought that this is some kind of thin edge of the wedge whereby in a small matter of time you will not be able to go to your local crag without having someone trying to sell you climbing kit?
Also, what has the National Park got to do with it? Does it mean that if this takes place at a crag that is not in a National Park (and there are plenty) then it's perfectly fine?
Part of my confusion is that the argument appears to be that overt commerical activity at a crag should not be allowed. Does this mean that companies who provide commerical climbing courses should also not be allowed? Where is your dividing line?
In reply to Vince McNally: The problem here Vince is that we are doing the opposite of what we would like. By continuing to contribute to this thread we are promoting the very thing that we oppose. No amount of discussion will close the gap between those who approve and those who disapprove.
In reply to Rampikino: I agree it's a difficult dividing line but I think that this type of event crosses it. It will encourage atypical amounts of traffic, both human and cars. I suspect guiding companies have less impact in this regard.
In reply to GridNorth:
Clearly a direct comparison is impossible. I think at the heart of the matter for some will be the desire to go out and climb without having to encounter something at the crag that would spoil their enjoyment and is based around making money. I get that.
Whether it will have a negative impact is also hard to say. One of the worst things I have seen in the Burbage areas was the clay-shooting held over the back of the Fox House. The car park was crammed and the noise was not exactly pleasant either.
To me, as someone who neither approves or disapproves (I'm keeping an open mind as I've not seen such an event before), I would like to think that it would be organised sensitively and with a broad consideration of the climbing environment and users of the area. Time will tell I suppose.
Clearly a direct comparison is impossible. I think at the heart of the matter for some will be the desire to go out and climb without having to encounter something at the crag that would spoil their enjoyment and is based around making money. I get that.
Whether it will have a negative impact is also hard to say. One of the worst things I have seen in the Burbage areas was the clay-shooting held over the back of the Fox House. The car park was crammed and the noise was not exactly pleasant either.
To me, as someone who neither approves or disapproves (I'm keeping an open mind as I've not seen such an event before), I would like to think that it would be organised sensitively and with a broad consideration of the climbing environment and users of the area. Time will tell I suppose.
In reply to GridNorth:
I don't think a bunch of people for 4 or 5 hours on one day will result in more impact than an outdoor guiding/instruction company taking hundreds of people out to crags, on many days a week, year after year.
If you mean turning people who don't normally climb outdoors into outdoor climbers by this sort of promotion, then I suspect that the numbers will still be tiny. There is also a different debate to be had about whether or not that is a good thing or a bad thing. One of the main things the BMC does these days is try and promote climbing both outdoors and indoors so obviously they think it is a good thing.
Alan
> (In reply to Rampikino) I agree it's a difficult dividing line but I think that this type of event crosses it. It will encourage atypical amounts of traffic, both human and cars. I suspect guiding companies have less impact in this regard.
I don't think a bunch of people for 4 or 5 hours on one day will result in more impact than an outdoor guiding/instruction company taking hundreds of people out to crags, on many days a week, year after year.
If you mean turning people who don't normally climb outdoors into outdoor climbers by this sort of promotion, then I suspect that the numbers will still be tiny. There is also a different debate to be had about whether or not that is a good thing or a bad thing. One of the main things the BMC does these days is try and promote climbing both outdoors and indoors so obviously they think it is a good thing.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
> (In reply to GridNorth)
> [...]
>
> I don't think a bunch of people for 4 or 5 hours on one day will result in more impact than an outdoor guiding/instruction company taking hundreds of people out to crags, on many days a week, year after year.
>
But that is where I disagree. If it proves popular it will concentrate large numbers of people and cars in a small area over a very small period of time. That to me is the crux of the issue. I'm not sure how you could measure and compare the impact of the two activities however.> [...]
>
> I don't think a bunch of people for 4 or 5 hours on one day will result in more impact than an outdoor guiding/instruction company taking hundreds of people out to crags, on many days a week, year after year.
>
In reply to Rampikino:
No they shouldn't.
> (In reply to GridNorth)
> Part of my confusion is that the argument appears to be that overt commerical activity at a crag should not be allowed. Does this mean that companies who provide commerical climbing courses should also not be allowed?
No they shouldn't.
In reply to Rampikino:
There is no dividing line. Overt commercial activity at a crag should not be allowed.
> (In reply to GridNorth)
>
> Is your objection based on the thought that this is some kind of thin edge of the wedge whereby in a small matter of time you will not be able to go to your local crag without having someone trying to sell you climbing kit?
>
Yes partly.>
> Is your objection based on the thought that this is some kind of thin edge of the wedge whereby in a small matter of time you will not be able to go to your local crag without having someone trying to sell you climbing kit?
>
> Also, what has the National Park got to do with it? Does it mean that if this takes place at a crag that is not in a National Park (and there are plenty) then it's perfectly fine?
>
No but an argument could be made that it is less of an issue.>
> Part of my confusion is that the argument appears to be that overt commerical activity at a crag should not be allowed. Does this mean that companies who provide commerical climbing courses should also not be allowed? Where is your dividing line?
There is no dividing line. Overt commercial activity at a crag should not be allowed.
In reply to GridNorth: there are lots of shops, cafes, pubs etc in NPs. Should they not be allowed to operate?
In reply to GridNorth: You keep bumping this up
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Alan, have you done any checks on access for this? I don't see any problems but it might be worth a call to Henry.
Had you held it at Stanage, I suspect this is exactly the kind of event the National Park Authority will be seeking to profit from in future. Where they draw the line regarding guides/ group users remains to be seen.
Alan, have you done any checks on access for this? I don't see any problems but it might be worth a call to Henry.
Had you held it at Stanage, I suspect this is exactly the kind of event the National Park Authority will be seeking to profit from in future. Where they draw the line regarding guides/ group users remains to be seen.
In reply to Graeme Alderson: "Overt commercial activity at a crag should not be allowed". What has that got to do with shops and cafes? But now you come to mention it yes. If someone asked for planning permission to build a cafe on Stanage Edge I would object.
In reply to Adam Long:
I spoke to the the NT about it.
Agreed, Stanage would have been more sensitive.
Alan
> Alan, have you done any checks on access for this? I don't see any problems but it might be worth a call to Henry.
I spoke to the the NT about it.
Agreed, Stanage would have been more sensitive.
Alan
In reply to UKC Gear: Wow I wonder if this new guide will have some new problems in at the Burbage South Boulders? I for one cannot wait to find out...
In reply to GridNorth: I was responding to this post "I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't know if it's an age or an outlook thing but IMO National Parks are not the place for events and promotions like this" and making the point that NP's have massive amounts of commercial activity. Hathersage is in the NP.
Are you also against the coffee van at the Plantation car park and the ice cream van at Burbage bridge car park?
Are you also against the coffee van at the Plantation car park and the ice cream van at Burbage bridge car park?
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
OT but, I thought the coffee van at Stanage was no more. It'd be great news if it's there for the winter!
> Are you also against the coffee van at the Plantation car park and the ice cream van at Burbage bridge car park?
OT but, I thought the coffee van at Stanage was no more. It'd be great news if it's there for the winter!
In reply to Graeme Alderson: Yes but not to the same degree as they are on the road and not on the crag.
Someone has pointed out to me on email that the small parking at the end of the track, near the bridge is currently undergoing maintenance and best avoided. The roadside parking above the pub is the best place to leave your car, then walk over the moor to the South Quarry.
This is the approach we recommend in the download document.
Alan
In reply to GridNorth:
Like a bank holiday Monday? BAN THEM!
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
> [...]
> But that is where I disagree. If it proves popular it will concentrate large numbers of people and cars in a small area over a very small period of time.
> [...]
> But that is where I disagree. If it proves popular it will concentrate large numbers of people and cars in a small area over a very small period of time.
Like a bank holiday Monday? BAN THEM!
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Hi Al,
I think the point Adam was making about Stanage and the PDNPA was that in future they may welcome such commercially minded events on Stanage, but at a price!
cheers
Grham
Hi Al,
I think the point Adam was making about Stanage and the PDNPA was that in future they may welcome such commercially minded events on Stanage, but at a price!
cheers
Grham
In reply to UKC Gear:
This was a great afternoon out in the sunshine. Got to test out loads of bouldering mats, get a look at Burbage South pages of the new Peak Bouldering guide, meet others climbers and have fun.
I've read a few of the comments above, and yes this was to promote the new Rockfax Peak Bouldering guide coming out soon, which many people will buy, as it will have alot of the lower grades which have been grade tested to make sure they are accurate, as well as all the harder grades. Having the bouldering mats there to test out was a chance to make your own mind up on what you thought. There was no pressure to buy anything and it was a great opportunity to be able to ask questions and get answers from people who knew what they were talking about.
This was a great afternoon out in the sunshine. Got to test out loads of bouldering mats, get a look at Burbage South pages of the new Peak Bouldering guide, meet others climbers and have fun.
I've read a few of the comments above, and yes this was to promote the new Rockfax Peak Bouldering guide coming out soon, which many people will buy, as it will have alot of the lower grades which have been grade tested to make sure they are accurate, as well as all the harder grades. Having the bouldering mats there to test out was a chance to make your own mind up on what you thought. There was no pressure to buy anything and it was a great opportunity to be able to ask questions and get answers from people who knew what they were talking about.
In reply to emmaharrington:
Yes, the event was great and the contrast between the picture being painted in some posts above and what actually happened couldn't have been starker. It turned out to be just a collection of people enjoying themselves bouldering. We got some really helpful feedback for the guidebook as well and the pad suppliers who were there have also responded positively to me.
I'll do the prize draw later today if I get time.
I hope your ankle was okay for Sunday Emma.
Alan
Yes, the event was great and the contrast between the picture being painted in some posts above and what actually happened couldn't have been starker. It turned out to be just a collection of people enjoying themselves bouldering. We got some really helpful feedback for the guidebook as well and the pad suppliers who were there have also responded positively to me.
I'll do the prize draw later today if I get time.
I hope your ankle was okay for Sunday Emma.
Alan
In reply to galpinos:
The lovely "Beanabout" coffee van is no more, but there is a new van which also seems to be very good. No idea what hours/times they're planning to be there over the winter but I'm sure they'll at least be doing weekends.
Sorry, I mean DOWN WITH THIS KIND OF THING (careful now). ;O)
Not really, this type of thing doesn't seem like too much of a worry at all to me. Much less so than some of the commercial group malarky you see at the more popular Eastern grit crags.
> OT but, I thought the coffee van at Stanage was no more. It'd be great news if it's there for the winter!
The lovely "Beanabout" coffee van is no more, but there is a new van which also seems to be very good. No idea what hours/times they're planning to be there over the winter but I'm sure they'll at least be doing weekends.
Sorry, I mean DOWN WITH THIS KIND OF THING (careful now). ;O)
Not really, this type of thing doesn't seem like too much of a worry at all to me. Much less so than some of the commercial group malarky you see at the more popular Eastern grit crags.
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Yes I couldn't agree more. Fun day out for all. You must do more of these. Thanks Alan my ankle is ok. Just a little bruised. That ankle has a tendency to be weaker as I sprained it badly a couple of years ago. On Sunday I went on to lead my first VS which was easier than I expected. Onwards an upwards to HVS next! (Trad is rad!)
P.S Feedback for Pock...maybe it's harder than you have in the guidebook, or most probably...... I must get fitter for bouldering! I will tick it when I get the new Peak Bouldering guidebook.
Yes I couldn't agree more. Fun day out for all. You must do more of these. Thanks Alan my ankle is ok. Just a little bruised. That ankle has a tendency to be weaker as I sprained it badly a couple of years ago. On Sunday I went on to lead my first VS which was easier than I expected. Onwards an upwards to HVS next! (Trad is rad!)
P.S Feedback for Pock...maybe it's harder than you have in the guidebook, or most probably...... I must get fitter for bouldering! I will tick it when I get the new Peak Bouldering guidebook.
In reply to emmaharrington: No V2 is right. The last grade I remember it being was B3 which is probably V2.
In reply to emmaharrington: The grades of slopey gritstone problems when it's >10 Celsius quickly become meaningless!
In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:
I agree with the last two posts Pock is V2 (F6a) at the very most (we have it as V1 (F5+) on Offwidth as it's a sequency 5c at the start and really only 5b above) and it is harder (but still V2) on a warm summer day (or for the short). At Font it would be F5 of course.
My line on grading boulder problems its its easy to miss the trick and overgrade so editors need to be very careful with upgrades yet if it feels a grade easier or more it is almost certainly overgraded.
http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/burbages_boulders.html
I think folk need to really think hard about complaining about such an event. Commercial guided groups sometimes behave very badly and often dont seek permission like Alan did.
PS Alan: glad you've sorted out the parking/approach beta. Parking as per the old guidebook was a traffic offence since they added the double white lines near the bridge.
I agree with the last two posts Pock is V2 (F6a) at the very most (we have it as V1 (F5+) on Offwidth as it's a sequency 5c at the start and really only 5b above) and it is harder (but still V2) on a warm summer day (or for the short). At Font it would be F5 of course.
My line on grading boulder problems its its easy to miss the trick and overgrade so editors need to be very careful with upgrades yet if it feels a grade easier or more it is almost certainly overgraded.
http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/burbages_boulders.html
I think folk need to really think hard about complaining about such an event. Commercial guided groups sometimes behave very badly and often dont seek permission like Alan did.
PS Alan: glad you've sorted out the parking/approach beta. Parking as per the old guidebook was a traffic offence since they added the double white lines near the bridge.
In reply to Daimon - Rockfax: I know it's a V2. Must be my climbing at the mo...
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