UKC

Access is at risk in Cheddar Gorge, Somerset. Everyone climbing at Cheddar must have third party liability insurance, and must keep away from several banned areas.

These rules are being regularly broken, and when approached by Cheddar Gorge staff, some climbers are being aggressive...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68927

In reply to UKC News:

Unless I'm out of date, this article is slightly inaccurate. The insurance requirements apply only to the south side of the gorge, owned by a private company. The north side is owned by the national trust and, whilst there are still extensive restrictions the insurance requirement is not one of them.

In reply to Oujmik:

What ARE the restrictions on North Side crags? I thought basically all the sport climbing on the N side is open year round, but in a moment of work avoidance I checked the BMC website. The RAD page and the Access Calendar PDF both give a list of crags are open year round, but they list different crags, and neither of them says which crags are closed. Cheddar access was always a bit confusing, but it seems even the BMC aren't sure...!

RAD web page says these are open year round :
Arch Rock, Easter Island, French Pinnacle, Heart Leaf Bluff, Hounds Bluff, Lion Rock, Nameless Bay, Overshoot Wall, Pride Evans Cliff, Subsidiary Walls (lower tier), Secret Solo Bluff, Stepped Wall, The Narrows, The Wave, The Remnant, The Niche, The Tsunami

Access Calendar PDF says these are open year round :
Pride Evans Cliff, Heart Leaf Bluff, The Wave, The Narrows, Arch Rock, Stepped Wall, Overshoot Wall, Lion Rock, The Remnant

In reply to Jim Brooke:


Sounds like you just print off the list that doesn't include the crag you want to climb on when you go then. [stir, stir, stir]

In reply to Jim Brooke:

Now I've compared against Martin Crocker's 2009 guide, which says something slightly different again. Very similar to the RAD web page, but it says parts of Nameless Bay (Micawber Buttress, Mare's Nest Buttress, Danemark Cliff) are winter only. The book also mentions Sun Hole and 5b wall as being prohibited year round, which neither the RAD page or the Access Calendar mention....

In reply to UKC News:

The people I've had to politely inform that they aren't meant to be climbing on the southside have almost always come across as arrogant tw*ts. Maybe not a coincidence...

In reply to UKC News:

Very sad to hear people are both breaching South side bans and being aggressive.

It's an amazing venue and Mr Crocker still does his best to politely tell climbers the access arrangements.

Hope people see sense!

In reply to Jim Brooke:


I believe the North side (or at least nearly all of it, looking at the maps?) is CROW land (which means access is guaranteed?). That said, it would be irresponsible (if not illegal) to climb at 5b wall; I don't know where Sun Hole is. It would also be best to follow the guide regarding the winter restrictions even on the North side (the restrictions in Cheddar seem to be for very sensible and considered reasons).

In reply to andrewmcleod:


CRoW only allows access for walking, not climbing unfortunately. So you are at perfect liberty to walk to the base of routes in CRoW land. Climbing on the other hand isn't a right...

Mehmet

In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

interesting... is scrambling access allowed by CRoW? what about (therefore) soloing? just a bit more of an adventurous walk?

In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

I thought climbing was allowed by CRoW? We have a similar issue in caving, where you still have to apply for permission to go down caves on CRoW land, nobody seems sure of what CRoW does and doesn't allow.

In reply to Red Rover:

It says you can climb on CRoW land here...

http://www.naturalengland.gov.uk/ourwork/access/openaccess/default.aspx

In reply to cha1n:


I've had the same, unfortunately.

In reply to James Jackson:
Interesting to read the detail on the bmc site - the examples given of people flouting access are pretty shameful.

Good however to read the comments and to see the majority of people appreciate the access situation.

Happily when we've told some people on the south side about the access, they've moved on apologetically.

In reply to DrGav:

I deplore people who break the agreement, but do think it's confusing for non-regulars and even for local people like me without kids who don't always know when the school holidays are. I would like to see simple, clear signs at the bottom of each crag.

In reply to UKC News:

Had an encounter with a very confrontational local and his mate whilst climbing on some of the sports routes on the south side today. He insisted we weren't allowed to climb. I promised him I had checked the access agreement and we where. He wasn't from the caves staff and was off to complain to Martin Crocker about climbers breaking the agreement. I was pretty polite, but he wasn't.

In reply to John Alcock:

Maybe, but just in the same way that we have to educate ourselves about the access agreements, with the advent of internet(!) it shouldn't be too hard to check LEA school holiday arrangements. Surely there's enough visual clutter in the world without sticking up another sign.

In reply to UKC News:I agree that the restrictions should be clearly displayed in the gorge itself. At the base of some of the crags, the notices do not need to be in full view of all the tourist or even on all the closed sectors, just a couple of strategically placed sheets would raise awareness over the year. Restriction notices in the window of the gift shop and gorge outdoors would also be a good idea.
Tom

In reply to Dominic Green:

Don’t rely on the LEA website, check the BMC RAD!

Tom

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Looking at the website you would appear, on the surface at least to be correct. I suspect that if you look in the "small print" (and I haven't yet looked) you have a right of access, but it is still subject to various caveats.
Everyone is familar with landowners being able to restrict access to moorland during shooting or during periods of very dry weather.
I would also expect to see a clause somewhere in the regs that allows landowners or regulators to restrict access for reasons of public safety.

That is all I have to say in relation to 1poundSOCKS valid and worthwhile post. What follows is in no way a reply to what they have said.

If injury was caused to the public during a period when restrictions were clearly posted, then the individuals who caused it would not have a good day in court. By court I do mean things like manslaughter charges etc. Quite apart from the small matter of going to prison, there's the crushing blow of knowing you've killed someone else that will never leave you.

Climbing in breach of posted restrictions, would probably be a breach of the conditions of the 3rd party insurance that an individual is required to have as a condition of access. So if for example you dropped a rock on someones parked car with no one injured, you could still expect a civil case for damages that won't be covered by the insurance. As a skint climber you cannot afford this!

Regardless of whether there is CRoW access or not, the day that a member of public is killed or seriously injured by falling rock (or dropped gear!) is the day legal climbing in the gorge, and possibly a number of other locations could be stopped forever.

In reply to Jim Brooke:


I see what you mean - in fairness the other link (ie apart from the Calendar) on the RAD page for the North side does quote directly from Martin C's book.

North Side

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=416

CLIMBING AREAS PROHIBITED
Sun Hole The cave is a scheduled monument
5b Wall Except Death of Fridays which is located behind the bund

CLIMBING RESTRICTED TO WINTER (1ST OCTOBER – 15TH MARCH)
Prospect Tier Restricted because of the risk of dislodging rock into the
road
Nameless Bay: Micawber Buttress, Mare’s Nest Buttress, Danemark Cliff
Restricted because of the risk of dislodging rock into an area often busy with visitors

In reply to UKC News:

I climb at the Gorge every now and then and I find really confusing to understand the ban. I normally opt for something I know is for sure safe like remnant or Lions rock. But I can see why so many punters would get it wrong without even knowing.

I think the first thing would be re-designing that guidebook, the information is just no clear. You could have as you open the book a big red page saying "you are climbing on private property, make sure you respect the bans, unless you want to loose access altogether". Followed by a very clear (not the current) chart of ban restrictions. I would also add brash and loud icons on each crag specifying the ban on that particular wall. Believe it or not, most offenders would be used to the Rockfax type of guidebook, so if the open the page and don't see any restriction icons or warning they would think it's OK to climb (I've seen it with my own eyes).

I know it sounds idiot proof, but even some of my well versed climber friends didn't even know it was private property.

In reply to Ramon Marin:


It says at the top of every page, in a big coloured bar, whether it is Winter, Summer (non-peak) or all-year access. The book is arranged with the South side crags (either winter or summer season) at the start and North side crags (all-year access) at the end. How much clearer can you get?

In reply to all: Sorry for not responding earlier to this thread - I've been away at meetings and site visits around the country for the last week or so and just getting round to catching up now.

In response to the idea of signage, we have mentioned this again to CC&G recently and offered to fund any signs they would be happy to be put up. At the moment, they don't want to go down that road, but the offer is there from the BMC if they ever change their minds. Regardless, lack of signage isn't an excuse for climbing on restricted areas during closed season.

After a few comments I've received about the Cheddar RAD pages being confusing (mostly due to a weird formatting issue that clumped all the text together making it hard to read I think, plus some discrepancies in info), I've gone through both entries and hopefully made them easier to read and understand. I'm happy to have any feedback though (preferably by email as that get's checked more often than UKC) if anything doesn't make sense:

South Side: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=930
North Side: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/viewcrag.aspx?id=929


The take home message though is that the Cheddar access calendar is the definitive source of information of which crags can be accessed and when. I'd recommend any Cheddar climber to print off a copy each year and keep it in the front of your guidebook. You can download it here: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=807

Cheers,
Rob
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (England)

In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

Hi Mehmet,

I'm afraid that's incorrect - climbing is defined as a permitted activity under CRoW and is something the BMC fought hard to be included in the legislation. Recreational climbers have a legal right of access to CRoW land (so most but not all of the crags on the north side of the Gorge), however this doesn't extend to commercial use. I hope that clears things up.

Cheers,
Rob
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (England)

In reply to andrewmcleod:

I've seen that "winter" "summer" bar being ignored, people don't know what it means. I know what it means, but the gym monkey coming out of the city don't. What I'm saying is that it should say "no climbing from x to z", like the rockfax guides i guess, simple rewording but it's clearer message. They see winter and they think it's a good crag for winter days or something like that, and they proceed to climb anyways oblivious they are breaking the ban.

In reply to UKC News:
I realise a lot of careful negotiations went into arranging access at Cheddar, but I too find it confusing at first and usually tend to go for the easy option of the North side crags.

I suggest putting the access restrictions into the UKC database on a route by route basis, so you can see immediately whether you can climb a route or not at any given time. The BMC Cheddar Access Calendar might be the definitive guide, but it takes some decoding.

If I wanted to climb at, say, High Rock, the Calendar says:
"High Rock. Lower left wing: Play the White Man to Sherryland (single-pitch routes only). Right wing: The Twilight of Imperialism to Dada (single-pitch routes only)"
I'd need to find the 4 different named routes (which I don't know) to work out which of the 75 routes listed at High Rock lay in the permitted range. Not a problem if you are familiar with the place, and/or involved in writing guidebooks and access calendars, but it is not obvious...