UKC

So, inspired by Peak Rock, I went out and bought the splendid historical document 'Rock Climbs on the Mountain Limestone of Derbyshire'.

It smells particularly lovely - like hymnbooks in my Methodist childhood - and it's a great read and very interesting historically, but my question is - MOUNTAIN limestone?? How on earth did they persuade themselves that, say, Prayer Wheel Wall was a mountain?

So my question is – is ‘Mountain Limestone’ a geological term of art? Or what is it?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
As a geologist (albeit a highly mediocre one) I’ve never heard the phrase mountain limestone before, presumable there mean limestone what is to be found in the mountains – which doesn’t really make any sense – I can’t think any difference between limestone at the top of a mountain and at the bottom of one, I don’t think geology really cares about the topography when naming rocks.

In reply to ebdon:

Well, googling my question I find -

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mountain%20limestone

that it is indeed a term of art, meaning a particular type of limestone, apparently peculiar to the UK. How strange.

Anyone know more about why it's so called?!

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

It's because it's in the peaks.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Never heard of it (though I am no longer a geologist and only did it to PhD level plus fieldwork).

There is also talk of "mountain rock" in various books which doesn't, so far as I am aware, have any real geological meaning.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Actually John I think it was just a foible of Gray West, the author, it was supposed to indicate that climbing on Peak Limestone was just more like climbing in the mountains of Wales, Scotland etc, than on gritstone.
Actually sadly I don't have that guidebook to look at anymore, though it was formative to my climbing youth, but didn't it also have a section on climbing on 'dolomitic' limestone at Brassington and Harborough?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I think it may be an old name for Carboniferous Limestone - not a clue why it is "Mountain" Limestone. I think much of the Alps is Jurrasic Limestone (as in Jura and Jorasses) which is more recent stuff,


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:


As I think you may be trying to say, the Jurassic in that context denotes a geologic period in time, not just the area (after which the period is admittedly named).

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Yes, I think Chris is right. It isn't I believe a term you'll find in a geology textbook, but it is just that the other limestones in the UK don't tend to form anything even as big as the "Mountains" of the Peak (singular, please). The Jurassic limestone in the UK is often quite soft - can be cut with a saw to make building stone as in Somerset - and accordingly the features it produces, like the Cotswolds, wouldn't be termed mountains by anybody.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I was figuring it was just a name they gave to upland Limestone in Yorkshire and the peaks, as opposed to valley limestone. Both Carboniferous deposits, but different 'feel' for Climbing on.

In reply to Choss:


There, fixed that for you

In reply to Rog Wilko:


Somerset limestone is Carboniferous. The soft Jurassic oolitic limestones come From Gloucestershire and Wiltshire, the Latter being sawable with a frig saw not dependent on bedding, hence called Freestone.

Oolitic limestone does outcrop at ham hill i believe, but not sure if thats Somerset or Dorset.

In reply to Al Evans:


Not on the west side of that region

In reply to Rog Wilko:


You mean like the Jurassic limestone at Portland ?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Geologically speaking the term is completely meaningless.

But in stratigraphy it is an old geological term for the Carboniferous limestones of northern England. Looking at the BGS lexicon it appears to be a very old remnant term from old literature, before the standardisation of stratigraphic nomenclature.

e.g. Phillips J, 1836. Illustrations of the Geology of Yorkshire, Part ii. The Mountain Limestone District. (London:John Murray)

In reply to GrendeI:
Good spot.

Not just the north though; the Clwyd carboniferous limestone has also in the past been termed Mountain Limestone

https://www.bgs.ac.uk/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?pub=CLWYD

So, yes, previously you might have used this for Carboniferous limestone in the UK or at least groups within that.

In reply to Choss:



Yes, I know the Mendips are Carboniferous. When I said Somerset I was thinking of Bath, but I suppose that's Avon now.

In reply to Skyfall:

Well, to be fair, I did say "often". There isn't much climbing on the Jurassic limestone north of Somerset.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

It smells of hymnbooks because god made it ...creationism ... Amen

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I would have guessed that the reference is to the type of weather the rock is exposed to, resulting in different weathering patterns, vegetation type and quantity. Here in the Alps the distinction between valley limestone crags and mountain limestone crags is clear enough, in the UK maybe it's a bit less.