UKC

Did the milestone buttress scramble today. Was a bit depressed to see chalk on quite a few of the holds. And not just a little bit, some holds were proper slathered in it. And they were enormous jugs on ledges. And it's been dry. And IT'S A SCRAMBLE...

Where on earth do people get these ideas? Do they know what chalk is for? They can't possibly have gained any advantage from using it.

Just wanted to check other people think this is very odd, or am I getting old? Has everybody started using chalk whenever their hands touch rock?

(I know several routes cross this scramble, but they are all diffs or v diffs in any case, and the chalk was definitely following the scramble)

In reply to neal:

Did you send the on-sight?

.... I'm not sure I'm using the words correctly as I'm a bit vague as to their meaning....

Perhaps it should be...

Did you flash the on-sight?

Shocked in Tampa

In reply to neal:

relax

In reply to Donnie:

yeah, I know, that's what I thought after posting. Still, it's cathartic to rant...

In reply to neal:

Was that you I saw this morning - I was roped up with a partner. I was a bit surprised by the chalk. Think it could have been someone escaping Direct or Super Direct Route.

In reply to rusty8850:


You were ROPED up. It's a SCRAMBLE FFS!

In reply to neal:

Its the chalked up holds on the descent routes that amuse me the most.

In reply to neal:

Chalk on anything less than the high extremes is a bit weird to be honest.

In reply to neal:

Isn't that the stuff school teachers use to write with? What on earth is it doing on a scramble, what next?!

In reply to neal:

There was quite a bit of COLOURED chalk scribbled about on Curved Ridge last week.

??

Yeah, I don't know either.

And someone had chalked up the word 'Crivens' above the corner step. I thought that was pretty funny.

In reply to neal:

yep pretty weird

In reply to Orgsm:

So you don't bother for E5s then? Good effort.

In reply to neal & Orgsm:

I'm thinking of going climbing tomorrow morning and was wondering what grade I can use chalk for? Is there a graph or something, do we take into account the adjectival grade or just the technical grade?
Thanks for your help
Deacon

In reply to neal:
We need more gorillas.
vimeo.com/48602839

In reply to neal:
Didn't you realise that September 22nd is Muppet Monday?

If you go back on October 1st, there will be more, as that's Wanker Wednesday!

In reply to deacondeacon:


The grade at which I need it. This will depend on many factors at any given time. All climbers should feel obliged to contact me through UKC before going climbing for an update in order to avoid upsetting me. Today it is VS by the way.

In reply to Robert Durran:


That's good.

I was going to say that there's pretty much everyone agrees that chalk is utterly essential for routes at their limit because those routes involve relying on desperately small, polished, slopey holds, whereas it's totally unnecessary on routes below their limit because they're universally plastered with massive jugs.

I do find it funny at indoor walls where the most chalk you see on a route is always on the big jugs up to the first clip, though...

In reply to neal:

Its a grade III scramble and an official mod rock climb so your capitals look very OTT. As an illustration of the genuine scariness of easy climbing for some folk (and a brilliant example on the muppet front), my mate and once rescued a woman on it who had started to panic; her partner was reading a book on how to belay at the top, kid you not. Anyway its good you only need chalk on a diff

In reply to deacondeacon:

The answer is simple, don't use chalk at all - you'll soon get used to it.

In reply to Ramblin dave:


Not everyone, many never use chalk... disgusting stuff.

In reply to Ramblin dave:


It's because people who don't climb very often, tend to chalk up EVERY time they start climbing (okay, I'm exaggerating).
I've done easy 6a-ish yesterday indoors for warm up and one black hold was completely covered by chalk! It was meant to be crux, but the crux for me (that explains why it was so chalky) was to brush the hold while still holding on it. That's just disgusting that people use the chalk excessively and don't brush the holds afterwards.

In reply to Offwidth:

What's wrong with that? That's exactly how I started in 1964. We bought a rope, a couple of Ex WD krabs, and book on mountaineering. All four of us would stand at the top of Stanage book in hand checking the knots and anchors. After a couple of hours practice we felt confident enough to lead. None of that top roping nonsense or commercial courses for us not that we knew of any back then.

On the matter of chalk, it's somewhat elitist to specify a grade at which it's use is appropriate and it was inevitable that it would become more widespread. To be honest, for me, it's more of a psychological thing as my hands don't really sweat out doors. Indoors is a different matter.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:


Even on limestone?

In reply to GridNorth:

Including a climbing partner likely to freak, with limited confidence nicely blasted by your visble uncertainty in your own skills? :O

In reply to neal:

Chalk kills lichen. This is good because lichen sucks for climbing on. I encourage everyone to put as much chalk as they can on mountain crags as many are in a poor state.

In reply to neal:

It sometimes rains in North Wales, which is a good remedy for all that offensive white stuff.
I don't climb beyond low E grades, but find chalk pretty helpful as my hands resemble taps even in relatively cool weather, it's a curse!
PS I was not the guilty party in this instance.

In reply to neal:

G3 scramble without using Pof never!!!

In reply to humptydumpty:


If you haven't got any you can't use it... just do easier climbs if you find it makes a difference. What does it matter?

In reply to Orgsm:



I must be weird then - I use it on Severes. Never mind - I can live with that.

Is there a physiological issue that only high extreme climbers sweat?

In reply to Babika:


No - they just generally have good balance and footwork and movement skills so that when they come across a small, greasy, polished, sloping hold on an easier climb they don't really need to pull on it in the same way that a wobbling severe leader might, and hence they sometimes conclude that on easier climbs, the need to pull on small, greasy, polished, sloping holds is never an issue.

To be honest, I can respect Bruce's clean-hand-gang approach as being consistent even if I don't agree with it (I preach moderation rather than abstinence), whereas the view that some people take that chalk suddenly becomes a necessary evil at some arbitrary grade (which is normally approximately their current leading grade) but is completely redundant below that does my head in rather.

In reply to Babika:


You'd be weird in this day and age if you didn't use it on severes. Most people start using it the minute they can top rope a Diff.


Not at all, climbers have always sweated, and before the advent of chalk, they just didn't climb at all. However, there seems to be a direct correlation between the introduction of chalk, and the increase in climbers suffering from sweaty hands - researchers at Cambridge University are looking into this at the moment, and their study is due to be published in November entitled 'Chalk and Sweaty Hands Syndrome - Medical Condition or Placebo Bollocks'.

In reply to Jonny2vests:

I don't use chalk outdoors.. If I can't do it without chalk, then I leave it for someone who can.

In reply to Orgsm:


Fair enough, if you're not interested in climbing to your limit.

In reply to Jonny2vests:

It's a different limit, isn't it.

In reply to neal:

I don't use chalk to make holding small greasy holds easier, it just happens to be the bag where I keep my confidence.

In reply to Bobling:


I think that pretty much sums up my feeling on the case. Even if its a climb that you've done a thousand times before there's still going to be a moment where your nerve wavers and good 'ole trusty chalk is there to remind that you can make the move.

In reply to humptydumpty:


So is balancing an apple pie on your head. Why do it?

A true evangelist of nature would forgo shoes before chalk. Arguably they change the rock far more significantly.

Perhaps the real reason for not using chalk is to be able to announce to peers 'I don't use chalk', not because of some high brow protectionist approach.

In reply to humptydumpty:

The way I see it, what chalk does is help you to climb hard routes more often. Sure you can wait for that perfect short stretch of time between the sun leaving the rock and the temps getting too cold (and many will do this anyway on projects) and with a stiff breeze you may not need chalk at all, but by using chalk you can test yourself with more confidence the rest of the time.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

A natural product: Ground up rock/mineral very similar to lime stone.