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Too muscular to climb?

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ADHDean 06 Jul 2014
Hi people,

My first post/question on here. I am looking to take up climbing but am a little concerned I may be a tad too muscular to become a good climber.

I've a fairly well built frame after years on and off body building. I am no way near the 16 stone I have been in the past but still a bit concerned. Is it realistic to think I could become a good climber and not have to 'diet down'?

Thanks
 Andy S 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean: Well, 'dieting down' I assume refers to losing body fat, not muscle, right? After all, you don't diet to lose muscle; you diet to lose fat and to muscle you reduce the intensity of your resistance training enough that you lose muscle mass.

The ideal build for climbing is low body-fat and medium muscle mass in the right places (mostly, but not exclusively, back muscles) with high recruitment.

Basically, power to weight ratio.

And, having said all that, you only need to look at John Dunne to see that you don't have to have the textbook climber's build to climb E10.

Just get on with it and go with what you've got, mate. That's all anyone else does. Refine your physique if you want.

ADHDean 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Andy S:

Cheers, Sorry when I say diet down I mean put myself in to a catabolic state with reduced protein intake to force muscle to breakdown. My bodyfat% is currently around 8%.

I guess your right I should just see how I get on first. I just tend to over analyse stuff and people keep telling me I wont be able to climb unless I get skinny.
 FactorXXX 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Andy S:


And, having said all that, you only need to look at John Dunne to see that you don't have to have the textbook climber's build to climb E10.

That's probably a bit disingenuous. Dunne's weight has always famously fluctuated. However, at his best, he was probably at the lower end of that fluctuation...
needvert 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Take up climbing and you'll soon find out.

There are climbers out there missing fingers and toes and they make do. I imagine you will too.
 deacondeacon 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

You're gonna be burnt off by all sorts of peopl from little 9 year old girls to big 18 stone pensioners so I wouldn't worry too much.
Very few climbers will ever get to a position where their body is the reason for letting them down.
Try not to overthink it, just get out there, do lots of climbing, and worry about changing your body shape when you really have found your limit (probably never).
 deacondeacon 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

people keep telling me I wont be able to climb unless I get skinny.

Tell them to f--k off?

He'll probably hate me saying this but I've a mate who was in a similar boat (the Orc) who has a body builders physique and was told he'd never be a good climber ( on a course at plas-y-brenin of all places) and he's breaking into E5 now which is further than 90% of climbers will ever see.
I reckon being told he'll be crap is one of his biggest motivators.
Just get out there and climb
 John Kelly 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

very much in same boat, 6 pack keeps catching

(where's nearest Greggs?)
 Ann S 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

As long as you learn right from the outset that climbing is all about good footwork which allows you to push with your legs rather than pulling with your arms, you will be just fine.
 Mick Ward 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Ann S:

> ...climbing is all about good footwork...

Totally agree.

[To the OP] The value of better and better and better footwork cannot be overstated. Right now, forget body type/shape/weight. Good footwork, which takes a lot of effort to acquire, is a lifetime's investment.

Good luck.

Mick
 marsbar 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Only one way to find out. Try it and see....
 Shani 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Stay off the body building protocol and your muscle will atrophy. If you want to keep up the iron game then keep any lifts to the lower end of the rep range and stick to the basic lifts - chinning, deadlifts, an OH press and squats (squat full ROM).

Steve Petro (US) was an ex bodybuilder who transitioned to climbing and crushed E5 onsight.
 Jon Stewart 06 Jul 2014
 Scrump 06 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Youll be fine, if you put the dedication you need to get that big into climbing youll be a better climber than 99% of people.
ADHDean 06 Jul 2014
Wow! Thanks guys for all the encouraging words! I was half expecting much of the same as I had received from those who know me who are not climbers. Negatives.

I have climbed as a teen and while I was in the army but have booked an introduction session at the local wall and am looking forward to, as advised 'Getting on with it!'

In reply to needvert:

Oh, I forgot to mention I am missing the ring finger on my right hand. I do like a challenge. lol
 Shani 07 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Only a ring finger missing? You've got way more hands that Kevin Shields and he solos E6 and onsights E7. So there is your 'limit'!

 lost1977 07 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

having come from doing strongman and having climbed the only problem you may have is with shoulder flexibility but other than that people who claim too much muscle is a bad thing are often trying to make excuses
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to lost1977:

If you're carrying a lot of muscle weight that you're not using for climbing, it is a bad thing isn't it?
 duchessofmalfi 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Buy a chalk bucket and go bouldering...
 jkarran 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

> If you're carrying a lot of muscle weight that you're not using for climbing, it is a bad thing isn't it?

It's not ideal but then who does have the ideal physique, most of us don't but we still manage to have fun and find a challenge in climbing.

OP: Give it a go, you might take to it like a duck to water, you might (like most of us) make slow faltering progress and at some point you might choose to tune your training to better suit climbing but in the first instance your body shape is going to make next to no difference to how much fun you're having and that's where the climbing bug starts, with fun.

Oh and one missing finger is one less finger injury waiting to happen

jk
Post edited at 09:57
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to jkarran:

I was just arguing that being self analytical, working out what might be holding you back, isn't necessarily a bad thing to do, and isn't necessarily just an excuse, especially if there's something you can do about it. Obviously people do find excuses that have a detrimental effect, as it stops them addressing the real issue they're failing, or not improving, or whatever.

I can't change the fact that I'm short, so that is just a good excuse.
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to duchessofmalfi:

The day I buy a chalk bucket, is the day that all hope is lost.
 lost1977 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

If you know how to use your muscles properly it's not the issue that many will lead you to believe. The amount of people who don't realise how much leg strength benefits you on steep overhanging climbs and think leg mass is big clearly don't understand how the body works
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to lost1977:

It's the ones you don't use much, or that don't offer much benefit that are the main problem. Most climbing in this country isn't on steep rock anyway, and I think you're slightly overselling the leg strength thing. Just look at the build on top sport climbers, who are mostly on steep rock, or plastic.
 victorclimber 07 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

You remember the TV prog the Gladiators ,all bodybuilders none of the men looked like a climber when on the wall racing the punters up it ,the women were a lot better ..
 lost1977 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

A weak lower body will also leave you more prone to shoulder injuries especially when combined with a strong back
 Jon Stewart 07 Jul 2014
In reply to lost1977:

I always thought that since we're used to climbing stairs and stuff, but not used to taking our weight on our arms, that most peoples legs were naturally already plenty strong enough for climbing and that when you start climbing the development happens in the upper body.
 lost1977 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Most of our leg movement in everyday life is in quite a limited range both in range of movement and how the muscles are used (this is the whole problem especially when combined with jobs which aren't active)
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to lost1977:

But getting back to the OP, I can't see how having body builder legs, or body builder anything, would be ideal for climbing. Surely strong but lean body is generally best. Isn't body building about putting on muscle mass regardless, and isn't about having a good strength to weight ratio?
 lost1977 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

So long as you can use what you have it's not a disadvantage, trying so lose mass is more likely to bring about imbalances having spent probably years building up. I actually found approaches and descents easier on the body when I was holding more mass and climbing was only very slightly affected due to a slightly reduced ROM in shoulders and legs which could easily be resolved
 lost1977 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Just in case you didn't bother reading the original posters first posts he is already lean and having trained with weights on and off for years its quite safe to assume is stronger than average. Therefore fits the strong lean criteria
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to lost1977:

I meant slim, rather than lean.
 Jon Stewart 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
> But getting back to the OP, I can't see how having body builder legs, or body builder anything, would be ideal for climbing.

Yeah, but until you've been climbing long enough to have perfect technique and psychological approach, (aside from being fat) your body shape isn't what's holding you back.

I would suggest that until the OP is trying to add an extra grade to an already impressive level (say, progressing through the 7s in sport) a bit of extra muscle isn't going to hinder at all. By that stage if they've focused on climbing rather than lifting and eating, they'll have lost a bit already and probably be in ideal shape.
Post edited at 17:04
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Everything that's less than ideal holds you back, to one extent or another.
 Oogachooga 07 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

It won't get in the way at all at the minute. If you get the bug you might even change how you train. I used to lift heavy and still do, just tailoring it more to bw+weight exercises. Lost 15kg in mass but have a better power to weight ratio.

Dont hesitate and dont be negative. You will have a big advantage to start, just work your ass off on technique and know when to 'thug' it and when not to. Good luck man!
 Jon Stewart 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

> Everything that's less than ideal holds you back, to one extent or another.

No it doesn't. The factor that's limiting your performance is the one that's holding you back.
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Jon Stewart:

You're only allowed to have one?
 Jon Stewart 07 Jul 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Both ways of looking at it are over-simplified, but in terms of practical advice, identifying the limiting factor and improving that is much more helpful than saying "aim to get everything closer to ideal".

In the OP's case as a total novice, the limiting factor is guaranteed to be technique. Once that's improved a lot it's then likely to be finger strength. Somewhere down the line, it might turn out that better strength-to-weight ratio would lead to improvement, or it might not. As such, thinking about strength-to-weight ratio now is a waste of time.
Post edited at 17:40
 climbwhenready 07 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

A general rule for people starting to climb is the weaker you are, the more quickly you learn good technique because you can't "thug" your way through hard bits. So if you're strong, pay special attention to your technique from day 1 - climb with someone more experienced and ask for feedback. Once you've mastered technique, you might progress quite quickly because general strength won't be holding you back!
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Jon Stewart:

By not body building, you can save time, then spend it working on technique.
 1poundSOCKS 07 Jul 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

But hard bits are relative to strength aren't they?
 henwardian 07 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Depends what you mean by "good".
But you will certainly have no problem to start with. If you want to get really good, it's going to take years (building up tendon strength for instance takes years, rush it and you just end up with a hoast of finger injuries) so you will have plenty of time to lose a little muscle mass if it looks like that is what is holding you back a few years down the line.

If you are just starting out, the most obvious trap you could fall into is relying on your strength alone and thereby developing bad technique. If you go to the climbing wall often and find that you quickly progress on steep overhangs, it's going to get depressing when you go to a slab and get spanked. So make sure you spend plenty of time on slabs and vertical walls so your technique progression catches up with the head start you have on physical progression.
ADHDean 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Everyone:

Thanks again for all the positive advise. I am so pumped to get climbing I have made a campus board and a number of chin up contraptions to work on my finger strength and grip. But with this aside I wil be paying as much attention to technique as I can. I spend all day climbing 30 foot ladders at work so relish the thought of adding some dynamics to climbing. Lol. There is a bouldering gym near me I poole there I plan to go and get some different training in.
 TomBaker 08 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

you can get membership of the wall in the Dolphin centre, and then go as often as you like. If I wasn't so short of cash i'd be all over it.

Good luck btw, where is your introductory session?
In reply to ADHDean:

Perhaps you are a budding Alex Huber, who famously said he had "power to waste"!
ADHDean 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Tom Baker:

I'm doing the introduction at QE in Wimborne. I'm not kidding I am literally counting the days like a kid a Christmas. -Other religious holidays are available.
 DaCat 10 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

I agree with a lot of whats been written here. Foot work and leg strength especially.

The problem with beginners climbing is, it tend to be pumpy, arm pulling grabs. When you watch people moving from 4s-5s into sixes all they have learnt is how to pull themselves up the wall and so they suddenly become stuck. Keep this in mind when starting out and try to concentrate on your footwork getting you up their rather than the muscle strength in your arms.
silo 11 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Its all about transferring you body strength through you hands or fingers! The stronger your hands the better you climb.
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
> (In reply to lost1977)
>
> I meant slim, rather than lean.

I do feel you are being deliberately obtuse or just playing devil's advocate but either way you seem to be ignoring the fact that the OP hasn't done any climbing yet so having the perfect build/strength/whatever is completely irrelevant at this stage.

To the OP as others have said: Just give it a go.
 1poundSOCKS 11 Jul 2014
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

A few people who I've disagreed with have called me obtuse, or other things. I just take other peoples opinion as that...their opinion. Tackle the ball, not the man.

Factors such as build, strength, etc..., are relevant at all stages, they just become more important as you progress...in my opinion.
 TomBaker 11 Jul 2014
In reply to ADHDean:

Done it yet? I'm not a huge fan of QE, and for that matter I've never found their staff have the faintest idea what they are on about (this may be grossly unfair to the current staff).
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
> (In reply to DubyaJamesDubya)
>
>
> Factors such as build, strength, etc..., are relevant at all stages, they just become more important as you progress...in my opinion.

True but I just feel that with regard to the OP it doesn't matter yet.
He's almost certainly better of than a lot of people unless he's been persuaded that '7a is entry level these days' or something.
In reply to ADHDean:

I'm over 100 kg or 16 stone. Happily get up E1, less happily get up E2, struggle up E3 and would like to get up an E4. In my experience the biggest issue for climbing at these sort of grades is the head game. If you can convince yourself that you can do the climb then all you have to worry about is technique and strength. You can get climbing strength in a matter of months if you go about it the right way, technique takes a bit of practice. Getting your head right can take ages.

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