UKC

heading to el chorro in a month so I need a plan to get me fit for some interesting routes,

I've made this plan, any critiques?
train 3 days a week indoors with days off in between

day one 4*4s 16 routes 4+
day two top rope 6as
day three lead 5+

If I can get outside, I supplement day three for some outdoor sport leads, Also I've got this climbing wall at work which is a rubbish kids wall I could use for 30 mins at lunch break, any point in that or is that just over training?

In reply to marzi:


Look up "ARC training". Definitely a good idea. Start with 2 x 10 minute sets with a rest in between if necessary, work up to spending the entire 30 minutes on the wall.

Requires music and / or a high boredom threshold.

In reply to marzi:

Hmmm... too much too late, if I may say. Best you can do is get out climbing as much as possible (3 x week) and work on technique. Start your training routine at least 3 months in advance next time.

In reply to marzi:

Work on technique - this will help(even moreso when you hit real rock) http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2006/08/climbing-beginners-top-5-...

In reply to marzi:
Give this go... but it would be much better if you had 7 weeks

3 weeks...

day one

4*1(4+, 5min rest between) (warm up, followed by 15min rest) then
4*4(4+, 15min rests)
i.e. 20 routes at 4+

day two

4*1(4+, 5min rest between) then
2*1(5, 5min rest between)(warm up, followed by 15min rest) then
3*1(6b,top rope, dogged as nessecary, 20min rests, same 6b each time until sent)
i.e. 9 routes at 4+ to 6b

day three

4*1(4+) then
2*1(5)(warm up, followed by 15min rest) then
3*1(6a,lead, dogged as nessecary, 20min rests, same 6a each time until sent)
i.e. 9 routes at 4+ to 6a

4th week easy back a bit to be fresh on the trip.

In reply to marzi:

If you reckon 4x4s on a 4+ will help, go for it. Personally I doubt it will have any great benefit, unless you're seriously unfit or overweight. I'd just do a fair bit of climbing, emphasising technique (and leading, if that's what you'll be doing when on the trip) and once you get onto Spanish rock, it'll feel a whole different ball game, guaranteed, so don't put too much pressure on yourself in advance. Just go and enjoy it and climb lots.

In reply to marzi:
Hello Marzi,

As people have said 4 weeks is a little short to see much physiological adaptation. However that doesn't mean you can't crack 6a again on your trip.

Step 1: Identify a non physical weakness. What is stopping you from
climbing 6a right now?

Step 2: Train that weakness

Fear of falling: Stop top roping and lead everything at your indoor wall, including your warm up climb. Lead outside, lead, lead and do some more leading. If that becomes a doddle start leading routes indoors you know you will come off try and lead a 6a have a go on a 6b!

Footwork: Practice footwork drills to death on your crappy kids wall and then stress test those skills on climbs at your local wall
Drill 1: Silent feet place feet without making a banging sound,
start off slow and methodical and then build up to your normal
climbing speed.

Drill 2: Back-stepping. Are you using the outside edge of your foot
when you climb? On your kids wall or the base of your indoor wall
try traversing left to right facing with your body facing left.
Now traverse right to left with your body facing right. Try and
identify where movements feel easier or harder when facing this way
and then incorporate them into your route climbing.

Weight loss: I don't know you or your weight so I am cautious about suggesting this but if you have weight to lose then dropping weight in a healthy way will improve your climbing. If you are already a stick insect then please ignore this you will make your climbing/health worse.

Step 3: Tactics can have a massive impact. Get a good night sleep, don't eat a massive lunch and make sure you are happy with your belayer, the route and all the equipment before you leave the ground.

Step 4: Perfect play. Try really hard on the route but concentrate on enjoying each move not on the end result.

If you would like any more info give me a pm.

In reply to marzi:

My wife went from 4+ to 6a+ during a 5 day trip a few years ago, so you've every chance. Good luck, I'm sure you can make it.

In reply to marzi:

Don't over do it, a sudden increase in training is as likely to result in an injury as it is in grade gains.

Don't top-rope anything, you won't be on holiday and you'll need to be comfortable on lead.

Get to the crag in the uk, we have some reasonable limestone sport dotted about the place and familiarity is worth as much as strength.

The ARC suggestion is good, use the time on the wall to really work on controlling your balance and movement in low stress positions, it alleviates the boredom and improves your technique while building some endurance.

Get a clip stick and learn to use it.

Learn to redpoint. Ahead of all the fitness stuff and technique drills this will get you comfortable pushing a bit on lead which is what you'll need to be doing. Having the confidence to risk a fall when it's safe and the knowledge you can keep climbing while absurdly pumped is a big help when you're weighing up slumping on the rope or pushing on to the next bolt or rest.

Rest whenever you can, specifically practice resting whether it's unlikely finding positions that unload your muscles (aretes, kneebars etc) or shaking out tired arms one at a time. Spotting and working rests is a skill that can be honed like any other.

Personally I'd steer clear of all the 4x4s and regimented strength/PE training. Get confident leading and get some mileage ideally on real rock, always on lead.

jk

In reply to marzi:

Chorro in summer? Eek. Climb early in the morning in the shade.

As others have said, 5a to 6a in four weeks is definitely feasible - it's not as if we're talking about 7a to 8a - but maybe not with your plan.

Ditch the 4x4's , ARC on the kid's walls at lunchtime instead.

No toproping. Your routes sessions indoors should be a thorough warm up on easy routes then projecting/redpointing 6as.

In general and especially at those grades, real routes tend to be less pumpy than wall routes but have more technical / less obvious cruxes. Any time you can spend outside will be invaluable, especially on lime since your profile looks like you're more accustomed to grit.

Given greater cruxiness /technicality outdoors, you might also want to swap one of the route sessions for bouldering and focus on trying to flash V1/2 in a variety of styles (but don't bother with roofs much, not relevant to routes at those grades)

Thrash yourself hard for three weeks then take it very easy the last week before the trip, so that you're rested when you go.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

In reply to Fraser:

>"If you reckon 4x4s on a 4+ will help"

Why do you think they wouldn't help? If that is the grade that puts appropriate stress on the OP's system then it'll work just as well as it would for you and I climbing a bit harder. I'm sure Ondra wouldn't find our efforts at "training" very useful.

It's all very well saying arc about for half an hour but that takes discipline and self knowledge to keep the level of effort both useful and sustainable. I think we can assume the OP hasn't done much training before, in which case I think it's appropriate to offer a training schedule that doesn't require too much thinking.

In reply to JLS:



Because a 4+ is very likely to be a slab with big holds and I don't see how climbing one such route four times in a row x4, would help the OP other than if they are very unfit or overweight. At best, it'd probably just get them slightly out of breath in which case they'd be better going for a quick jog round the place to increase their heart rate and warm up muscles.

In reply to Fraser:

Oh I don't know. I still remember when F5+ on the lefthand wall at Ibrox was impossibly hard. I still remember as if it was yesterday being pumped stupid on enormous jugs after only 6m of climbing. I remember when hard severe was a big tick for me. You've got to start somewhere. Doing 20 F4+ in a session seems as good a place as any.

In reply to JLS:

Perhaps, but that's why I said to the OP "If you reckon 4x4s on a 4+ will help, go for it." But a 4+ is a 4+ and I assume it's not going to be overhanging and very unlikely to even be vertical. I don't want to sound elitist, but I don't ever remember being on a 4+ tbh, but maybe I have been and they're harder than I imagine.

My opinion would still be that doing 20 of them in a session isn't going to do as much good as doing fewer, harder routes, whilst concentrating on leading and technique.

In reply to Fraser:

Moral is important too. Rattling out easy routes can be an uplifting experience which allows you to feel like you're climbing well. This in turn can carry over positive vibes into the harder sessions.

In reply to marzi:
If you're in anything other than great shape physically, I'd be tempted to sub the 4x4s session for going for a decent run, and adding another decent cardio session into the week, swimming, more running, spin or something. Will benefit you in many ways, over all fitness, stamina, recovery, weight! If you can move on a wall well on a 5+ I bet you could pop up to a 6a simply by losing any excess weight and building overall condition. Getting a good diet in check is important too. Not just for weight loss but so you have quality natural energy from clean foods, and the ability to process them so you feel strong and energetic when you get to the wall!

Might sound a bit fitness-y but if you're looking for results in under a month you have to get serious and go for it from all angles!

Best of luck with it!

Wow thanks for all the replies! Some great info here.

Fitness? I am slightly overweight but I do about 45 mins cardio 4-5 times a week, so need to diet to lose weight, I cant really fit any more cardio in. But losing weight would make things easier no doubt.

ARC training vs 4*4s, leeds wall has 4/5 overhanging juggy routes which can be pumpy and my wall at work has auto belays. I've Google'd ARC training and from what I gather, to do ARC training effectively I need to spend 10+ minutes on mix of routes? so a boulder traverse would be ideal? rather than doing a top rope auto belay several times in fast succession?

As regards leading all the time, I find it frustrating, burning all energy doing 2 or 3 routes badly and more finger strength gains top roping. Spending every session between now and September trying to lead at my limit would be demoralizing and might even bust a finger. Unless you all think this is really the solution?

My weakness's are overhangs and crimps

Another solution would be to mix up the three evening sessions,
eg at leeds wall at night, first hour warm up and leading 5+, second hour top roping 6+ and do the auto belays 30 mins every day at lunch for endurance

In reply to marzi:

A quick-fix that will up your grade on overhangs is to look carefully at technique. Stuff that involves twisting your body into the wall and flagging, as well as drop-knees. That's doable in 4 weeks. If you get it right then stuff that previously seemed impossible may suddenly become straightforward, although it's hard to appreciate how significant this is until you do it.

I'd also suggest that to suddenly start on 3 training sessions a week is very likely to lead to injury. I know from experience as I'm very keen to improve, but regularly get set-backs with finger, elbow and wrist problems.

In reply to marzi:

Just a few thoughts on the advice you've been given already....

6a on spanish limestone will be nothing like a 4+ at the wall so I agree with the person who questioned the validity of doing loads of 4+s. There will be much smaller and more varied holds and much worse footholds compared to 4+ jug fests at the wall. They'll do nothing for finger strength but possibly something for fitness on big holds (which might not be relevant for spanish 6as).

If you have a specific goal, make the training relevant. If you want to climb 6a, try 6a at the wall. If you're uncomfortable leading, lead more. Working weaknesses is far more productive than repeatedly climbing within your comfort zone. Just don't expect it to be that enjoyable! The joy comes when all that hard work pushing yourself pays off and you cruise up your 6a in Spain.

It's much easier to talk about it than to do it, it took me a good year or so to get into the right mind set to push myself (and properly push, not let yourself off the hook by shouting take when leading or top roping) but if you're keen to improve then it pays off in the end.

If however, you want a nice holiday, climbing long, decent routes in the sunshine, then don't get hung up on a particular grade. Climb some 4s, try some 5s and if you're feeling confident get on a 6a and see what happens.

In reply to marzi:


I certainly wouldn't suggest every session, but you have to spend some time between now and then on the lead on routes at least as hard as you're aiming for. I would go for one session ARC, one session bouldering, one session projecting harder stuff on lead.

It sounds to me like you're rather too fond of toproping. Autobelay laps might be a viable alternative to ARC traversing on a bouldering wall, but that's really the only circumstance when there's any excuse.

Toproping miles and miles of easy stuff will certainly pump a lot of lactic acid through your forearms, it might even help technique somewhat in term of moving more efficiently on straightforward stuff, but it won't do anything at all for either your leading head or your move-reading skills, both of which are likely to be more important limitations.

ARC should ideally be quite a bit more than ten minutes per set, but you have to start with whatever you can do.

In reply to marzi:

Wean yourself off the top-roping that will provide the greatest improvement in the time you have.

Like you said you don't want to feel demoralized but at the same time you should be failing and failing often when you are training. Therefore try and lead the whole session and then have a couple of top rope burns as a treat in the middle of your session when you are feeling strong.

As the month rolls on try and cut back on these top rope treats and put in more leading time, in time when you start to see big improvements with your leading you wont want to waste your time top roping. Good luck

In reply to Tru:

>"Wean yourself off the top-roping"

Top roping is a useful training and redpointing aid.
So long as you're leading (and falling) regularly, to not use top-roping where appropriate is just perverse.

In reply to marzi:

There are some nice routes at the 4 / 5 grades in El Chorro and its environs. You have to search a bit but you will still have fun.

I particularly enjoyed Rogelio (http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=112704). It's been bolted to the top of the crag now. Mostly pitches of 4 and 5, and you could aid the 6a+ crux! Of course you would need to be happy on multipitch