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I came late to skiing and my progress has stalled because I involuntarily lean back in my boots whenever I get stressed. Anyone got any drills or exercises to help me keep my weight forward and so keep my skis under control?
In reply to Pete_Frost:
I'm totally not an expert but...keeping my hands and arms up and pushing them forward has really helped me to keep my weight forwards.
I'm totally not an expert but...keeping my hands and arms up and pushing them forward has really helped me to keep my weight forwards.
In reply to DaveHK:
If you can't see your hands, your arms are too low. (And don't look down to compensate
Also, use your shins and calves as "sensors" you should feel gentle shin pressure and no calf pressure. So, next time you're skiing just focus on that.
Or get some coaching.
If you can't see your hands, your arms are too low. (And don't look down to compensate
Also, use your shins and calves as "sensors" you should feel gentle shin pressure and no calf pressure. So, next time you're skiing just focus on that.
Or get some coaching.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Another vote for making sure that you can feel pressure on your shins.
Nice drill:
At you initiate a turn, try and pick the tails of your skis up by chucking your weight forward. As a drill, it helps you understand that you can't really have too much weight forward and when back to normal skiing, you'll hopefully be happies knowing that you're not about to do a forward roll.
Another vote for making sure that you can feel pressure on your shins.
Nice drill:
At you initiate a turn, try and pick the tails of your skis up by chucking your weight forward. As a drill, it helps you understand that you can't really have too much weight forward and when back to normal skiing, you'll hopefully be happies knowing that you're not about to do a forward roll.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Bend ze knees! It puts weight on the shins and pushes the fronts of the skis down.
Bend ze knees! It puts weight on the shins and pushes the fronts of the skis down.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
one drill instructors use for teaching this is to tap the top outside edge of your downhill boot with the same sided hand as your skis come across the fall line in each turn
one drill instructors use for teaching this is to tap the top outside edge of your downhill boot with the same sided hand as your skis come across the fall line in each turn
In reply to DaveHK:
Try it in your front room...
Stand in what you think is your best skiing position with your hands at your sides. Now lift your hands out in front as if you were holding a hoola hoop.
What happens?
Yes I have been trying this.
> (In reply to Pete_Frost)
>
> keeping my hands and arms up and pushing them forward has really helped me to keep my weight forwards.
>
> keeping my hands and arms up and pushing them forward has really helped me to keep my weight forwards.
Try it in your front room...
Stand in what you think is your best skiing position with your hands at your sides. Now lift your hands out in front as if you were holding a hoola hoop.
What happens?
Yes I have been trying this.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
weight over/through balls of feet, shout "Yee Haw" (outwardly or inwardly) when committing to a scary turn or slope
weight over/through balls of feet, shout "Yee Haw" (outwardly or inwardly) when committing to a scary turn or slope
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Hand at shoulder width and tits level, ie. ski like a quarterback.
And yes, the hands never, EVER leave the mentioned spot.
Another way is to start doing polemarks, and get short poles. That should get ya forward.
Hand at shoulder width and tits level, ie. ski like a quarterback.
And yes, the hands never, EVER leave the mentioned spot.
Another way is to start doing polemarks, and get short poles. That should get ya forward.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
NO,NO,NO!!!
It just makes your arse stick out. If anything,bend your ankles, but the advice of others is good.
> Bend ze knees! It puts weight on the shins and pushes the fronts of the skis down.
NO,NO,NO!!!
It just makes your arse stick out. If anything,bend your ankles, but the advice of others is good.
In reply to Postmanpat:
I was just going to say, think about bending at the ankles more than the knees.
I was just going to say, think about bending at the ankles more than the knees.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
I'd echo the comments about keeping your hands up where you can see them. The key point is *all the time.* From what I've seen the time many people are likely to drop a hand is towards the end of a turn. The tendency is to leave the inside hand (the one that's becoming the uphill hand as you complete the turn) behind - it'll drop down to your hip and move backwards in relation to your body. That rotates your upper body the wrong way and shifts your weight back, neither of which are good.
I'd echo the comments about keeping your hands up where you can see them. The key point is *all the time.* From what I've seen the time many people are likely to drop a hand is towards the end of a turn. The tendency is to leave the inside hand (the one that's becoming the uphill hand as you complete the turn) behind - it'll drop down to your hip and move backwards in relation to your body. That rotates your upper body the wrong way and shifts your weight back, neither of which are good.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Here's me doing it wrong (I am ashamed):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55682113@N08/14297368149/
Here's someone else doing it right in the same gully:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55682113@N08/14460892206/
Hope the links work.
Here's me doing it wrong (I am ashamed):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55682113@N08/14297368149/
Here's someone else doing it right in the same gully:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55682113@N08/14460892206/
Hope the links work.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Try skiing without poles and standing rather upright and forward, the opposite to bending your knees. A very good exercise that many instructors use is to hold the ski sticks horizontally out in front of you, with both hands, like handlebars. The arms should be kept straight and forward. The idea then is to use the arms like a sight that is pointing straight downhill. This not only keeps the weight forward, but also forces the shoulders to be pointing straight downhill regardless of which way the skis are pointing. I personally found this a really useful exercise.
Try skiing without poles and standing rather upright and forward, the opposite to bending your knees. A very good exercise that many instructors use is to hold the ski sticks horizontally out in front of you, with both hands, like handlebars. The arms should be kept straight and forward. The idea then is to use the arms like a sight that is pointing straight downhill. This not only keeps the weight forward, but also forces the shoulders to be pointing straight downhill regardless of which way the skis are pointing. I personally found this a really useful exercise.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
When skiing in any direction other than straight down hill, most of the weight should be on the downhill ski. A really useful exercise that instructors use to train this is to ski entirely on one ski at a time as one zig-zags downhill. Not only does this enforce the correct weighting, it also helps with fore and aft balance, because it is very difficult to ski on one leg if one's centre of gravity is too far back (or too far forward).
When skiing in any direction other than straight down hill, most of the weight should be on the downhill ski. A really useful exercise that instructors use to train this is to ski entirely on one ski at a time as one zig-zags downhill. Not only does this enforce the correct weighting, it also helps with fore and aft balance, because it is very difficult to ski on one leg if one's centre of gravity is too far back (or too far forward).
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Whe you are on steeper ground and need to do little jump turns, be conscience of keeping your tips down. In the beginning over compensate by trying to get the tip of the ski to hit the snow first.
Whe you are on steeper ground and need to do little jump turns, be conscience of keeping your tips down. In the beginning over compensate by trying to get the tip of the ski to hit the snow first.
In reply to Trangia:
To be honest you dont relly want the wieght on the front of the skis. try thinking moere about being balqanced on the centre of the skis.
Two drills to work on this that I have used with great sucess with a fair few groups.
Ski with your ski boots completely unfastened. Start on v easy slopes. To do this you have to be centered over the skis. I will feel strange at first but you will get to like it. When you master in on piste try it in the off piste. This drill will give a you a really good idea where your wieght is on the skis and can tranform your skiing.
Pick a gentle even slope and ski down it on one ski. try to ski directly down the slope with a little pressue on ther front of the boot. When you can do this on either ski then begin to try and turn left and right whilst on one ski. To ski in control on one ski your wieght has to be in the right place.
To be honest you dont relly want the wieght on the front of the skis. try thinking moere about being balqanced on the centre of the skis.
Two drills to work on this that I have used with great sucess with a fair few groups.
Ski with your ski boots completely unfastened. Start on v easy slopes. To do this you have to be centered over the skis. I will feel strange at first but you will get to like it. When you master in on piste try it in the off piste. This drill will give a you a really good idea where your wieght is on the skis and can tranform your skiing.
Pick a gentle even slope and ski down it on one ski. try to ski directly down the slope with a little pressue on ther front of the boot. When you can do this on either ski then begin to try and turn left and right whilst on one ski. To ski in control on one ski your wieght has to be in the right place.
In reply to kevin stephens:
thats what i do, gee myself up when i start to shit it...'turn you poof', 'get forward you pansie', 'bigtoe little toe' ... all the way down the hill.
thats what i do, gee myself up when i start to shit it...'turn you poof', 'get forward you pansie', 'bigtoe little toe' ... all the way down the hill.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
'Bend ze knees'
In the course of my career in computing I was once given a business card by a saleswoman called Denise Bending.
'Bend ze knees'
In the course of my career in computing I was once given a business card by a saleswoman called Denise Bending.
In reply to Seocan:
Number One Gully in Coire na Caime on Liathach. We had rather a good day out.
> which gully is that?
Number One Gully in Coire na Caime on Liathach. We had rather a good day out.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
push your shins into the font of your boots by bending your legs while keeping your upper body straight. this will transfer your upper body and weight forward. put your skis on in the living room to practice. do this constantly when you are skiing and remember you cannot fall forward on skis. if you lose that feeling of pushing against the front of your boot then your weight is probably too far back and if you accelerate you will be on your arse. Anticipate the acceleration in turns by putting that pressure on before you turn.
push your shins into the font of your boots by bending your legs while keeping your upper body straight. this will transfer your upper body and weight forward. put your skis on in the living room to practice. do this constantly when you are skiing and remember you cannot fall forward on skis. if you lose that feeling of pushing against the front of your boot then your weight is probably too far back and if you accelerate you will be on your arse. Anticipate the acceleration in turns by putting that pressure on before you turn.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
If you feel you're leaning back, or about to fall over, throw your hands/arms forward. You will then be in the correct skiing position - it 'auto' stabilises you.
If you feel you're leaning back, or about to fall over, throw your hands/arms forward. You will then be in the correct skiing position - it 'auto' stabilises you.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Roll your pelvis forward like you're trying to stick your wedding tackle out. This will stop you sticking your arse out when you lean forward.
Roll your pelvis forward like you're trying to stick your wedding tackle out. This will stop you sticking your arse out when you lean forward.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
The other check as to whether you are leaning back or standing up too much is to check you can wiggle all your toes.
And both hands in front - like a zimmer frame rather than a hulahoop.
Modern ski kit is very forgiving of error. As an alternative to undoing our boots you could try skiing downhill in Nordic skis and boots. They are very similar to what the alpine kit was in the 1970s.
The other check as to whether you are leaning back or standing up too much is to check you can wiggle all your toes.
And both hands in front - like a zimmer frame rather than a hulahoop.
Modern ski kit is very forgiving of error. As an alternative to undoing our boots you could try skiing downhill in Nordic skis and boots. They are very similar to what the alpine kit was in the 1970s.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Fantastic advice! Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time and trouble to respond to my plea for help, I really appreciate it.
Fantastic advice! Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time and trouble to respond to my plea for help, I really appreciate it.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Get some coaching, worked for me.
Alison Culshaw does a ski course for climbers, see http://www.offpiste.org.uk/
Get some coaching, worked for me.
Alison Culshaw does a ski course for climbers, see http://www.offpiste.org.uk/
In reply to blurty:
The single most important concept for me was not bend the knees or stick your arms out, it was the shin thing, but more importantly flexing your ankles. It had never occured to me as I'd had people shouting at me to bend my knees. All bending you knees does is shunt you further out the back door if you don't combine it with flexing your ankles. So I concentrated knot only on feeling pressure on my shins,but on actively pulling my feet upwards in my boots. You can pretty much always feel pressure on your shins unless you're really hanging out the back, but it was when I realised that I could get more by pulling my feet upwards that I settled a little bit further forwards. Now when I feel myself dropping backwards I just pull up and I'm back where I need to be.
The single most important concept for me was not bend the knees or stick your arms out, it was the shin thing, but more importantly flexing your ankles. It had never occured to me as I'd had people shouting at me to bend my knees. All bending you knees does is shunt you further out the back door if you don't combine it with flexing your ankles. So I concentrated knot only on feeling pressure on my shins,but on actively pulling my feet upwards in my boots. You can pretty much always feel pressure on your shins unless you're really hanging out the back, but it was when I realised that I could get more by pulling my feet upwards that I settled a little bit further forwards. Now when I feel myself dropping backwards I just pull up and I'm back where I need to be.
I've been on the Alison Culshaw course, it's worth every penny and focussed on different methods of getting turning right. I will go again in a year or so for a top up! She has a repertoire of standard ways to get you doing it right (some mentioned above) but if they don't stick for you she's got a whole load of other tricks up her sleeve.
I liked skiing with your boots totally undone then you more or less have to keep your balance right.
I liked skiing with your boots totally undone then you more or less have to keep your balance right.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Been skiing for 45 years and still get it wrong when the going gets tough. Wholeheaartedly agree with the shin pressure. Suggest standing in boots on the skis and lean forward with straight legs, then bend the knees. Doing this stops you just sticking your backside out. Whilst in this position you will find you have effectively lifted the heals of the skis. Unweighted like this you can twist the skis to either side. I do however admit to being of the old school of parallel turns rather than carving
Been skiing for 45 years and still get it wrong when the going gets tough. Wholeheaartedly agree with the shin pressure. Suggest standing in boots on the skis and lean forward with straight legs, then bend the knees. Doing this stops you just sticking your backside out. Whilst in this position you will find you have effectively lifted the heals of the skis. Unweighted like this you can twist the skis to either side. I do however admit to being of the old school of parallel turns rather than carving
In reply to Batt:
back in the day of rear entry boots releasing the back buckle was a great exercise.
do lots of easy runs focusing on technique. or go on a course allways more to learn!
back in the day of rear entry boots releasing the back buckle was a great exercise.
do lots of easy runs focusing on technique. or go on a course allways more to learn!
In reply to Pete_Frost:
I'd suggest skiing for a few days, getting your legs back, and then trying some of the exercises mentioned above. Another good one which I often use with students is to ski backwards on a gentle slope. Effectively you're making a backwards snowplough, so you'll not end up hurtling away out of control (!)- it puts you in a well balanced, centred position on your skis.
Your feet will be evenly weighted, with slightly more pressure towards the ball of the foot. Angles are flexed, shins will be touching the front of the boots, but not excessively. Most importantly, your hips/centre of mass will be over your feet. It's a good way to feel what a centred and well balanced position is like. Just do it for a couple of runs throughout the day, it'll help.
Another good thing to try is a slow parallel turn on a virtually flat slope. Anything is easy with speed, so slowing it down makes it much harder to perform a basic parallel. You'll become more aware where your centre of mass lies in relation to your skis. Get a friend to video you and have a look afterwards- suss out whether your centre of mass is forward/in the middle/behind.
Once you're more aware of where your skiing is at, I'd say is the perfect time to get a lesson with someone like Alison. And, have fun!
I'd suggest skiing for a few days, getting your legs back, and then trying some of the exercises mentioned above. Another good one which I often use with students is to ski backwards on a gentle slope. Effectively you're making a backwards snowplough, so you'll not end up hurtling away out of control (!)- it puts you in a well balanced, centred position on your skis.
Your feet will be evenly weighted, with slightly more pressure towards the ball of the foot. Angles are flexed, shins will be touching the front of the boots, but not excessively. Most importantly, your hips/centre of mass will be over your feet. It's a good way to feel what a centred and well balanced position is like. Just do it for a couple of runs throughout the day, it'll help.
Another good thing to try is a slow parallel turn on a virtually flat slope. Anything is easy with speed, so slowing it down makes it much harder to perform a basic parallel. You'll become more aware where your centre of mass lies in relation to your skis. Get a friend to video you and have a look afterwards- suss out whether your centre of mass is forward/in the middle/behind.
Once you're more aware of where your skiing is at, I'd say is the perfect time to get a lesson with someone like Alison. And, have fun!
In reply to Pete_Frost:
For me, the big one was when somebody told me to envisage keeping my body perpendicular to the slope. Worked like magic. All of the usual tips about bending knees, holding poles in front, pushing shins into boots etc are all good but they just didn't work for me.
For me, the big one was when somebody told me to envisage keeping my body perpendicular to the slope. Worked like magic. All of the usual tips about bending knees, holding poles in front, pushing shins into boots etc are all good but they just didn't work for me.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Everyone seems to be approaching this from a very technical perspective, which is possibly the wrong way to go about it.
Equipment:
There is a ramp angle on your bindings and your boots. If this tilts you too far forwards, you will arch your back to compensate. Worth getting a proper boot fitting session done.
Your skis might be a bit hard to handle in certain conditions, changing that might get the ski round quicker without leaving your body behind.
Physical:
Are your quads/glutes/lower back strong and conditioned enough to deal with the forces over the course of a couple of minutes. Fatigue will lead to poor posture and leaning back. (visious circle alert)
Are your antagonists developed enough? Most ACL injuries in skiing happen due to a muscular imbalance and weak hamstrings.
Psychologically:
Are you totally gripped? If you can ski perfectly well down a blue or easy off piste, but sit back when it gets tough, then you probably have no technical issues. Just need to work on the head game.
Tactics:
Could you slow down the rate of turning whilst still controlling speed? This would mean you're not rushing things to happen and getting left behind (like the equipment issue).
Technically:
I would say be very careful about having your weight 'forward'. I aim to ski "centered" in all but a few rare and specialised occasions. A slight shin pressure is ok, but don't overhang.
My main technical advice without having seen you, would be: have your hips over your foot/toe bindings rather than the back bindings.
Environment:
Start on easy ground and build up slowly. And try backwards like Will said.
There are potential negative outcomes for you with a lot of the advice and prescriptions in this thread. Without having seen the problem, it's tough to help.
Everyone seems to be approaching this from a very technical perspective, which is possibly the wrong way to go about it.
Equipment:
There is a ramp angle on your bindings and your boots. If this tilts you too far forwards, you will arch your back to compensate. Worth getting a proper boot fitting session done.
Your skis might be a bit hard to handle in certain conditions, changing that might get the ski round quicker without leaving your body behind.
Physical:
Are your quads/glutes/lower back strong and conditioned enough to deal with the forces over the course of a couple of minutes. Fatigue will lead to poor posture and leaning back. (visious circle alert)
Are your antagonists developed enough? Most ACL injuries in skiing happen due to a muscular imbalance and weak hamstrings.
Psychologically:
Are you totally gripped? If you can ski perfectly well down a blue or easy off piste, but sit back when it gets tough, then you probably have no technical issues. Just need to work on the head game.
Tactics:
Could you slow down the rate of turning whilst still controlling speed? This would mean you're not rushing things to happen and getting left behind (like the equipment issue).
Technically:
I would say be very careful about having your weight 'forward'. I aim to ski "centered" in all but a few rare and specialised occasions. A slight shin pressure is ok, but don't overhang.
My main technical advice without having seen you, would be: have your hips over your foot/toe bindings rather than the back bindings.
Environment:
Start on easy ground and build up slowly. And try backwards like Will said.
There are potential negative outcomes for you with a lot of the advice and prescriptions in this thread. Without having seen the problem, it's tough to help.
1
In reply to Terry James Walker:
for me it's feeling pressure through ball of foot like foot on accelerator. If I fine myself leaning back (reduced pressure on ball of foot) shouting "YEE HA" often (but not always) corrects things
Never underestimate benefit of good custom fitted foot beds to help with alignment and stance
for me it's feeling pressure through ball of foot like foot on accelerator. If I fine myself leaning back (reduced pressure on ball of foot) shouting "YEE HA" often (but not always) corrects things
Never underestimate benefit of good custom fitted foot beds to help with alignment and stance
In reply to Pete_Frost:
One sentence from an American tutorial book called, IIRC, 'ski with the big boys', which I've always remembered since it was told to me all of 30 years ago and more:
"knees bent, fanny (ie. arse) in, and don't forget your gorilla stance"
One sentence from an American tutorial book called, IIRC, 'ski with the big boys', which I've always remembered since it was told to me all of 30 years ago and more:
"knees bent, fanny (ie. arse) in, and don't forget your gorilla stance"
In reply to kevin stephens:
So much truth here. It is almost always a head issue for me.
> for me it's feeling pressure through ball of foot like foot on accelerator. If I fine myself leaning back (reduced pressure on ball of foot) shouting "YEE HA" often (but not always) corrects things
So much truth here. It is almost always a head issue for me.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Crouch like you are squatting on the toilet!! Brings the weight forward over your knees and onto your shins (you should feel them resting on the front of the boot), then think about rising up into the turn and the back down after.
Everyone tends to lean back a bit and its better that leaning forward and faceplanting the snow!
Crouch like you are squatting on the toilet!! Brings the weight forward over your knees and onto your shins (you should feel them resting on the front of the boot), then think about rising up into the turn and the back down after.
Everyone tends to lean back a bit and its better that leaning forward and faceplanting the snow!
In reply to Womble:
If I'm understanding you right, that's probably the worst advice possible. Guaranteed to make push your weight too far back and develop the infamous "English bum", which makes you look like you're, er, sitting on the toilet, restricts control and is bloody hard work on the thighs.
It's almost impossible to lean so far forward that you'll face plant unless you are imitating a ski jumper's stance.
> Crouch like you are squatting on the toilet!! Brings the weight forward over your knees and onto your shins (you should feel them resting on the front of the boot), then think about rising up into the turn and the back down after.
> Everyone tends to lean back a bit and its better that leaning forward and faceplanting the snow!
If I'm understanding you right, that's probably the worst advice possible. Guaranteed to make push your weight too far back and develop the infamous "English bum", which makes you look like you're, er, sitting on the toilet, restricts control and is bloody hard work on the thighs.
It's almost impossible to lean so far forward that you'll face plant unless you are imitating a ski jumper's stance.
Post edited at 13:02
1
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Ski like a quarterback. Ie. shoulder always pointing downhill. Hands at tit level. Keep even pressure on the cuff. sorted.
> Anyone got any drills or exercises to help me keep my weight forward and so keep my skis under control?
Ski like a quarterback. Ie. shoulder always pointing downhill. Hands at tit level. Keep even pressure on the cuff. sorted.
In reply to Pete_Frost:
I just concentrate on feeling my shins pushing against the top of the boots.
I just concentrate on feeling my shins pushing against the top of the boots.
In reply to Womble: > Crouch like you are squatting on the toilet!! Brings the weight forward over your knees and onto your shins (you should feel them resting on the front of the boot), then think about rising up into the turn and the back down after.
That really made me smile. It's taken me years to 'get off the toilet'.
Standing up straight is where it's at!
> Everyone tends to lean back a bit and its better that leaning forward and faceplanting the snow!
That really made me smile. It's taken me years to 'get off the toilet'.
Standing up straight is where it's at!
In reply to Womble:
This is an interesting and unusual take on the advice I heard when I was learning, which seems to go something like "Lean forward, it is nearly impossible to go over the front of the skis." To be honest I've always found that to be true. How often have you actually gone over the front? Because your suggestion goes against everything I've ever heard or experienced.
> Everyone tends to lean back a bit and its better that leaning forward and faceplanting the snow!
This is an interesting and unusual take on the advice I heard when I was learning, which seems to go something like "Lean forward, it is nearly impossible to go over the front of the skis." To be honest I've always found that to be true. How often have you actually gone over the front? Because your suggestion goes against everything I've ever heard or experienced.
In reply to Bob_the_Builder:
Quite a few times, you should try telemark skiing and then comment .
> "Lean forward, it is nearly impossible to go over the front of the skis." To be honest I've always found that to be true. How often have you actually gone over the front?
Quite a few times, you should try telemark skiing and then comment .
In reply to Postmanpat:
It was more a mixture between a sensible
1) weight on your shins answer
And
2) better to lean a bit back than lots forward (personal preference)
It's definitely possible to lean too far forward and face plate the snow. Try any skiing in deep powder where you can lose the front of the skis in a snowdrift and end up double ejecting onto your face. Great fun
Appreciate that what is communicated in written form loses 60% of the information (I.e I probably put across some of the wrong message) but that's why professional teaching exists. Best to jump on some snow and go through it with someone to demonstrate.
Either that or you sit on the toilet differently to me :p
It was more a mixture between a sensible
1) weight on your shins answer
And
2) better to lean a bit back than lots forward (personal preference)
It's definitely possible to lean too far forward and face plate the snow. Try any skiing in deep powder where you can lose the front of the skis in a snowdrift and end up double ejecting onto your face. Great fun
Appreciate that what is communicated in written form loses 60% of the information (I.e I probably put across some of the wrong message) but that's why professional teaching exists. Best to jump on some snow and go through it with someone to demonstrate.
Either that or you sit on the toilet differently to me :p
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