UKC

Ed Milliband

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 Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
He really is a liability, isn't he? I can't see him persuading the public to vote for him.

Should the labour party get shot of him now, before it's too late, and give us some sort of alternative to the tories?
 jkarran 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

I think he's doing rather well at the moment and creeping up in my estimations.

That said and as a complete aside: It sounded yesterday morning hearing him on the radio like he's been receiving vocal coaching from William Hague. He's developed a very strange way of drawing out words. I presume it's a conscious tactic to buy thinking time without umming and ahhing or maybe it's a speech therapy tactic for some issue they share?

jk
 cander 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

He's in a difficult position - he's clearly sincere, and obviously not a shit - sadly neither of those qualities will get him elected. He's also the kid you'd have taken the micky out of at school - and I'm thinking thats his biggest issue Gromit!
OP Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to jkarran:

I think he tries too hard to be something he's not, and in doing so comes across as a bit disingenuous. And a bit smarmy.

 Simon4 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:
He has every chance to repeat the success of Francois Hollande in France - now the least popular, most despised president in the history of the fifth republic, while the French economy drops through the floor and their brightest and best run for the borders. We probably won't get the mild amusement of the French bedroom farce in compensation though.

This would be the prime ministerial candidate who "forgot" to mention trivial matters like the economy, the deficit, the EU and immigration? While making a great splash about "people I met in the park" and an ill-thought out, vindictive, petty tax that clearly would raise little and have all manner of peverse effects, while failing totally to address the issue it purports to be for?

He has all the Prime Ministerial qualities of a poor quality fire extinguisher, matched to a ludicrous sense of entitlement. He was recently announcing his "10 year plan" - even the hubris of the Bolsheviks only stretched to 5 year plans.

He might have his uses though - an alternative weapon against ISIS might be to broadcast Ed Miliband speeches on every conceivable wavelength that they will get. After a few days of that, they will be freeing all Yazidi prisoners, building churches for Christians, embracing Shias and declaring their support for liberal democracy, with religion reduced to the private sphere - anything rather than have to listen to EM saying "my friends" in that nasal whine again.

Might be classed as a cruel and unusual punishment though.
Post edited at 12:51
OP Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to cander:

> He's in a difficult position - he's clearly sincere, and obviously not a shit

I tend to think the same about Nick Clegg, but Nick Clegg is also quite normal. The vote on AV really showed that the Tories are "better politicians" than him, by which I mean horrible, unprincipled cads.
 climbwhenready 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

He doesn't know how to act in social situations and comes across as weird.

Regardless of his good qualities, the PM represents the country to the rest of the world, meaning those factors above will, I think, stop people from voting for Labour.
 balmybaldwin 25 Sep 2014
In reply to cander:

> (In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt)
>
> He's in a difficult position - he's clearly sincere, and obviously not a shit

Not sure why you would think he's sincere? he changes his mind as often as the wind changes direction (like most MPs)

Also not sure why he is obviously not a shit - I'm not sure his brother would see it that way.

Quite an unfortuante choice of leader, as David looked like he could do the job (if he would just put that banana away)
Post edited at 13:02
 cander 25 Sep 2014
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Now you mention that ... how short my memory is - I'd forgotton he shat on his brother, but to be fair his brother was just TB light!
Post edited at 15:06
 wintertree 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Simon4:

Most of your post resonates strongly with my views. However:

> He was recently announcing his "10 year plan" - even the hubris of the Bolsheviks only stretched to 5 year plans.

We need a 10 year plan. We need a lot more planning on the 10-20 year scales. I often wonder if most of the problems we face are caused, or compounded, by rampant short term-ism. It's reassuring that at least some people acknowledge that it takes a long time to make a big change that isn't going to collapse back in on itself as the short term scaffolding rots out.

Of course, you could say that the arrogance embodied in assuming that he would remain PM for 10 years is quite staggering...
Post edited at 15:11
 ByEek 25 Sep 2014
In reply to jkarran:

> I think he's doing rather well at the moment and creeping up in my estimations.

I'm with you on that. I was quite impressed with his speech and I don't see anything significant about the fact he didn't mention the economy.

But then Andy Burnham came on PM and sounded like he was making it all up.

I didn't think Cameron would make a very good PM but he isn't doing too bad a job. It is funny how people we don't really see as leaders fit the role once in office.
 MonkeyPuzzle 25 Sep 2014
In reply to wintertree:

> We need a 10 year plan. We need a lot more planning on the 10-20 year scales. I often wonder if most of the problems we face are caused, or compounded, by rampant short term-ism. It's reassuring that at least some people acknowledge that it takes a long time to make a big change that isn't going to collapse back in on itself as the short term scaffolding rots out.

On energy, we need more like a 50-100 year plan. As a result of careerist politicians of all colours we have effectively no energy plan.

I find Ed Milliband disappointing for different reasons in general though. A failure to thoroughly skewer a rather confused and confusing coalition is more than a little embarrassing. Ed Balls is an arse but at least he goes for the jugular (interesting metaphorical mental picture there).
 GrahamD 25 Sep 2014
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> On energy, we need more like a 50-100 year plan. As a result of careerist politicians of all colours we have effectively no energy plan.

As a result of us all (collectively) electing careerist politicians you mean ? unfortunately the great British public only seems to be interested in securing the lowest possible here-and-now electricity prices so we all have to shoulder some responsibility here.
 MonkeyPuzzle 25 Sep 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

I vote for the best candidate on the card. The alternative is to join Russell Brand.
 Shani 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:
Totally agree. He is not a natural leader and comes across as a bit wet. Rather like a sixth form debating society member.

Over the years I've got sick of hearing him saying "We've listened to people...." every time either he, Labour, or politicians in general mess up.

He should have 'listened' BEFORE he came to power in Labour, and brought a vision to politics. Now he comes across as someone who would do or say anything just to get in to power. His brand of politics is barely distinguishable from the Tories in many ways.

I can't believe Labour have found someone who out-Kinnocks Kinnock and out-Foots Michael Foot. The Tories must be pissing themselves laughing. Even Hague was not as bad as E-Type, and Hague has actually become more seasoned with age. Maybe the same will happen with Milliband, but it's unlikely to happen before the next election. David M has vastly superior leadership qualities in my opinion.
Post edited at 16:00
 hokkyokusei 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Simon4:

> This would be the prime ministerial candidate who "forgot" to mention trivial matters like the economy ...

It's not just Milliband, the whole party seem to be avoiding it. Recently, I have somehow managed to get myself on a Labour Party mailing list of potential supporters. This week they asked me -

"Which issue do you think is the most important facing Britain?
- Cost of living
- Crime
- Education
- Housing
- Immigration
- Jobs
- NHS
- Social Security"

Hmmm, what's missing from that list?!
Moley 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

On the deficit: In the four years since we lost the last election, we have learnt hard, important lessons.

They start with government having to live within its means. If people feel cynical now - and they do - think how much worse it would be if we made false promises.


So it has taken the Labour party 4 years to learn that a government has to live within it's means - presumably they didn't realise that before?

No, he doesn't inspire confidence.
 alan moore 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Shani:

Neil Kinnock is one of the great Labour leaders. Being balding, ginger and Welsh were the qualities that made him unelectable. Sadly.
 The New NickB 25 Sep 2014
In reply to hokkyokusei:

Cost of living is code for the economy.
 DaveHK 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

I sometimes wonder what the Miliband is the unit of.

OP Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to alan moore:

> Neil Kinnock is one of the great Labour leaders. Being balding, ginger and Welsh were the qualities that made him unelectable. Sadly.

He should've got some credit for balding if being ginger was one of the problems. As for being Welsh, he was a few years too early - it's quite trendy now.
 seankenny 25 Sep 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

> He doesn't know how to act in social situations and comes across as weird.

One of George W Bush's selling points was that he was the politician whom most voters would like to go out for a beer with. He wasn't weird. And look how well that all went.



 BnB 25 Sep 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

> Cost of living is code for the economy.

But it patronises voters who today understand the economy is about more than the cost of living. It betrays an agenda that worked in 2013 but may lack traction in 2015.

OP Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

I suppose wanting someone honest, with a triple figure IQ, not a warmonger and not prime school bully fodder is a bit too much to ask for.
 Shani 25 Sep 2014
In reply to alan moore:
> Neil Kinnock is one of the great Labour leaders. Being balding, ginger and Welsh were the qualities that made him unelectable. Sadly.

I don't think Kinnock was a great leader despite his good political ideas.

You don't have to be the best politician or have the best policies to be a great leader.

BoJo is a good example of this. He's a bit of a duffer and far from perfect (who is?), but people like him and can relate to him. He has some sound opinions and some I disagree with. But he doesn't come across as desperate to be liked, inhuman and broadly capable - unlike either of the two Ed's.

He is prepared to speak his mind, not always towing the party line, which is also a bonus.
Post edited at 18:06
OP Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Shani:

I think it's because he doesn't pretend to like pasties.
gar303 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

i've had to creat an account just to post this:

'The first clear chance for years to differentiate themselves, to renounce austerity and commit to a genuine Labour manifesto, sod the Mail, renationalise, reunionise, tax the rich, protect the poor, FIGHT FOR THE WORKING CLASS WHICH IS TECHNICALLY THEIR F*CKING PURPOSE and all they can offer is the Vegetarian Option.'

full article here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/23/ian-martin-labour-conferenc...

re the economy, pay some attention to his green/low carbon plans inc insulating 5mil of the coldest homes about...lots and lots of work for a supply chain than can't be offshored,that utilises mid level skills and is compramised of loads of micro and smes, that'd do it alone...

pity he was light on the financing of it all
 seankenny 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Shani:


> He is prepared to speak his mind, not always towing the party line, which is also a bonus.

No, he is prepared to speak whatever he thinks will make him popular at the time. In effect, he's prepared to speak your mind.
OP Yanis Nayu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

I disagree - if Boris is asked whether or note he likes pasties, I think he'd tell you whether or not he like pasties.

Ed Milliband would think "Shit, who like pasties? Should I like pasties? What's the line on liking pasties?", and then start a rambling response with a patronising "Look,..."

British politics packaged in a pastry case...
 earlsdonwhu 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

He doesn't look as if he commands his own party so how he expects to come over as enough of an authority figure to persuade us to let him run the whole country, I don't know.

Sadly, his best chance might be that the alternatives are simply even worse/ damaged goods.
 Skol 25 Sep 2014
In reply to earlsdonwhu:
Ed is fine. At least he hasn't had to apologise to the queen yet. Moo haha. Moo haha
 Bruce Hooker 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Shani:

> BoJo is a good example of this....

As leader of the Labour Party?!

Not yet
 pec 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

> I tend to think the same about Nick Clegg, but Nick Clegg is also quite normal. The vote on AV really showed that the Tories are "better politicians" than him, by which I mean horrible, unprincipled cads. >

Why? Because they let him have the AV referendum he'd asked for but campaigned against it because they didn't agree with it and funnily enough, neither did most of the public. Which aspect of that is mean and unprincipled?

 hokkyokusei 25 Sep 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

> Cost of living is code for the economy.

I wonder why they feel they can only refer to the economy via a cryptic code?
 MonkeyPuzzle 25 Sep 2014
In reply to pec:

No, they wouldn't allow a vote on PR, which had a good chance of succeeding, so he had to try and campaign for AV which nobody wanted.
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:



> Ed Milliband would think "Shit, who like pasties? Should I like pasties? What's the line on liking pasties?", and then start a rambling response with a patronising "Look,..."

"Look, we've listened to the British people on pasties, and while some people like them, others do not. But let's not forget, pasties have Protected Geographical Indication status in Europe, and that brings with it certain responsibilities to the government, to look after the interests of disabled Gay Cornish single parent pasty makers. Now watch me eat this bacon sandwich."

The man is hopeless.

Anyone else follow Mr Milibean in Private Eye?

 pec 25 Sep 2014
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> No, they wouldn't allow a vote on PR, which had a good chance of succeeding, so he had to try and campaign for AV which nobody wanted. >

This was all thrashed out as part of the coalition deal, each party fought for the maximum they realistically hoped they could get, that's how it works when nobody has an overall majority which is precisely what would happen all the time if we had PR. Its not unprincipled, its how politics works.
Do you have any evidence to suggest that PR had a good chance of success? Most people just don't care about this sort of thing, there was only a 42% turnout anyway and it would have been lower it it weren't that other elections were taking place on the same day.


 Skyfall 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

Most people I know think Ed is unelectable, like Foot. Poor communicator, awful non-statesman image, too far left. Ok, no duffel coat, but otherwise it's a similar story.

On the other hand, Cameron is not doing well and the recent embarrassment about the Queen surely dents even his statesman image.

Labour would clearly be better without Ed. Heck, I'd vote for his brother but not Ed. I think they lose the middle ground by default with Ed as leader.

If labour switched horses they'd have a very good chance but not with Ed.
 Padraig 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

Am I the ONLY person who would vote for his Mrs. rather than him! sigh!
marelibertas 25 Sep 2014
In reply to Padraig:

They are all satanic, and working for the same hidden hand. A compassionate politician is an oxymoron.
 The New NickB 25 Sep 2014
In reply to hokkyokusei:

> I wonder why they feel they can only refer to the economy via a cryptic code?

It's hardly cryptic. It is just an area of the debate where they feel they are winning.
 hokkyokusei 26 Sep 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

Cost of living is one small part of the economy, they are not synonymous. In fact once the economy does start to recover, and interest rates rise, as they inevitably must, the sot of living for those two have taken on mortgages at historically low rates, may see that the two terms can be inversely proportional.

Labour dare not mention the E-word directly because much of the electorate still blame them for borrowing to spend during the last boom which certainly didn't help the levels of debt when the boom turned to bust. I'm not blaming them for the banking crisis directly, but many people do. Omitting use of the word 'economy' and replacing it with 'cost of living' just looks like guilt, at least it does to me.
 winhill 26 Sep 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

> He really is a liability, isn't he? I can't see him persuading the public to vote for him.

> Should the labour party get shot of him now, before it's too late, and give us some sort of alternative to the tories?

Some of the stuff seems to have gone down quite well, the Mansion Tax in particular shows people maybe moving away from Tory individualism. Interesting that the anti-referendum position is well regarded by a large amount of corporate types, shades of Heseltine there. That and immigration shows that he's willing to take UKIP supporters on, rather than appease them like Cameron. Although it could be argued he has less to lose and can be a bit more bullish.

Be interesting to see what happens over the TV debates next time, will Farage get a look in? That would be good for Ed, or will it be just the big two, which might not be, unless Ed can make Cameron look like a bit of a chancer.

Cooper's got to be favourite to replace him but I doubt there's time.
 Mike Stretford 26 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

> One of George W Bush's selling points was that he was the politician whom most voters would like to go out for a beer with. He wasn't weird. And look how well that all went.

I don't think it went bad because he had a likeable personality.
 MonkeyPuzzle 26 Sep 2014
In reply to winhill:

> Be interesting to see what happens over the TV debates next time, will Farage get a look in? That would be good for Ed, or will it be just the big two, which might not be, unless Ed can make Cameron look like a bit of a chancer.

Farage doesn't deserve a look in at all as things stand and it baffles me why he's afforded the free publicity he is. Within twenty minutes of the independence referendum result being announced he was being interviewed on Radio 4 - he isn't even a f*cking MP! Needless to say, Caroline Lucas was asked for her opinion moments later... oh wait, no she wasn't.
 zebidee 26 Sep 2014
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Farage doesn't deserve a look in at all as things stand and it baffles me why he's afforded the free publicity he is.

Absolutely.

House of Commons: 0 / 650
House of Lords: 3 / 754
European Parliament: 24 / 73
Northern Ireland Assembly: 1 / 108
Local government (UK): 370 / 20,565
Police and Crime Commissioner: 0 / 41
London Assembly: 0 / 25
Welsh Assembly: 0 / 60
Scottish Parliament: 0 / 129

I just don't understand why he gets so much attention in the press.
 MonkeyPuzzle 26 Sep 2014
In reply to zebidee:

The press are trying to make UKIP into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 Bruce Hooker 26 Sep 2014
In reply to hokkyokusei:

Did they have any choice but to borrow themselves out of the crisis? The right wing government of France did the same and came though the affair with little damage, but a bigger debt. What do people want?
 hokkyokusei 26 Sep 2014
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

> Did they have any choice but to borrow themselves out of the crisis?

No, but they made it much harder than it need have been by borrowing in the previous boom.
 Banned User 77 26 Sep 2014
In reply to jkarran:

I don't like him, I think Labour will win but will lose the next election, I don't think EM is a long term option
 Mike Stretford 26 Sep 2014
In reply to zebidee:
> Absolutely.

> House of Commons: 0 / 650

> House of Lords: 3 / 754

> European Parliament: 24 / 73

> Northern Ireland Assembly: 1 / 108

> Local government (UK): 370 / 20,565

> Police and Crime Commissioner: 0 / 41

> London Assembly: 0 / 25

> Welsh Assembly: 0 / 60

> Scottish Parliament: 0 / 129

One of those shouldn't count anyway (clue: the largest national legislative assembly in the world after the Chinese National People’s Congress).
Post edited at 15:34
 winhill 26 Sep 2014
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Farage doesn't deserve a look in at all as things stand and it baffles me why he's afforded the free publicity he is.

I'm surprised there is much Labour support for TV debates at all, given that Clegg was the result last time.

But I think UKIP would point to their euro success and claim they had more right than Clegg, given where the LibDems stand now or last time.
 MonkeyPuzzle 26 Sep 2014
In reply to winhill:

I don't think anyone can look to a vote with 30% turnout and use it as leverage for anything. They have zero MPs - a charismatic leader is a bonus, but shouldn't buy them a seat at any table.
 winhill 26 Sep 2014
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Wasn't the mooted plan for a 2-3-5 format? With Farage and the Greens?
 Sean Kelly 26 Sep 2014
In reply to alan moore:

At least he spoke with passion and wasn't coached!

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