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Yobs throw bottles down at Avon climbers

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RocMonki 19 May 2014
You're at your 3rd pitch after a leisurely stroll up the classic Morpheus, when an empty bottle passes by, then a can, then another bottle. Above the wind and traffic below you hear the brain dead chants of football numbskulls. Your leader slips and decks, gets back up and then feels drops of liquid on her face, fortunately its not pee but beer, she gets herself together and continues, politely telling the idiots to be careful, only to find another bottle passing by accompanied with the usual deranged chanting. The goal is then to get off asap, you wish you were shaking with fear instead of blind fury and make a swift lead through to the top and then the confrontation.

Fortunately, your partner approaches them first, as you try to calmly gather your thoughts and rope, she is a woman who works in a male dominated environment and knows how to handle 'men'. Then you approach with one of the discarded bottles you found on the upper ledge, and have a verbal release which ends in 'how would you like a bottle wrapped around your head' (whilst explaining the tragic dangers of gravity when throwing bottles down at climbers working their way up)......whoops...numbskull now wants to show you his large cycle lock. Your partner wisely tells you to back down, you both leave and are wary of the fact that you might be hit with a barrage of rocks whilst returning to your vehicles in the car park below...fortunately you both get away without further issue and call the police.

How to deal with situations like this?

If you are in the car park below and see projectiles coming down the cliff, please ring the police immediately instead of just looking up, especially if you are a company which takes other folks out climbing.

Do not approach yobs, always call the police and give them your precise location.

Make sure you're wearing a helmet.

This situation could have had a tragic end, the police were great and were shown the 'yob den' at the top of the gorge, that's not to say that idiots will no longer frequent said location.

Alternatively.....(your opinions on the matter please)..

 Trangia 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

What a horrible situation. I agree that it's definitely a case for the police and you were right to avoid serious confrontation. I would hope the police will treat an incident like this very seriously as it could have resulted in serious injury, even death
In reply to Trangia:

>What a horrible situation.

Regular local hazard, I'm afraid.

>I would hope the police will treat an incident like this very seriously as it could have resulted in serious injury, even death

They won't, of course.

jcm
 d_b 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

This is what happens when you ban guns!

Er.

Yeah, I think all you can reasonably do is back off and call the police. I hope this is a one off.
 Choss 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

City crag, comes with all the Trappings of city Life.
 Firestarter 19 May 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

And you are predicting non-response from the police based on....?
 muppetfilter 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

To Quote the Untouchables....

They Throw a bottle You throw A Camalot 4,

They pull A Bike Lock You Pull a Hex 11.
In reply to Firestarter:
> And you are predicting non-response from the police based on....?

Let's call it a wild guess. Happy to be wrong, of course; in a just world the perpetrators would be executed.

jcm
Post edited at 18:17
 Trevers 19 May 2014
reply to RocMonki:

Revenge fantasy would be simply to throw them off the top of Morpheus. Well done to your partner for handling it so maturely!

When did this happen? Is it a regular thing at the gorge?
 clivecops 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:
Being a serving police officer and a member on the police rope access team, I am fair to say I would have delt with it....... And rest assured next time we are training there I will keep an eye out for these kind please remember we are not all bad !!!
Climb safe people
 Choss 19 May 2014
In reply to Trevers:

To be fair, not often no. But The downs above the gorge is a popular good weather gathering and Drinking area for all sorts of groups in a big city. will happen Occasionally, Especially on sunny weekends.
 Monk 19 May 2014
In reply to Trevers:

> reply to RocMonki:

> Revenge fantasy would be simply to throw them off the top of Morpheus. Well done to your partner for handling it so maturely!

> When did this happen? Is it a regular thing at the gorge?

I've been climbing at Avon for years and have never experienced this. I guess its always a possibility, but a rare occurrence. Most people want to ask questions our take a photo!
Removed User 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Rosyth quarry has/used to have visiting neds, I never had any issues but have heard of people who did. I did once see a stoned youth soloing a vdiff in his trainers while calling my mate a poof for having a rope on. It was quite funny.

Your experience sounds terrible. It is always tempting on these threads to resort to the baby oil and chest beating 'I'd have done this' etc, but you dealt with it pretty well I'd say, better than getting stabbed or done for assault. I guess you need enough witnesses to prod the cops into action, chucking things down a cliff at climbers is pretty f*cking serious in my book

Anyway I'm sure Lemming and Stroppygob will be along to tell you to man up as it's just kids having fun innit etc.
 Choss 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Perhaps they were locals From the council Estates neighbouring Trym Valley, and took exception to the way they are Painted in the Climbers club guide, and took offence?
 Peter Milner 19 May 2014
In reply to Monk:

I've been narrowly missed by rocks lobbed off the Downs 2 or 3 times, although the perpetrators probably couldn't see me at the time - they were probably just randomly throwing rocks off the top. During the Ashton Court festival a few years back (when the bridge was the main route there) I had bottles raining down on me on Suspension Bridge Buttress.
Removed User 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Well as you all know I'm not normally prone to doing things that would cause harm to others, but in this case I'd be sorely tempted to get the Tazer out and let the perp(s) have a taste of the Tazer by aiming a shot at the back of his throat if he decided to open his mouth in response. Then I'd call the police, before exiting stage left.
In reply to RocMonki:

Sadly it's nothing new. It was just an additional 'objective danger' to factor in when climbing at places like Auchinstarry or Rosyth Quaries back in the 90's.

It's a lot less worrying than being shot at whilst climbing in Oman!

Glad you got off safely.
 The Pylon King 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

And people ask me why i climb at quiet esoteric crags and not Avon and Cheddar!
 Tradical 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Couple of kids chucking rocks down Hodge Close the other day, no parents around. I don't blame the kids; kids don't think about consequences and might not be aware of climbers and the such, they just want to make splashy in the water. Thankfully we scared them off with foul language and threats of violence - this won't work with the yobbos.

PS Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
 GridNorth 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

You think that's bad? The barriers at the top of main wall that look like telegraph poles were put up several years ago because a car went over the edge.
 Trevers 19 May 2014
In reply to GridNorth:

> You think that's bad? The barriers at the top of main wall that look like telegraph poles were put up several years ago because a car went over the edge.

That's a very niche type of objective hazard on a route
 Gordonbp 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Bristolians! What do you expect?
(And yes I was born and bred there but left when I was 17 never to return....)

 Choss 19 May 2014
In reply to Gordonbp:
> Bristolians! What do you expect?

> (And yes I was born and bred there but left when I was 17 never to return....)

The best city and the best people in gods whole earth!!!

Come on BristolIans, represent!
Post edited at 21:33
 alan moore 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:
While yours was obviously a nasty experience, the act of chucking things off cliffs has a lot longer history and social entrenchment than the act of climbing up them.....it's dangerous and irresponsible but maybe almost normal??
Post edited at 21:42
James Jackson 19 May 2014
In reply to GridNorth:

> You think that's bad? The barriers at the top of main wall that look like telegraph poles were put up several years ago because a car went over the edge.

My climbing was interrupted a good few years ago because a woman went over the edge. Not a happy memory.
RocMonki 19 May 2014
In reply to all:

Modifications in italics to be added to CC Avon guide

3. 12m. Climb the open chimney (peg) formed by a monolithic bloc to the right, being careful not to slip on the beer underfoot emanating from the discarded bottles and cans being hurtled from the enthused onlookers above you, proceed on comforting jugs to peg and nut belays. (A pleasant and long-established variation is to climb the front slab of the monolith.)

4 12m. Move up to a small tree holding on to your temper and then step right to a scoop containing broken glass. Climb a shallow groove and a line of ledges to a large ledge at the top on the right to a collection of bottles and fag packets to the uplifing drones of football chants. Proceed with caution with tazer and hex 11.


 Merlin 19 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

I find the only solution for this is a long term approach; drive the price of housing up so yobs can't afford to live there
 David Coley 20 May 2014
In reply to James Jackson:

> My climbing was interrupted a good few years ago because a woman went over the edge. Not a happy memory.

Ditto
In reply to Removed User:

> (In reply to Removed UserRocMonki)

> Anyway I'm sure Lemming and Stroppygob will be along to tell you to man up as it's just kids having fun innit etc.

I think he should have held a group hug, and started some trust games, to explore and share the emotions associated with being bottled on a route by disadvantaged youths, youths who obviously have had scarred upbringings and feel disenfranchised from society, (possibly with them having substance issues and mental health problems too!) Counselling should have been offered, along with a drum circle, and a yurt could have been erected for a smoke lodge. Then when everybody’s chi is in harmony, and they all felt a worthwhile part of the whole, handmade gifts of knitted organic dream-catchers could have been exchanged and Maori nose rubbing shared.



He started it.
Post edited at 06:43
 Dave Garnett 20 May 2014
In reply to Merlin:
> (In reply to RocMonki)
>
> I find the only solution for this is a long term approach; drive the price of housing up so yobs can't afford to live there

I'm sure that's already true in Clifton! What you need is a gated solution to keep them from visiting...
 Gordonbp 20 May 2014
In reply to Choss:

I believe it's now a very good city to live in - wasn't when I did!
 leland stamper 20 May 2014
In reply to stroppygob:

The assumption is that these"yobs" are deprived youth from the badlands of council estates to the west of the gorge. My own experience is that they are more likely from the overprivelged and undereducated area of nearby Clifton . I can't imagine too many bristolians wanting to sing about football at the moment . Could we not create a fence around this small but insufferable area of a great city,
 Jonny2vests 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

> How to deal with situations like this?

> If you are in the car park below and see projectiles coming down the cliff, please ring the police immediately instead of just looking up, especially if you are a company which takes other folks out climbing.

> Do not approach yobs, always call the police and give them your precise location.

I'm not sure I agree with your advice or indeed why you feel you need to advise us. This has happened to me more than once, confrontation, if you think the odds are in your favour, isn't an option I would rule out so easily.
 Yanis Nayu 20 May 2014
In reply to Choss:

> The best city and the best people in gods whole earth!!!

> Come on BristolIans, represent!

There can't be too much wrong with people from a city named after a big pair of jiggly boobs.
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to RocMonki)
>
> To Quote the Untouchables....
>
> They Throw a bottle You throw A Camalot 4,
>
> They pull A Bike Lock You Pull a Hex 11.

They beat you to death and...
Bruce6571 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

i have witnessed people throwing stuff from the top at other climbers. lucky for them by the time i had untied and ran after them they had taken the sesible decision to stop throwing stuff and run away. (and yes before it starts....i just topped out, and my belayer was still on the ground, as we were at the Jasper end of sea walls, looking over towards Morpheous).
 coreybennett 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

get a 120cm sling and find a chockstone at the bottom of the crag, then larksfoot the sling around the stone and swing faster than a windmill then throw, if they dont get the idea then repeat the process.
 Trevers 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Carry an ice axe just in case?
RocMonki 20 May 2014
In reply to Jonny2vests:

> I'm not sure I agree with your advice or indeed why you feel you need to advise us. This has happened to me more than once, confrontation, if you think the odds are in your favour, isn't an option I would rule out so easily.

Apologies if my post comes across as advisory, that wasn’t my intention, I merely wanted to reflect upon, and express my experiences of an unfamiliar situation, so other folks reading this post who may have the misfortune of a similar encounter can draw upon what has been discussed, I assume rightly or wrongly that is the purpose of a forum.

Obviously in your neck of the woods this has happened to you on more than one occasion, whereas this is the first time I have had such an encounter, as I prefer climbing out in the wilds, as opposed to near cities. Unlike the majority of us, you have experience in dealing with such matters, my advice and the advice of others, is therefore of little use to you. Perhaps you can advise us as to how you would have dealt with the situation or how you previously dealt with similar situations….i.e baby oil and chest beating, police/ no police, taser, hex 11, 120cm sling and chockstone, ice axe, group hug, increase house prices or reinstate gun ownership?

As to the alternatives offered thus far, Stroppygob’s is the most poignant, though I think glittery candlelit aromatherapy would be less harmful than dirty smoke in the lodge of cuddly climber consolation.


 muppetfilter 20 May 2014
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> They beat you to death and...

I was thinking more along the lines of Pistol Whipping, well hex whipping the largest one in the face until he is spitting teeth then moving on to the next... repeat until they either run off or are clutching their faces moaning and bleeding.If you start with the largest one before they have time to react then the others tend to reconsider their lifestyle choices.
 funsized 20 May 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> Happy to be wrong, of course; in a just world the perpetrators would be executed.

That is some lazy trolling. Get some class.
 Jonny2vests 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

> Obviously in your neck of the woods this has happened to you on more than one occasion, whereas this is the first time I have had such an encounter, as I prefer climbing out in the wilds, as opposed to near cities.

Yeah, round here its knee deep in chavs, shoes on power lines and bike tyres over lampposts, as far as the eye can see.

> Unlike the majority of us, you have experience in dealing with such matters, my advice and the advice of others, is therefore of little use to you. Perhaps you can advise us as to how you would have dealt with the situation or how you previously dealt with similar situations

Elaborate torture involving a hatstand and an Owl.

Or we could put them in a room with Stroppygob, Blizzard and Bruce Hooker for 10 minutes (too long?).
 robbo99 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

not sure why drinking/being drunk gives you the right to act like a proper tw*t... littering is bad enough (and illegal) let alone throwing your litter off a cliff where climbers are known to be present.

i hope (but very much doubt) the police actually took some action instead of acting like the toothless idiots they (usually, in my experience) are.
 Choss 20 May 2014
In reply to Jonny2vests:

> Or we could put them in a room with Stroppygob, Blizzard and Bruce Hooker for 10 minutes (too long?).

Do that and ill be referring you to the International Criminal court and requesting an international Arrest Warrant! Dear God, Talk about inhumane treatment.

 Dave Hewitt 20 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:
It's not just crags and it's not just neds. Last summer my better half and I were on Dumyat one sunny evening and quite a large group of student-age Americans arrived - of the gleaming teeth / very polite / thick as mince variety. A couple of them gathered some stones and started flinging/skimming them down the Menstrie side of the hill. I don't often shout and swear at people but I shouted and swore at them, and also went in search of the group leader. They stopped forthwith, and were very polite (one even called me "Sir"), but it didn't seem to have occurred to them that people might be coming up that way - and indeed a few minutes later a bloke and his son appeared from that side, thankfully uninjured.

And more recently on the same hilltop, a friend who is up there much more than I am encountered a young man and his pal driving golf balls in various directions. Again strong words were said. My friend tells me he knew that the young man's father is one of the local golf pros. Just a couple of weeks ago my brother-in-law found (and I pocketed) what is presumably one of the balls - a rather nice Wilson Premium thing - near the top of the big gully on the Blairlogie side of the hill.

Oh, and I've also seen a leading - and now sadly deceased - member of the SMC throw rocks down a big gully near the top of a Munro. Several of the non-SMC members of the party then had strong words with him of the cease-and-desist variety.
Post edited at 19:39
In reply to RocMonki:


> As to the alternatives offered thus far, Stroppygob’s is the most poignant, though I think glittery candlelit aromatherapy would be less harmful than dirty smoke in the lodge of cuddly climber consolation.

What these "yobs" (poor downtroddend creatures,) need to realise is they are born, not an individual, but an infinity of individuals, in an infinity of identical worlds. “Consciousness,” thier individual awareness, is shared by this infinity of beings.

 Toerag 21 May 2014
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
> And more recently on the same hilltop, a friend who is up there much more than I am encountered a young man and his pal driving golf balls in various directions.

We get that over here occasionally - the odd chav stands on the top of the cliffs with a bucket of lake balls and whacks them off into the sea, or as we've found on more than one occasion, straight down where we're climbing. a barrage of abuse directed up the cliff normally works. In the late 80's a group of climbers had to move for their lives when some youths trundled a massive boulder off the top of the zawn they were climbing in.
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to DubyaJamesDubya)
>
> [...]
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of Pistol Whipping, well hex whipping the largest one in the face until he is spitting teeth then moving on to the next... repeat until they either run off or are clutching their faces moaning and bleeding.If you start with the largest one before they have time to react then the others tend to reconsider their lifestyle choices.

When you finish your prison sentence...
Rigid Raider 21 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

We had bottles whistling past us at Symond's Yat in the 1960s. Nothing has changed; idiots will still lob stuff off cliffs for fun. I'm sure they weren't aiming at us.
 duncan 21 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Considering the urban nature of the place, this is surprisingly unusual at Avon in my experience. I have witnessed a Suspension Bridge jumper, fortunately for me on the south side of the gorge. Pat Littlejohn was not so lucky: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=29930

Throwing rocks off cliffs has resulted in at least one climber being killed, Pete Absolon a high-profile example: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/434869/Yahoos-throwing-rocks-at-the...

I hope someone has 'a quiet word'.
 Chris Harris 21 May 2014
In reply to Choss:

> Perhaps they were locals From the council Estates neighbouring Trym Valley, and took exception to the way they are Painted in the Climbers club guide, and took offence?

Or maybe:

Perhaps they were locals from the council estates neighbouring Trym Valley, demonstrating precisely why they are painted the way they are in the Climbers Club guide.
 hands solo 21 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

what pieces of s%!t glad your both ok
RocMonki 21 May 2014
In reply to all:

The Bristol Evening Post has now taken on the story so hopefully that might highlight the dangers of rock, gravity and bottles. Whilst the photographer was taking a few photos of the scene, the odd ned popped onsite, whilst the rest sat nearby puffing on slate. A couple of bods were doing a route next to Morpheus whilst a couple of neds peered over, all without incident. Let's hope that this isn't the start of neds vs the Lodge of Cuddly Climber Consolation. Now that I've upset the ned posse, my face will only aggravate tensions, so I'll now be moving on to the other walls....paranoid?...perhaps, got too much to lose, my first wee monki will be born in August.

 muppetfilter 21 May 2014
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:


> When you finish your prison sentence...

I very much doubt that any court in the land will convict the climber in this situation if you gave them a good kicking, after all the OP describes the little scrotes as brandishing a bike lock after hurling Bottles and abuse. I think you will find they will come off worse in the eyes of the law
 Bobling 21 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

I've NEVER seen anything like this at Sea Walls, is there now an in situ oik contingent?
 Camm 21 May 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

It sounds to me like they have treated it seriously, so maybe you should crawl back into your little hole.
 hms 22 May 2014
In reply to Choss:

Hilariously badly written I thought!
 Choss 22 May 2014
In reply to hms:

another angle on all this negative publicity, is that much more and you could start Hearing calls for a ban on climbing in the gorge From the council or mayor.
 awallace 22 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

I regularly climb at a great little quarry called Howngill near Durham. Me & my mate Andy Blackett have often met with the local 'wildlife. We have never had any problems but with it being a a largely bottom rope venue we are always wary of the gear being fiddled with.
 d_b 22 May 2014
In reply to Choss:

The mayor is too busy reducing speed limits and renaming council buildings to bother with climbers.
 Andy Say 22 May 2014
In reply to GridNorth:
> You think that's bad? The barriers at the top of main wall that look like telegraph poles were put up several years ago because a car went over the edge.

Used to happen all the time at Shipley Glen. But mainly at night. And there's not so far for them to fall there!
 Phil1919 22 May 2014
In reply to davidbeynon:

He is one who is prepared to stick his head above the parapet re cars. Bristol, as most other places, are blighted by them.
In reply to Choss:

I liked this bit, someone has been watching Vertical Limit:

"Belinda slipped but her safety rope – which she had attached to a crack in the rock moments earlier – slowed her fall and she was able to get a grip on the cliff face before it snapped."
 d_b 22 May 2014
In reply to Phil1919:

You really believe it makes a difference? Roads that are normally full of almost stationary traffic now have almost stationary traffic and a lower speed limit.

Empty gesture politics, along with everything else the great leader has achieved so far.
 Bobling 22 May 2014
In reply to davidbeynon:

If he can get segregated bike lanes in place then that is progress. The only way I can see our city unclogging itself of all these bl**dy cars.
 nw 22 May 2014
In reply to muppetfilter:

Breathtaking naivety.
> I very much doubt that any court in the land will convict the climber in this situation if you gave them a good kicking
 chrisbaggy 22 May 2014
In reply to RocMonki:

Ive been at Black rocks with both me and my climbing partner at a stance under an overhang when a toaster size rock comes flying down past us and hits below us, followed by the typical laddish "whayy" they didn't know we were there and we shouted a bit not knowing if them knowing we were there would help or hinder........

Lets just say i was nervous as i went out of the safety of the overhang to do the second pitch!!!!
In reply to nw:
> (In reply to muppetfilter)
>
> Breathtaking naivety.
> [...]

Thanks, I couldn't genrate the energy to reply myself.
tri-nitro-tuolumne 23 May 2014
In reply to muppetfilter:

> I think you will find they will come off worse in the eyes of the law

I think you will find they won't. Brandishing a bike lock isn't an offense, giving someone "a good kicking" is.

 planetmarshall 23 May 2014
In reply to tri-nitro-toulumne:
> ...Brandishing a bike lock isn't an offense...

In actual fact it is, Public Order Act 1986 Section 4 "Fear and provocation of violence" - or indeed sections 2 or 3 (Affray), which are more specific about "threatening violence".

That said, I don't think there's any doubt that the OP did the sensible thing.
Post edited at 15:19

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