UKC

Hi, I am looking for some advice, me and my partner are looking at going to the Alps in summer for a few days and doing an alpine intro style course.
We both have some experience in the UK but have not done anything abroad.
Both been only young and recently buying our first house means we don't have much money!
We are looking at driving and camping to save money but the guide is going to cost the most even for 3 days it is a lot of money for us to pay.

Do you have any advice on how to keep things cheap? We have looked at staying in Saas Grund as you get a free lift pass if you stay in the area, plus there is some "easier" 4000m peaks there which we could do with a guide.

So ideas on how to keep things cheap as poss and any cheap guides out there????

P.s I understand the guides need to make a living out there though.

Thanks in advance for any help

In reply to mc2006:

I will be honest and say that I don't understand why so many climbers feel the need of a guide these days. Get the BMC Alpine DVD and practice the things you learn from it. I have never had a lesson in my life but I have still managed to climb the 6 grande courses in the Alps.

In reply to mc2006:

How young are you both? A course with the Jonathon Conville Trust is a great inexpensive way to get a grounding in alpine mountaineering.
think they are available untill you are 25ish
HTH

In reply to GridNorth:

I suppose it more to do with confidence by having a guide there. Especially the first time.

In reply to thegoatstroker:
My partner is 23 and I am 26 in April. We looked at that course and its too late to apply for it now for this yea which is a shame because it would have being perfect.
Infact im wrong we couldn't apply for it because the dates they have I can't make.

In reply to mc2006:

I agree with those who suggest learning from books and DVDs, heading off to the UK hills to practice moving together etc, and then just getting out there and doing it for real. Your caution is your ally.

If you stick to trade routes in popular areas such as the Ecrins and pick your routes carefully, there'll be other people around on easier routes and well trodden trenches in the snow to follow.

Another option would be to join a club...

In reply to Solaris:

Ok thanks for the advice. I will look into clubs in my area as that sounds a good idea.

In reply to mc2006:

Hi,

I agree with the learning from books thing. It's definitely worth practising crevasse rescue on your local crag and maybe doing some scrambles moving together with a rope. If your planning something a bit more technical get used to taking coils off and putting them back on quickly and efficiently.

Do some easy routes first. Walk steadily at new altitudes, don't blast it and end up going stop start: this is bad for acclimatisation. The place where many people lose time is on long stops and faff with ropes, gear and crampons. Keep hydrated and well fed as much as possible, dehydration and hypoglycaemia are often confused with AMS type symptoms.

The bottom line is, if you use a guide it will be expensive. That said, they really are experts in their field and deserve every penny they get.

Best advice I can give is:

Get fit! Then:

Get really fit!

Hope that helps

Jon

In reply to Jon Wylie:
The Conville is notorious for having people not attend/take up places, badly organised applications etc. Multiple people I know have been messed around, have sent applications after the deadline, or similar, so it might be worth checking directly what the state of play is regarding applications and not just accept the website as the final word!

In reply to LJC:

Ok I will contact the trust and enquire. Worth a try.

In reply to mc2006:

I think guides are good value- Saas is a good plan, several straightforward peaks but it is still possible to fall in a crevasse or get hit by an afternoon thunderstorm.
The advice on fitness, scrambling & Conville all good.

In reply to mc2006:

You are going to the right place for a start. I think you will find there are group ascents of the easy 4000m peaks there such as the Allalinhorn and the Breithorn round the corner. These will be considerably cheaper than hiring an individual guide. I actually soloed these, very straightforward routes. Climbed a couple of other peaks in the area with my teenage daughter.

In reply to mc2006:

Bear in mind that some continental guides might not realize that you want them to actually teach you the ropes rather than just get you up and down as safely as possible. So you would need to make sure they understood this in advance. This also makes language skills critcal.

Despite having worked (and still occasionally) as a guide myself, I agree with some other posters that you can teach yourself with a little advice from friends and by staying well within your limits. You might "achieve less" in numbers but you will achieve more in real terms.

In reply to mc2006:

I would echo others. The BMC Alpine Skills dvd coupled with Bruce Goodlad's excellent book that also describes some great beginner routes.
Also, perhaps fill in your profile on here because then people may know specific clubs in your area or people in your area going to the alps who may be willing to show you the ropes could contact you.
Have fun

In reply to Mark / Alps:

Ok I will update my profile, I appreciate the advice from everyone. Cheers

In reply to mc2006:

No luck with the conville trust, they stop doing the course first week in July and def cant do it after that.

Our best bet would be to find someone willing to go with us or to tag along with others who we can learn off. So I may be best looking into local clubs I guess as me or my partner do not know anyone who is into mountaineering/climbing etc.

In reply to mc2006:

http://leedsmc.org/meets-calendar

There you go- local club with an Alps meet.

In reply to Jasonic:

Cheers, will look into it.

In reply to mc2006:

An option We are looking at is a guide for 3 days and finding 1 or 2 others in the same boat who can come with the same guide so we are sharing the price between four of us.

Or finding someone who will be out there who would be willing to share their knowledge and skills with us and teach us.

I can hope.

In reply to mc2006:

Probably not want to hear but to expect an experienced Alpinist on their two/three week annual jaunt to take on two novices and 'share their knowledge and skills' with you is, I think, a big ask. As is I think joining a club who have an Alpine meet and expecting some kind of training - what do you propose to give back to the club or it's members to recriprocate for this?

I think you need to appreciate that for most people this is their annual holiday and their aim is likely to be to get as much done as possible and teaching novices is, I suspect, unlikely to feature in this.

I may be wrong of course and you may find some kindly soul who will take you under their wing.

In reply to Doghouse:

I take your point, but acclimatisation ("training") routes are often at a suitable grade for novices, and so long as they are fit and competent with axe, crampons, and rope work there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to tag along with an experienced team. I've done this on a couple of occasions and have found it has its own satisfactions.

All of which said, I do still think that the OP would be OK buying a book and DVD or two, practising on suitable routes in the UK and then taking their caution and their keenness to the alps with them.

In reply to Doghouse:
I understand where your coming from, but we all got to start somewhere & I don’t want to be paying a grand for some training if I can help it!

In reply to Doghouse:




Got to say I have done just that, and taken my less-experienced friends out there each year for nearly 10 years now. That way, our Facebook group has grown in capability and self-reliance, and a few of the guys climb harder than me now.
OK, we don't climb hard (AD), but 7 of us made the summit of MB as two ropes again this year, Cosmiques, lots of 4000ers etc.
I enjoy watching the guys improve, and I always feel it helps me consolidate my (basic) skills by passing it on.
We'll be in Saas this year, camping, 20th July for two weeks. I can't offer any help lads, as I'll have my hands full, but come and say hello if you're there at the same time, and we can certainly give you route advice etc.

Cheers

In reply to JohnnyW:

Its good to know there is helpful people out there. If we are there at the same time as you we could meet for a drink.