UKC

Ok, if we were in the collisium would the new ukc be getting a thumbs up or a thumbs down?

First impressions for me are really good, particularly the logbook sections. Haven't really got stuck into the forums yet but seem straightforward so far. I like the idea of being able to directly link to a particular route.

One question is who's paying for it? I haven't seen any adverts and I've been browsing for twenty minutes.

Vote here ------->

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'm a dinosaur and I fear change, but I've only been here for a few months anyway so I barely even noticed. Thought I was lost at first, but soon adjusted. I particularly like the walnut paneling, but it could do with a few more cup holders.

In reply to deacondeacon:

It all seems good to me, I don't really use the logbook so can't comment on that. I have adverts on the top and bottom of every page, and on the hideable sidebar.

Not so sure about the like/dislike buttons, it should be interesting to see how they're used!

In reply to deacondeacon:

It looks cleaner, and the navigation seems to work better on touch screen.

Can we have the custom page colours back, please? It's all a bit bright for me, with all the white space.

It displays a lot better on my mobile now - I approve! No link back to 'my forums' from the bottom of the thread but that's a minor thing.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Much better on Android now, which recently since getting this phone is the main way I view the site at lunchtime rather than in the evenings at home

In reply to deacondeacon:

I like it. I still have my custom colours... sort of.

Only gripe is the very large 'elsewhere on the site' tabs. The forum used to be more centered on screen,I guess I can survive tho

I do really like the crag/climb link option. It would be really cool to have the option of adding a picture link too but only for pics from the from the UKC photo database.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Works much better than the old one on my phone, but I miss being able to see who posted a topic from the main thread list; seems pretty good so far on my laptop as well.

It'll be interesting to see how/if the like and dislike buttons get used.

In reply to deacondeacon:

everything seems to work ok except that the quality of the photos and adverts... any images on here are looking quite poor all of a sudden and they were fine yesterday?

In reply to GrendeI:

Till you mentioned it I hadn't really noticed the massive sidebar!
I evidently need more coffee. If only I could find the kettle

Now I'm actually looking at it there is a lot of screen space being used there.

In reply to deacondeacon:

In the Forums, when you have got to the bottom of a discussion there does not seem to be a way to get back to the list of topics/forums.

I have to scroll up to the top of the discussion to find a button that will return me to the forums.

Any chance of such a button at the bottom of a discussion as well?

Liking the new look though.

In reply to deacondeacon:

The logbook menu drops down behind the adverts so I can't click on any of the menu items. I'm on iPad

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Till you mentioned it I hadn't really noticed the massive sidebar!

You definitely need more coffee, there is an option to hide the side bar!

In reply to The Lemming:

There's the arrow at the bottom left like before?

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Works less well than the old one on my iPhone.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Call me predictable, but I don't like it. The other version was more compact and I could see more, this version just takes up too much room on the page, it is too spread out, lots of wasted space.

In reply to loundsy:


Less well?? It's a million times better! Finally I can read the whole thread without having to scroll around endlessly

Like!!

In reply to loundsy:


works way better on my phone. F^ck apple!

In reply to Jon Stewart:
Nothing to do with Apple, it's working great on my iPhone.
Not sure what Lourdsy's beef is?

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Morning.

Before this new design, when I got to the end of a long discussion there used to be a button which allows me to go back to the forums with one click. Now, it seems that I have to click an up arrow before clicking a button to allow me to view the forums.

It's not the end of the world, however it could get frustrating over time.






Yes, it is frustrating.

In reply to deacondeacon:
Works fine but looks no where near as nice as the old version, but given the time and effort that has gone into the new look I dought you will be changing it back any time soon. Works great looks horrable.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Two things I'd not noticed in the beta site:

1) Replying to a post takes you to the very bottom of the thread, and you have to scroll down to find it. Very slow.

2) When clicking 'My Topics': you no longer get auto-jumped down to the post you submitted, you only get bounced to the OP at the top of the thread - again, very slow.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I like it. Though when trying to move the cursor around in the message box, it doesn't want to stay where I try to place it and always jumps up to the next line and never in line with where I want it.

When clicking the 'quote original text' it always puts it below what I've written. This has been the case since the previous change but it does annoy me.

I can't find a link to 'show latest threads' either?


On the whole, a thumbs up from me.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Just looked at the recent photos and the picture quality is terrable (not the shots). Am on my phone at the moment so done know if its that, will try on my computer and tablet when I get in but if it is the same bad quality them will seriously think about not bothering to post photos on here anymore.

In reply to deacondeacon:
Hmmm, I like it other than not seeing who started the thread.. There's a few posters who I know to avoid...

In reply to deacondeacon:

Are they updating all the crag/route databases? If so I hope theyve added a "latest routes done at the crag" section to the crag page.. Thumbs up for the new forums, not so sure about the photos section.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I don't think it makes goo use of screen space.

Vertical space is premium on normal screens and the previous left hand side bar (vs top bar) is wasteful of screen space. I realise this probably makes sense on a mobile phone or tablet held in the portrait direction but elsewhere is is wasteful and reduces the experience to a letter box.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Doesn't work at all well on opera mini, a step backwards for me.

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

The forum right sidebar isn't shown on mobile devices.

In reply to The Lemming:

There's a link to My Forums next to the arrow.

In reply to Alex the Alex:

There's some more changes to the Logbooks going through in the near future (which will definitely include latest routes done at the crag) but I didn't have time in this release.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Overall I like the layout but don't like the fact you can't see grades or partners on your logbook. I'm not bothered about seeing if I onsighted it but would prefer to know who I climbed with or what grade the climb was. Is there a way I can change the layout of my personal logbook page?

In reply to Kimono:
Sorry I should have been more specific, forums pages are fine, the logbook pages don't work as well on my phone, I can't see the grade or partners columns on my logbook and there is less on the page somehow. Minor gripe and I'm sure I'll get used to it. Bloody iPhones!

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'm glad that UKC have finally adopted a responsive approach to the site – it's been needed for a long time. I've not tried it on other devices yet but I can see the responsive layout will help on the smaller screens.

It does need a designer's touch, though, the UI is inconsistent and it lacks visual hierarchy.

In reply to deacondeacon:

It isn't very obvious where to log in - I only found it when I tried to do something which required me to, and provided a link. Once I'd done so I noticed the little arrow to the side, but it wasn't clear before.

I find the graphs less clear now they cover the full width of the page and don't like having to choose tabs rather than scroll down the page.

The new appearance is very 'clean' but somehow I find it more difficult to read. Too much white space together with a lightweight font. Maybe it's my age. I guess it's aimed at mobile users but I'm invariably on a computer.

Not sure why the order of things on the menu has been changed, but I guess I'll get used to it.

In reply to James FR:


Are they just on the mobile version, there's none on my computer screen (fortunately)?
They were tried a few years ago and dropped after protests.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

On the subject of logbooks, I think it would improve the quality of voting if you couldn't see what everyone else had voted on the 'add to logbook' page. I suspect* being able to see the current consensus introduces a large bias. I'm not suggest hiding the votes entirely until you've added your own; just when you're adding a tick.

*actually, it would be cool if you could get some data on this... change it for half of the users, wait until you've observed several thousand 'ticks' from both groups then analyse what fraction of people voted for/against the consensus.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

The new site looks great, especially the photos section. Great work

However, on my system at least (Windows Firefox), using the arrow keys to cycle through the top 10 photos in full screen mode cancels the full screen mode each time dumping you back at the next photos base url.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Any idea why my PC is still on the old version of the site? It is a work one with an anchient version of IE... is that why?

In reply to balmybaldwin:

Yes, old versions of IE will get the old site I'm afraid. You need to be on at least IE9.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I can press like or dislike on something - but I can't see the number of likes/dislikes. A bug?

Neil

In reply to David Walker:

I'll see what I can do about that but it'll be later in the week.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Hmm, how do you hide the sidebar? When I first looked there was a big "hide sidebar" icon, which I clicked and the sidebar disappeared. Then the sidebar came back and I can't see the icon any more.

(It would be nice if there were an option to tone down the white background a bit.)

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Any chance of less white space and a grown-up font for non-mobile devices?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Same here. Once you bring the sidebar back, the "hide sidebar" button isn't there anymore.

In reply to deacondeacon:
Have just been looking at the photos gallery and now think the thing that is making me dislike it is not the quality of the photos but the white backgroud.

In reply to Russell Lovett:


Don't really follow this comment.

The white background was always there - http://www.ukhillwalking.com/photos/thisweek.html

Alan

In reply to mbh:

Refresh the page.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


So the "hide sidebar" is there when viewing a thread, but not when viewing a forum, correct?

In reply to deacondeacon:

Wow, I think the new UKC looks fantastic! It feels a lot cleaner and a lot more modern. I find it a little bit strange that there's still the grey 'dead space' around the sides but everything else seems really nice.

Especially like the new logbooks!

In reply to Tyler:

You beat me to it. Can't use the drop down list unless I am being very stupid as usual.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Moderate crags seems to have been lost from the drop down menu for Logbooks. Adds an extra navigation step to get there which is slightly less good. Too early to comment on the look for now.

In reply to deacondeacon:


Thumbs up. I like it. Cleaner and brighter and crisper.

Until I found 'Hide Sidebar' I felt the layout was driving me over to the left too much, threatening to run me off the road, but with it hidden for a thread it's much better.

In reply to deepstar:

I'll look into this, it's matching against Nose Climb instead.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

I think this is a wider and longer standing problem. Quite often (though I'd struggle to find an example right now), I look through the photos of routes / problems to find photos of other routes there. Not explaining very well, but I will find an example.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


So there is. My chubby fingers on my Nexus 7 could not press it as it was too close to the up arrow. However I could hit it with pin-pint precision with my mouse.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I have a few issues none of them major:

1. This message "To list messages for just a single forum (e.g., Expedition & Alpine) click on a link at the side of this page." My links are at the top of the page not the side.

2. My browser no longer remembers my login details and I have to log on again every time I visit UKC.

3. There is now a lot of white on my screen.

In reply to Removed User:


I agree

In reply to Neil Williams:



Same here, the button turns green if I "like" a post, but as far as I can tell nothing else happens.

There are a few bugs are being found that we will iron out. Paul was up until 3am last night finishing this off so he has nipped back to bed for a well-earned rest.

Comments still welcome but we may not respond immediately.

Alan

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

for san vito lo capo salinella http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=8671 I get a weird mix of old and not quite right new formatting, it also tells me my ticks are for seconding and tr ascents, i have only ever ticked routes using the default "climbed"

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

On the "logbooks" page for a crag there is now a photo section that continually "slides left" to swap photos. Why oh why do people use the "slide left" method of swapping images? It causes a wave of nausea in me every time an image in my visual field starts moving, which means that I can't use those pages (though evidently I'm much more sensitive to this than most people). Any chance of a "user option" that switches "slides left" image-changes off?

In reply to GridNorth:

Sorted

Maybe on the first visit to the new site but I've not had any trouble with it remembering me. Are you ticking the Remember me checkbox?

This is to make things less crammed together and easier to click on whether you're using a mouse or a finger.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

That better?

In reply to scott titt:

I only have a logbook entry as a result of seeing how it worked, but all my climbs are now listed as 2nd or top rope although, like you, all were entered just as 'climbed'

In reply to deacondeacon:

Looks great on Safari - Mac and Galaxy SII all things considered. Nice to have a responsive layout.

Its good but I cant seem to browse photos in the old "Lucky Dip" mode which helped eat into the countless hours behind a desk!

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Yes I checked the Remember me checkbox. I've also cleared my browser cache and history but it still does not remember me and I have to login again everytime.

In reply to scott quinn:

Works OK for me? - http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/random.html

In reply to scott titt:
I'll sort this out. It was changed to a blue tick for Second and Top-rope and Green tick for Lead, Solo, etc. I'll make the Lead with no sub-style a Green one too.

Edit: Done!

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Hi Paul. My user options had been changed but it does raise another issue, the system no longer confirms that you are logged in as.........

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


Much, much better! Thank you!

In reply to deacondeacon:

Not fussed on it, same old, with more space for advertising.
Oh, and the weather icons have gone from crag information

In reply to deacondeacon:
first checked it out on my mobile - works great on there, much better than before on a small screen, but the PC version is just too spread out. Font is very thin and makes it hard to read. Logbooks especially so.

Also: is there anyway to make pictures appear centred when viewing the galleries, if they're in portrait then I often have to zoom out to see them in their entirety?

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

'This is to make things less crammed together and easier to click on whether you're using a mouse or a finger'

Surely that would be achieved by increasing the size of the button that is clicked on. I find the new screen layout too bright to look at comfortably, and each screen now contains less text so more effort is now required to take in the same amount of information.

In reply to GridNorth:

How many accounts do you have?

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'm now looking at it on a tablet and it's much better. Clearly optimised for mobile use but less good on a PC.

In reply to Removed User:

Wasted space is a major feature of modern websites! Why? I suppose the geeks who design them have different eyes.

In reply to digby:


Or maybe because these geeks have looked at what people in general prefer and come up with the correct solution.

The re-design was basically done in response to making the format work on smaller screens that require finger-tip navigation, at the same time as working on larger monitors. We have also consistently had feedback from many people that the old site was too cluttered. The new design works really well at satisfying these three requirements.

I am certain that if we packed everything in so that we used every pixel, then we would get many comments about the site being too cluttered. I have been using it for a few months now and find that I am seeing articles much more easily than before. It obviously works much better on the iPad.

Alan

In reply to digby:

It's not so much wasted space as focussing on the information being presented. Whitespace is an important element in this but it's a balancing act between too little and too much. Then there's the concept of line length, again there's an optimum number of characters in a line: too few or too many characters reduces comprehensibility or legibility.

Having space around links for example helps with navigation, ensuring that you don't click/press/touch the wrong one. This is why some of the links are wrapped up as "buttons".

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
I've visited many sites during my struggles designing a WordPress site. I have seen sites go from easily readable and pleasantly useable html sites to ridiculously large and spaced out php affairs. I don't believe it has anything to do with what people want.
The ordnance survey forum pages for instance became so ridiculously huge for instance that one would have a page where the upper half was consumed with the various (but few) menu bars of the site, followed by a couple of forum headings (huge and with a vast font size) and so right at the bottom of the screen (quite a large desktop one) the words - Dear John...
The default theme of our site, if left alone, would be similar. It's been an almightly struggle to overcome it.

My comment was not directed at this site, it was a general one! But there is just that slight hint of oversize here, in my opinion.

I understand the point about mobiles. But as, at least as I know it in WordPress, the two media are separated in css and I never found the old site cluttered on a desktop machine.

In reply to Bob:

Bearing in mind I am not talking about mobiles or pads, do you think the fonts on Facebook are too small? I find FB perfectly readable. The one I am typing with just now is much larger.

The best solution would be to allow users to set their own font size. Rather like FBPurity with Facebook.

In reply to digby:

Ctrl+ +/- does that (Cmd + +/- for Mac)

Dunno about Facebook as I don't use it.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Either its no longer possible to see other users log book, or i can't find where to click.

In reply to Bob:

It's not as simple as enlarging the screen - that just makes everything big, which makes it more difficult to read but in a slightly different way. My issue is with the weight of the font - it's very 'skinny' and doesn't show up very well against the areas of white space when viewed on a large screen. On a tablet (and presumably on a phone, but I haven't tried that) it is a different matter, the text is clear and the balance between black text and white space appears to be better. Perhaps it's due to a higher resolution screen, but the contrast seems much better on the tablet compared with a monitor.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

would it be possible when you do this to have a link back to the crag you have just been adding a route from. For example when i logged my last route you get the following text: "Adding Tiger Trot (Stoney Middleton) into your logbook... OK. [ edit log ] " If "Tiger Trot" and "Stoney Middleton" generated links back to the relevant route and crag it would save so much time.

also disappointed the partners column has disappeared in the logbooks so would be nice to have that back

lastly it used to default to the your partners feed if you clicked on it but now it always reverts to latest changes to all logbooks that I'm not really interested in.

In reply to Howard J:

My issue is with the weight of the font - it's very 'skinny' and doesn't show up very well against the areas of white space when viewed on a large screen.

I'm using a 24" monitor and to me, it looks fine and is easily readable/legible.
Maybe they should put a 'Specsavers' advert in the sidebar...

In reply to Skip:


i can't see this either from someone's profile.

In reply to GridNorth:

yes this is annoying as i share the computer with my wife and i don't want to log routes or post as her, it was very obvious before, instead of saying "user" in the top right can't it user your profile name it is more personal too.

In reply to FactorXXX:

I'm using a 13 inch Mac and the text is very large. Could be a browser setting?

In reply to deacondeacon:

just found the hide sidebar button this makes things much better on the forums and sorts out all that white space

In reply to jon:

Hi Paul, I just noticed your test email comment against the photo. I don't know when you posted it, but no email has come.

In reply to deacondeacon:

The "Open In Maps" button is nice but would be even better if it contained all the crag locations. Would be super useful for navigation to have google maps on my phone with crags marked..

I've tried to figure out how to do this myself before but no luck so far...

-ross

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Yeah, the method for adding to logbooks still needs some work but I didn't have time to add all the changes I wanted to get in within this release.

The climbs by your partners has moved to a new page so it's together with My Logbook and fits a little better there. I just left the link on the Logbook index page as a few people in the beta test missed where it'd moved to.

Cheers for the feedback.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I haven't read the whole thread because its too long so sorry if this is already discussed.

This is a massive improvement. The site is now useable on mobile phones! Looks very clean and clear too.

One serious gripe though. The 5 headline image carousel on the home page is fairly unusable. On a computer screen its impossible to click through quickly, when you click once, the navigation icon goes away for a couple of seconds, meaning when you click the second time too quickly you're taken through to the article page. Really annoying. On a mobile it appears to be impossible to click through the carousel at all, with any thumb press, even over the "next" icon, clicking through to the article. Again, pretty annoying.

Other than that, great job!

In reply to jon:
I'll sort this tomorrow.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

OK ta.

In reply to neilwiltshire:

What desktop browser are you using? On a mobile/tablet you can flick left/right on the carousel.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


Just looking at my photos and a crag shot I recently took of The Elephant's Back at Fairy Cave Quarry which has the grade E2 5b whereas the correct grade is Hard Severe .The next photo in my gallery is of a route called Grow your own Weekend which is actually E2 5b, it seems to be a bit like the Two Ronnies sketch "Answering the question before last"

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Paul, as I and a number of others have pointed out the new design is doubtless a great improvement on mobile devices. However, on desktop monitors the font is too large and there is too much white space. Would it be possible to set up some sort of user preference allowing the user to choose a format and font more appropriate to a full sized monitor?

In reply to John2:

Ha! I really like the large font! Must be an age thing.

In reply to John2:


I think a lot of people (myself included, currently on a 24" 1920x1200 desktop monitor) disagree with this sentiment. However, I suppose an option to choose font size would keep everyone happy.

In reply to jon:

I find it difficult to cope with. More eye movement and more scrolling up and down is required to take in the same amount of information.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Just come back from a week in Mallorca to be greeted with the new interface, and was initially put off, until I figured out entry to the various sections was via the icons.

The text is a lot clearer - and I can almost read it without my specs!

In reply to deacondeacon:

It looks like sick on a plate.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Couple more thoughts, now I've looked also on iPad mini. Sure some of these things are as a result of making the site easier on smartphones, but I don't have one so can't comment there! Overall it's interesting and a lot to like, and everything I've tried works fine. There's a LOT of white space, it's actually painfully bright for me. Could be a result of the skinny font as someone suggests above. On find crags if you have a long list of crags (eg for a whole area) there's acres of wasted space, this could be a lot more compact? Also, on a crag listing with ticks I don't like having the climb name colour coded, it looks too busy with green, red and blue names, some bold others not. For me the green tick, Red Cross and all names in blue with bold for ticked routes is preferable.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Does anyone else have the problem of not being able to log in if using Firefox? I have allowed cookies to be accepted but it still refuses to work. I can log in using Chrome.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I think the 'like' and 'dislike' buttons ought to be excluded from 'ctrl-f' searches within the page; I foolishly tried to look for the 'like/dislike' discussion, and got at least two hits per post...

I was hoping to reply to Paul's comment (maybe another thread) about the like/dislike buttons not doing much at the moment, as they are 'on trial'. My point being that if they don't do much at the moment, users won't get a good idea of how well the system might work.

Whilst I have some reservations about potential abuse of these buttons, I've seen other forums where feedback can be useful. In particular, on more 'technical' forums, where the responses are 'helpful/not helpful'; you can get a feel for the sanity (hmm) or otherwise of the posted responses, provided everybody plays sensibly...

In reply to deacondeacon:
One other suggestion would be for user control of the forum icon strip, possibly linked to 'favourite forums' options. Favourite forums would appear first in the strip, and the more obscure (or deselected) forums then appearing later, or mopped up with the 3-stripe menu.

I note that the forum strip sometimes wraps, and sometimes shows as the 3-stripe menu.

[edit] interestingly, I can grab the forum strip icons, but I can't drop them in the desired place in the strip (I get a 'no entry' sign). Looks like it might be half-way there...

In reply to Bob:


No thanks to that. A css preference or a good design.

In reply to John2:


I heartily agree!

In reply to John2:

On the old version did you opt for the larger font? I did and it was only just big enough for me. I don't know how much bigger the font is on the new but it's a huge improvement (for me). Now whether it's the white back ground that helps or if the font is bigger, I don't know. However, one thing that struck me straight away about the Forums page was that I find there's not enough difference between the very light blue and the white alternating backgrounds to the thread titles. I almost have to tilt my laptop screen backwards to notice it.

In reply to digby:

I'd go for that. I find the font a bit hard to read compared with what went before.

Knocking the browser zoom down to 75% solves that partly, but then you get a lot of wasted screen space.

Neil

In reply to deacondeacon:
I find it oddly disturbing having the wide sidebar on the right. I guess that is forced by the fact that it would be impossible to get the text to wrap to the browser window if it were on the left?

I've just noticed the 'hide sidebar' - hooray! Wrappable full width text!! Yes!!

In reply to Neil Williams:


You'd go for what?
Anyway I don't want, and I think it's bad design, to rely in any way on browser zoom.

In reply to deacondeacon:

And the 'like/dislike' thread reminded me of something else:

Can we have an 'ignore' button? It would save me having to read posts from the sundry tedious loons who lurk here...

I'm prepared to accept the resulting thread discontinuity; I'd know the reason, because I'd see the 'in reply to loonbag365:' markers.

In reply to digby:

For a configurable font, or at the very least a configurable font size.

Neil

In reply to captain paranoia:


Absolutely!! UKC is in danger of becoming a personal notepad filled with interminable 'good ideas for a post' of *............* [insert loon of your choice, I know who I'd vote for]

In reply to Neil Williams:


Yes. Font size and leading.

In reply to hairyRob:

No-one reported any issues during the beta test about that and I haven't had any trouble with Firefox myself. I'll check it out though.

In reply to jon:

I did not opt for the larger font. I used to work as a computer programmer, and I found it necessary to buy relatively expensive varifocal spectacles that made it possible for me to read standard sized text on a screen comfortably.

The effect of the sans serif font that has been chosen is to exaggerate the already excessive amount of white space on the screen.

In reply to John2:

Maybe an option to have a different background colour might help...? Or isn't that the problem.

In reply to deacondeacon:

So how do you hide the elsewhere on ukc sidebar. Doesn't appear to be a button for me or maybe I'm blind

In reply to deacondeacon:

After a bit of looking around I prefer the old version. I pretty much only use UKC on my phone, and I thought it worked really well. I realise that's an unusual opinion, I can't see why people had trouble with it though.
1. Too much wasted space. I suppose that's just personal taste, but could it be an option for a denser view?
2. I want to see the grades when viewing the list of climbs in my logbook. I seem to remember climbs as "some VS at a particular crag", rather than by name.
3. I want to see who started a thread before I click on it. There are posters I don't want to read.
4. The ads are much more intrusive now.

I can't think of anything i prefer about the new site TBH, sorry. At least there's still no avatars, smileys or signatures in the forums though, that's one positive thing!

In reply to deacondeacon:

God, what the hell just happened? It's hideous.

jcm

In reply to deacondeacon:
Enjoyed the site over all, looks good. Will take a bit of getting used to but that's inevitable.

One wee thing I've noticed: obviously a long thread doesn't display all posts when you click into it, but a reduced number to see the last posts. These used to be at the bottom of the page, thus I tend to subconciously scroll right to the page bottom to see the latest. But the side bar with adverts is so long, it hangs off the bottom and you then gota scroll back up to find the latest. Slightly defeats the purpose of the reduced list? And I never like the sidebars to exceed the main content. :p

Maybe that's quite picky, I'll say subtle though!

In reply to deacondeacon:

Looks great, nice one Paul!!! Must feel great to tick off a job from your ever-expanding list!!!

Dunc

In reply to jon:

That's not the problem - the text is too large and is surrounded by too much space.

In reply to deacondeacon:

It is crap: if it ain't broke don't fix it.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Big thumbs up for readability on Android mobile

In reply to kwoods:

Does hiding the sidebar on the this page sort that out for you? There's a button at the top.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Cheers Dunc, appreciated!

In reply to John2:


It does have a bit of the feel of the old Lancashire guide book about it

In reply to neilwiltshire:

You should be able to flick through the homepage carousel at greater speed now.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Is there a problem with the log book/search facility? If I type a climb in the box and click on the magnifying glass nothing happens; there is no drop down of climbs with the same name showing either. Am I doing something wrong?

In reply to kwoods:

There's a button at the top left of the thread that takes you directly to the end of the thread.

As for text size/white space it's only really within a thread that it's noticeable. The thread listing pages are fine. I've found that if you Ctrl/Cmd + - a couple of times it looks a lot better, the browser should remember the setting. One CSS rule that might be useful to add is: p {margin-bottom: 0.5em;} which provides half a line space between paragraphs.

I suspect a lot of resistance is that the old design lasted so long that everyone was comfortable with it. The old design was appalling on mobiles though.

In reply to Bob:

When you say, 'the thread listing pages are fine' you omit the words, 'in my opinion'.

Ctrl- makes the unattractive font even more spidery.

According to Alan James, 36% of users access UKC on a mobile device or tablet. That means that in order to improve the appearance of the site for 36% of users it has been made worse for two-thirds of users.

All I'm asking for is the option to choose a layout that I find acceptable - Paul's unwillingness to even answer me is disappointing.

In reply to deacondeacon: I use my Android phone to view the site and now miss seeing who has posted each thread. Can u select to see the full site some how?

In reply to John2:


I think you forgot the words "in my opinion" after that.


Paul was up to 3am last night working on the site. I told him to take it easy today and have a rest but even so he has been back on making improvements.

If you have any problems with the layout then address them to me, not Paul, since he is far too busy doing more important stuff.

Alan

In reply to deacondeacon:
50/50 feelings - lighter and clearer but some navigation issues with forum topics page

Icons only for forum selection is rubbish (IMO!) - can't identify with the icons and have to think - and why not on the left as before - much more logical to skim a list - spent years learning to read words

Too much white space - more to scroll - slows down reading / skimming - maybe ability to personalize font etc as before ?

Feels like 60/40 now having written that - seems easier to reply than before

EDIT: 65/35 - like the edit feature - except no preview possible doh

In reply to deacondeacon:

I like the idea of a like button instead of just adding a “me too” reply. Unfortunately, I don’t like the thread titles page in the new format as it’s too dilute with all the wasted space and lacks the ease of navigation via the sidebar that the old version had.
The boxes on the right hand side of the screen take up space unnecessarily but pleasingly disappear if you resize (zoom in/out) the page.

Once a thread is opened there’s a lot of scrolling up and down which decreases ease of use.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Nice one. Just remember the old cliche: "you can please some of the people......!"

We have removed the Hide/View button for the side bar on threads since it was giving technical problems with certain browsers. It will be added to the User Options later but this turns out to be slightly trickier than we thought, so it may be a few days before this is implemented.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I'm far from the only one, Alan.

I have no doubt that Paul's hard work has made the site better for the users of mobile devices, but since I do not possess such a device I am not particularly delighted by that.

It does seem to me (feel free to disagree) that those who dislike the new format have displayed more knowledge of typography and graphic design than its supporters.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Having suggested articles to the right of the thread list in the forums makes the list seem much longer and takes longer to scroll down through them

In reply to deacondeacon:

As a few others have commented, it's really bright, uncomfortably so as it's giving me eye strain, and i don't really want to be turning down the screen brightness every time I have a quick look on UKC.

Also, can we have the feature to toggle through photos using the cursor buttons eg on route photos or the top 10 photos of the week you used to be able to click on one then toggle through all of them.

In reply to gethin_allen:


Still can

Alan

In reply to John2:



Maybe they're trying to show off their knowledge? But surely that doesn't mean that we dummies shouldn't have an opinion. It'd be like only professional climbers having any say in general climbing affairs. In many ways us non IT people may have better ideas on this because we know less! My only point is that I really don't want to look at a cluttered screen full of tiny writing.

The screen I'm looking at right now is just great, Alan. Is there no way of providing options that give the folk like John who don't like it what they want? Or indeed allowing them to go back to the old version?

In reply to jon:


One thing we don't do is have knee-jerk responses to people moaning that they don't like the new design. Experience has told us that this happens with everything we change on the web site, every time we change something - remember changing the icons! If we start adding options for everything people want to hang onto then we will never move things forward. So we will iron out the bugs (of which there are quite a few) and then take stock.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I can't get it to work then, I'll have another try.

ok, so it's working now, There must have been some issue with the page loading when I tried last as the buttons at the top left of the photo were missing at that point.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Well I think its a great job. I find it easier to use and much cleaner overall, nice modern website and a good example of a responsive website done well.

In reply to Howard J:


I'd agree.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Agree there is too much white, makes it difficult to see the lightweight text. I like the mobile version though, much easier for those casual in-the-bath bolting debates.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
there is a problem with the new filter system on the logbooks. If you filter by a particular parter or discipline etc, when you click next for the next 50 results it reverts back to your normal logbook page unfiltered.

just noticed you can now see peoples logbooks again from their profile, good work on fixing the bugs

also would prefer if when you click on the user button (which i think should be renamed as your user name as posted previously) in the top right it took you to your profile rather than your user options like on the old site (I think?).

In reply to deacondeacon:

no great issues on macbook pro, although I can't seem to find the alter user colour options and get an orange bar where I don't want to see one. The iOS mobile one is the biggest issue for me. Firstly I get the log in through safari which I do, then get another log in after that! Safari on iOS 8 or 7 never seems to keep me logged in but thats probably nowt to do with you. However not being able to see who posted a thread is an issue, I like to be able to choose whether I waste 20 seconds each time on certain posters threads or not. It's a bit like clicking on a Dan Osman speed climb on youtube atm. Other than that good upgrades.

In reply to the ones in the know:

What's happened to the 'Hide Sidebar' button.
It's been there all day, but now isn't!!!

In reply to deacondeacon:

What was wrong with the old logbooks? I don't get why we should have to look at another advert, there's plenty on the main home page and running along the top constantly but now everytime I want to look at a crag I'm initially faced with another advert, it's simply junk mail, I get enough of that through the letterbox!

Agree with many others that if it's no broke don't fix it!

In reply to FactorXXX:

Caused problems for some so they have suspended it.

In reply to phleppy:


How exactly do you think the site is funded? Essentially, what youre suggesting is that the author of the site should make less money.....

Martin

In reply to phleppy:

How much do you want to pay for the logbooks?

In reply to ericinbristol:

Caused problems for some so they have suspended it.

Thanks to you, boo to the ones that complained!!

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

The filter issue will be sorted in the next update to logbooks. Shouldn't be long.

I'll change the User click to go to profile tomorrow. It'll also show the Current profile name on hover.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Still no H grade option.. Still having to give routes inaccurate grades.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

I'm guessing 20 pence won't cover it?

In reply to deacondeacon:

My computer has just reverted to the old version. Hooray!

In reply to deacondeacon:

I went onto UKH home page by mistake and that is still on the old version, so I guess you could use the site from there if you wanted.

In reply to James Rushforth:


Lot's of white empty space on chrome.....and where is the add to logbook button?

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

'One thing we don't do is have knee-jerk responses to people moaning that they don't like the new design'

Constructive criticism, offering suggestion for improvement, is not knee-jerk moaning.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Overall, I think the team have done a great job, the site has been overhauled visually and given some enhancements, but without making significant changes to the structure of the site as a whole. I contrast this with the BMC site, which since its upgrade looks better but is more difficult to find information on. They have also been astonishingly responsive, given their limited resources, in dealing with actual bugs, while very sensibly taking a more measured response to subjective criticisms on matters of design.

The site undoubtedly works better on mobile devices and now seems to be optimised for those. As these seem to be the future then this change is necessary. However two-thirds of users still do so on conventional computers. I have now tried the site on a laptop and two different monitors and there is no doubt in my mind that the quality varies considerably depending on the size and quality of the monitor, which wasn't an issue with the old design. This is a real problem, especially for us older users whose eyes aren't what they used to be, and I hope this is something the team will address in due course.

In reply to John2:

There weren't accusing people of knee-jerk moaning. They were accusing people of moaning, and saying they wouldn't make knee-jerk responses to that moaning. Totally different :P

I think it's fine. I should probably point out that depending on exactly how the CSS etc is set up not everyone may be seeing the same font?

In reply to deacondeacon:

To all those who are raising complaint: your names are being added to a list of dissenters. When UKC eventually becomes powerful enough you shall be questioned and imprisoned. If you repent now you may escape this fate.

This is your last warning to comply.

In reply to John2:

I had a little play around last night - these are all personal opinions - the default font for the site is "Open Sans" but Arial looks better for the thread message text, it's got slightly heavier strokes and is a little denser. The font size is 14px with a line height of 20px, it looks slightly better with a font size of 13px and line height of 18px.

One thing that creates a lot of whitespace is the use of two [br] tags for paragraphs, so after the "In reply to xxxx:" you get two [br] tags then the first paragraph. Since the body of the message is being retrieved from a database these could be replaced by enclosing the text in [p] tags and then creating a CSS rule to put a little space between the paragraphs.

In reply to John2:

If it's just fonts or background colour that you object to, you can override stylesheets in firefox (and probably other browsers). See, for example, http://superuser.com/questions/318912/how-to-override-the-css-of-a-site-in-... (or just google something like "firefox custom stylesheet"). I know several people who recognise that, despite being 'correct', their opinions on design/aesthetics are not aligned with the majority, and use a custom stylesheet for just about everything.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Much better, thanks!

In reply to deacondeacon:

Overall it gets the thumbs up from me. I access UKC a lot from my mobile and tablet and it works better for these. I also don't have any issues with the way it looks on my pc.
Well done UKC. If I spot any particular bugs I'll be sure and let you know
Dave

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

What's going on with the "Hide Sidebar" button. I liked that as I could view a thread across the whole width of the page but now can't find it. It was above the "Report Abuse" button.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
Desktop browser is Chrome. HTC One is my phone. I must admit I didn't try swiping, as the "next" icon shows on the image my instinct was to try and click it, which doesn't appear to work. Incidentally I am also using Chrome on my phone. The swiping is working nicely though.

In reply to GridNorth:


We were getting a bug on certain browsers from it so we have removed it for the time being. It will be replaced in User Options shortly.

Alan

In reply to phleppy:

I'm afraid not no

In reply to neilwiltshire:

The swipe didn't occur to me either but the first person I showed the test version to on an iPad tried to swipe it, to no avail, so it got added

I changed the slide to a fade yesterday as someone complained the slide was making them feel nauseous, the transition with the fade is the fastest it allows. Hopefully it's a bit better for you now.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'd actually be surprised if the sidebar is, ultimately, hideable. Surely it's where adverts go? Speaking purely personally I find it jarring on the right, but as I said before I've never found a way of getting text to wrap to the window if the main column is on the right.
Still, it will be good if the option is kept to hide it.

In reply to digby:


Quite easy with Flexbox and not much harder using floats though you have to have explicit widths for at least one of the content blocks.

In reply to John2:

FWIW (ie very little) I don't have a mobile device, and I prefer the new design

In reply to Bob:

If you think it's quite easy it's because I haven't explained it clearly enough. It is not quite easy. It is impossible. I have tried every conceivable combination of floats, divs, explicit widths, max widths, min widths etc etc and having the main text column on the right the text will not obey the window edge and wrap. It always slides off. Furthermore, there is, remarkably, almost no information on the subject of the relationship of text and the window edge on the web. It's as if no-one has noticed or cared!

Of course I will eat my hat if you can show me different.

In reply to tmawer:


I sometimes get this problem. Most of the time it works fine, a dropdown appears as you type, but sometimes it doesn't. In either case, clicking the magnifying glass does nothing.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Looks great to me, fresh, crisp and responsive.

Many thanks to the whole team (Paul especially?) for the amount of work that has gone into it,



Chris

In reply to digby:

If you have anything of fixed width as content (i,e, images) within the RH container then when you shrink the window down beyond that point you will get scroll bars but plain text is fine. Content queries (analogous to CSS media queries) where the content "knows" about the containing element(s) rather than just the browser window are being actively discussed.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

You must go to the same optician as Jon

In reply to Bob:

Can you show me a site where text in a right hand column wraps to the browser window edge?

In reply to digby:
At the moment no - I'm at work with my boss sitting next to me!

The browser window edge is no different with regards to text wrapping to the edge of a div or other block element so any site with a two column layout and the main body of text on the right will cause the browser to run the same text wrapping code.

Either that or I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to describe!

In reply to Bob:

We probably shouldn't turn this thread into a discussion of my web problems. So I won't say any more except by wrap I mean flow. ie when the browser window is narrowed, the text will realign, flow and not slide off the edge of the window. If you do come across a site that does this perhaps you could mail me? Thanks!

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Cheers Chris!

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

This is done: Clicking on the User button (when logged in) takes you to the profile page now. The current logged in user is also shown in the dropdown menu there.

It would be be nice to replace the User text with the profile name but some people have very long usernames (myself included) so it would mess up the menu bar. I'll try and come up with an alternative method to show the current user so you don't have to hover over the User dropdown. It's better than it was though.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
Very good and responsive, thumbs up. Although, I agree with the lightweight text issue and it's a little bright and white on my galaxy s5 (the last thing you want to hear about). Bugs first, design after.

In reply to FreshSlate:

When you say lightweight text, could you clarify a bit please?

We are getting a mixed message here. Some say it is too thin, some say it is too large. If we make it smaller, it will make it even thinner.

It is actually the Bootstrap default font and size that we have used so it is likely to be far from unique to this site. I actually pushed it up one point from what Paul had chosen since I initially found it a bit thin and small myself, however my eyesight has been going over the last few years and I find most sites a bit small on text (which I didn't use to).

It doesn't, for example, look much different to me than this - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/14/who-new-ebola-cases-world-heal... - other than the lines being a little closer together on the Guardian site.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
See my comment from 0918 this morning. The font family starts with Open Sans, this uses quite thin strokes which combined with the font size of 14px makes the text appear very washed out (for want of a better phrase). Reducing the size to 13px doesn't appreciably reduce the stroke width but increases the effective density of the text so it doesn't appear as washed out. Setting the first font to Arial which has slightly heavier strokes also reduces the washing out effect.

I think that maybe Mac and Windows might differ as well (not got a Windows machine so can't check but it's not appreciably different between Mac and Linux).

I also made the observation about using (hope the angle brackets appear) tags rather than
to create paragraphs but this may be something in Bootstrap that you can't change. You could then set the margins so that there wasn't so much space around the text.

In reply to Bob:

I very much agree, for me the text is one point too big.

In reply to James FR:

Agree. The smaller font size in the forum index would work better everywhere.

Neil

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Hi I like the new design it works much better on my phone.

I'm having trouble finding the list of all the destination articles though (one of my favorite things on here) i can only get to the new or popular ones or search for articles i already know.

In reply to JHiley:

Looks good on my tablet (Nexus 7 2013) as well.

Neil

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Here's my observation of the blank space/thin text issue.

Tesco Hudl
Android 4.2.2
Chrome 34.0.1847.114

In landscape mode, I get a fairly big, grey margin on L & R. No RHS menu/adverts. And fairly small text. Comparing the UKC (new) and UKH (old) pages side-by-side, the font on the new site is smaller, and there are no margins on UKH. If the full width of the screen were used, my earlier comments about forum icon favourites and the need for a little menu to cope with 'screen overflow' would probably be moot.

Since people had been making positive comments about the new site on mobile (smaller viewport) devices, I thought I'd try portrait mode. Lo and behold, the L&R margins vanished, and the font got bigger. Well, the font got bigger on thread pages; it seems to be the same size on the index pages.

Viewing UKH in portrait is flushed left, with a large RH margin, and small font (same size as UKC in landscape, I think).

It's almost as if the font size logic is the wrong way round; for a narrower viewport, I might choose to use a smaller font to cram more stuff in, and use a bigger font on the wider viewport, since the space is available.

I can supply screenshots if that's helpful...

For all the little niggles and teething troubles, I must say that it's still a very impressive bit of work, as UKC's codebase has always appeared to be. And the turnaround of reports to fixes is also very impressive. So congratulations, chaps; I certainly appreciate the effort that's been put in.

ps. On Firefox on my work desktop (XP SP3...) machine, I get L&R margins in landscape. I'm not going to try rotating the screen to try 'portrait', as all my desktops icons will fall to the bottom...

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Oh yes it does!! Surprisingly maybe. And, if you look at other columns on the same page, you'll see even smaller font sizes and leading. And all perfectly readable.
I don't get the feeling of wasted white space on the Guardian site, though I do feel it is cluttered. The font appears darker - is it a heavier weight?

In reply to digby:


Doesn't look different on my machine. I did notice the smaller text. For me that is too small for comfortable reading, but then my eyes aren't what they used to be.


I think this sums it up. A site either has 'white space' or 'looks cluttered'. It seems difficult to get the balance between these.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Trying on my iPad2. Ancient iOS 5.1.1. Can't tell you the version of Safari, because the Ghost of Steve Jobs doesn't think I need to know

Can't log in, because the password entry box is partially covered by an advert, and the touch region of this advert is selected in preference to the text box. So it just keeps launching copies of the advert page...

Even if I zoom in, I cannot select the password box.

Oh, and the login boxes cover the for sale/premier post forum icons, although transparently.

On the UKC home page, the entire login dialogue is obscured by an advert. Look like a foreground control issue with the login dialogue pop-up.

I managed to guess what the login icon was...

In reply to hairyRob:

Hiya, found a small bug in the login script that I think was causing the problem here. Should be good now

In reply to captain paranoia:


Aha! 'Login' has now appeared...

In reply to deacondeacon:

All looks good to me, my only slight issue is with having to learn the icons for the forums (or hover over each)

In reply to deacondeacon:

Grades are back in my logbook list! Thanks Paul, that was quick work. Does this mean we might get OP names in the thread list too?

In reply to Hooo:

OP names are shown if your screen is big enough, although I find that after a very small number of replies they become redundant. I'd rather know the username of the last person to post; then if there was only one reply since I last looked and it was from one of a few regular posters I wouldn't waste my time reading it.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Paul,

On my iPad in Safari, there's a rogue forward slash before thread titles, when viewed from a thread page. But maybe it's intentional.

Nice work having to figure out all that bespoke code and hack it into shape. Looks great.

In reply to Jonny2vests:

The forward slash on Firefox 31.1 on OpenSuse Linux as well.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:


I don't think it's a mixed message. The font used is light weight (thin) and fairly spread out. The Guardian font is slightly heavier (thicker) and more compact, and I find easier for my aging eyes to read (even at a smaller size). If you make the UKC font larger by zooming in it becomes even more spread out. Readability is variable depending on what monitor I'm using - great on tablet and phone, less so (to different degrees) on laptop and desktop monitors, where it loses contrast.

This is exacerbated where the font is pale blue, rather than black, and there is even less contrast eg on the forum listings

I think you need a slightly heavier font, and perhaps closer spacing, at least for screens which aren't HD. Since it can apparently detect screen size and display accordingly, could it use different fonts for mobile devices and other computers?

Overall I think you've done a great job with the upgrade, however this is more than a purely aesthetic criticism, it does make it more difficult to read on the computers I use most often.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

I can not see the icons clearly as they are too big? just a corner visible. 22" screen

Also i just have "Lo" where Logbook? should be.

Thanks

In reply to Jonny2vests:
Cheers Jon! It's not that bad once you're used to it.

It was an attempt at a breadcrumb. You can click on the forum icon to go to the thread list. Making it smaller made it more obvious it was a breadcrumb but also made it less legible. It'll more than likely get a tweak.

In reply to Jonny2vests:

I'm pretty sure the / is intentional; I think it's meant to signify <forumname>/<threadname>

Whether it's necessary is more moot. I don't really notice it.

As for the issue of screen layout selection vs viewport width, it's interesting that my Hudl (with a screen of 1440x900 pixels) seems to be treated as a 'narrow viewport' (so thread OPs aren't shown in the listings, and no RH sidebar), but my work monitor (set to 1280*768 pixels), is treated as a 'wide viewport', with OPs and RH sidebar shown. A lot of the Hudl's available viewport is wasted by wide grey margins. That could be showing adverts...

In reply to captain paranoia:

That's been tweaked to show the OP in tablet portrait.

In reply to deacondeacon:

UKC really need to put their hands in their pocket and invest in their website... as a business that bases itself and its guidebooks on crowd-sourced data and information, they are bound to offer a service to users... the site just doesn't cut it at the moment and hastily bunging it all into a responsive framework has only really solved a couple of issues... in my opinion not really affecting the user experience, or mobile user experience much in a positive way.

In reply to Blake:

And? Go on.

(I've no connection with UKC other than one over http)

In reply to deacondeacon:

I've just realized that you dont seem to be able to upload a crag shot to a specific route anymore.You just have to add to the crag,this is a retrograde step IMO.

In reply to Blake:


I'm sure you'll be listened to if you have some good ideas or requests for what you'd like to see.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I would personally rebuild it and enjoy it very much - for a price, let's not forget that this is a business, not a charity.

In reply to deepstar:

I'll look into that, it wasn't intentional.

In reply to Blake:

Can you show us any examples of sites that you think have a good UI - ones from a similar sized business, or maybe ones you have designed yourself?

Alan

In reply to Blake:


Your comments are both curious and grand. The UKC team have spent months rebuilding the UI to work easily on a wide range of different devices (tablets, phones, etc, as well as computers), and you have nothing helpful to say. To bounce your appallingly vague and trendy idiom back in your face, your comments don't "cut it". (Needs the double quotes, it's so daft.)

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
It's very very hard to use the new site on my ipad 2 which is what I use to view it 99% of the time. Can't access the drop down menus to get into anything I want to look at as they disappear under adverts. Quite frustrating.

In reply to Skyfall:

Sent you an email about this.

In reply to deacondeacon:
I noticed today the names of posters are back. They have been missing on my lap top

In reply to petegunn:

Hi Pete, can you submit a bug report here please? http://www.ukclimbing.com/general/email.html#fault

Just reference this post - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=600174&v=1#x7905433

Thanks.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:


As many have already pointed out, too large and too thin aren't mutually exclusive. When I say lightweight, I do mean the weight of the text, how heavy the strokes of the font are. It's basically a font thing, exaggerated by how much space there is between lines.

Anyway, to get away from the font, (it's like the icons all over again). I agree with those who say it's less effifcient to have to go through Navigation > Forum in landscape mode on a mobile device. There is space for it.

I have to agree with the below:


On firefox (though who uses that anymore), on some of the adverts at the top(I.E Dolomites), theres's window scrolling options horizontal and vertical. They don't work, and if they were absent the advert would fit full size anyway. No such problem in chrome.

Just a bit too much light grey at the sides on the PC. Looking at other websites, some seem to space out, "New/Updated Topics only" and "Posted By" Etc. a bit more.

Which is then closed up on portable devices. Not sure which one I prefer.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Gordon... i've read and enjoyed several of your books and your are in my opinion an excellent photographer.

It seems a bit rash for you to dive in so defensively at my professional first impression of the 'redesign' of ukc (apologies at the quotes - again).

Rather than respond in a catty, public 'tit for tat', If you would like a chat on a personal basis, please feel free to contact me personally on my email - me@blake.ws.

I appreciate that forum comments can come across as emotionless and clinical when read in retrospect.

All the best

Blake

In reply to Blake:

This is a thread in which people are discussing the new-look UKC, and letting Alan know, publicly, where they are having problems or what they don't like. So of course I won't chat to you in private about it. I've no idea why you are being so mysterious about it, and not letting anyone here know what you think is wrong with it, either generally or in detail.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'm well aware of the thread.

All I'm saying, Gordan is that I'm not getting involved in a free web consultation. For the free (positive) criticisms I have given your works on social media and amazon, I didn't ask you for a personal writers skills class...

Do you see my point?

In reply to Blake:


Are you prepared to answer my question above?

Alan

In reply to FreshSlate:


That'll be a HTML5 advert. What version of Firefox are you on? Latest is 33.

In reply to Blake:




No.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

No.

I think he wants UKC to pay him lots of money...

In reply to FactorXXX:

To be honest no I don't... I'm currently sitting at my desk designing and building UI's, thinking about going climbing...

I'm just saying that I don't think UKC invest enough in their website and I don't want to get involved in a free web audit of UKC, nor do I want to get involved in a boring forum chat about websites.

It's a great body of crowd sourced images and data, which has been accumulated over a number of years, which has a lot of potential... if you've got a problem with what I said, then delete it, or if you want a (brief) civilised discussion about it, my email is posted above.

That's it really - it wasn't intended to be as incendiary as Gordon has taken it, but i appreciate that climbers are a precious group.

In reply to Blake:

No-one is doubting your credentials Blake, I think the problem is that you have made some very general, fairly damming statements about the site without really qualifying any of them. The one simple question I posed asking for what you think is an example of a comparable site you think has a good UI, you haven't answered yet. I think this answer might give us some context to see where you are coming from with your criticism.

Alan

In reply to Blake:

What a weird attitude to have.
There appears to be many people on here, web designers among them, who are quite willing to give feedback - both positive and negative.
All you've done is criticise, but not actually give any inkling on how you would improve it.
If by 'precious', you mean that we are a bit of an enclosed community, willing to give advice willingly and free of charge to improve UKC, then yes we are and all the better for it.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


Hi Paul, thanks for the reply, and for addressing the OP in landscape (not portrait, very sensibly). Whilst I'm happy not to see adverts on my tablet ( ), I note that my Hudl has the pixels to display more information than my desktop, and yet it's only on the desktop that I see the RH sidebar etc. It looks like your logic is based on device type, not viewport dimensions. I think I was trying to suggest that viewport pixel dimensions might be a better way of choosing the response. I have no experience of the design of 'responsive websites'...

My earlier observations still stand; you may have missed them, as I addressed them to the thread, and not you. Those points are:

- portrait font is larger than landscape font
- landscape view wastes a lot of screen space with wide grey L & R sidebars.

These two observations seem contradictory; given the smaller font in landscape, we could use that wasted space to allow a larger font, or to display the RH sidebar/adverts. Or, given a smaller font in portrait, we could fit more information within the available width. It strikes me that the font size logic is the wrong way round.

Personally, I would prefer to see the full width of the viewport used, with no grey sidebars, to allow the use of a larger font, and to allow the header banner section to display all forum icons, as per the desktop behaviour. I'd prefer the larger font in both landscape and portrait orientations, using all available viewport pixels.

I made other comments about the forum icon bar, a request for an 'ignore user' function, and the iPad hidden menus issue.

I also made some complimentary comments...

In reply to Blake:


I'd probably stop posting on this thread then.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


Still no photo comment email.

In reply to captain paranoia:

This looks like it's only an issue with old versions of iOS Safari that hasn't been updated by the iOS 7 or 8 upgrade. Doing that should hopefully fix the other issues for you. I'll look into the issues you've raised though.

PS. You should see the OP in both portrait and landscape on the thread list on the iPad? It does on mine.

In reply to Removed User:

I probs won't mate to be honest... I've made my comments at a level I'm drawing a line at.

In reply to Blake:


That's a bit rich coming from mister "my elite UI design skills are too valuable for me to even tell you what I don't like about your site".

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Thanks Paul. Yes, I spotted the iPad solution on one of the other threads. I'll try the iPad orientations tonight.

I confess that the iPad2 hasn't been used much since I got the Hudl, as I prefer to be free from the control freakery of the Ghost of Steve Jobs; Android (mostly) treats me as a computer-literate adult, rather than a 3-yr-old who likes shiny toys that flash and beep, but who is kept away from anything 'dangerous' by Nanny. But, having finally connected myself to the grid, I might start using it as a larger format, armchair browser at home.

In reply to jon:

I'll try and get this sorted tomorrow. I've been really busy...

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


I know, I'm really sorry, that's why I hesitated to mention it! Your doing a great job.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Ouch.

In reply to Blake:


Passive aggressive much?

In reply to deacondeacon:

The site is a huge improvement both on desktop and particularly on mobile devices. For those uncomfortable with the font size, this can be individually tailored using browser settings.

Andrew.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

It is ok now and I can view all the icons and drop boxes

I did send the report but as it works now no action is required

Thanks very much

Pete

In reply to petegunn:

I take it you upgraded from Firefox version 3 to version 33? lol

It should keep itself updated in the background now like Chrome does.

In reply to jon:

Should work now, I've commented on a few of your photos... nice gallery!

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Succumbed to the inevitable, so now running iOS 8.0.2 on the iPad2...

Home page menus working nicely. I was able to log in...

Fonts same size in portrait and landscape.

L&R landscape margins are much smaller than on the Hudl. Forums icon strip shows all icons, so drop menu not needed, but does appear in portrait.

Does this suggest you're not detecting the Hudl's viewport dimensions correctly?

In reply to captain paranoia:




Awesome!


It looks that way, I don't suppose there's an update available for your Chrome on Android? 38 is the latest version for desktop.

In reply to deacondeacon:





Does anyone else have a problem with the drop down boxes hiding behind the adverts?

In reply to deacondeacon:

Just off on climbing trip, iPad and laptop packed away, checked ukc on my iPhone for first time for ages (because it was very fiddly before) - and Wow! I see the reason for the site upgrade. Awesome! Good work!

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

I like the embedded YouTube and Vimeo videos, but if you specify a certain start time in the link it gets chopped off, so the video just starts at the beginning.

For example, I tried to post youtu.be/CH8zKm5N048?t=2m48s but the "?t=2m48s" got removed automatically.

In reply to farmer:


Yes but only on my iPad. Laptop is fine.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Works a treat Paul. Thanks.

In reply to farmer:
You need to update your iOS I'm afraid. Your version of Safari is too old - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=600174&v=1#x7906660

In reply to jon:

As above message for you on the iPad.

In reply to James FR:

I'll add that the the TODO list cheers.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:


There is, but recent upgrades have been universally panned in reviews, and I dropped back to the build that came with the Hudl update, as I experienced major issues with later versions.

Just tried it on Firefox on the Hudl, and that gives the same wide margins in landscape. And the same font change in portrait; i.e. it doesn't look like it's browser-specific.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I said nothing about my 'my elite UI design skills'... that's pretty juvenile of you to say tbh and not worth a detailed response

In reply to deacondeacon:

I seem to be getting an odd message on the RHS of this page: TODO: Ticklist sidebar content

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=318

Also, if I click on "my ticklists" from the main homepage I get to a dead end with the message:

h t t p ://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlist.html

Show Wishlist
Error: no such user profile.

Return to main Logbooks page

In reply to JamieSparkes:

Carrying on from what Jamie says: -

If I click on the 'Contributed by: <a user name>' on a ticklist page , it returns me to my own profile.

In reply to Blake:


Your original comment said you didn't think much of the improvements:

<quote>
the site just doesn't cut it at the moment and hastily bunging it all into a responsive framework has only really solved a couple of issues... in my opinion not really affecting the user experience, or mobile user experience much in a positive way.
</quote>

When various people asked you for some more constructive feedback on how it might be made better, you came back with:

<quote>
I would personally rebuild it and enjoy it very much - for a price, let's not forget that this is a business, not a charity.
</quote>

You've made references to your professional opinion, and the websites you're designing. All of which imply that you could do a better job. Which isn't far from saying that you have 'elite UI design skills'.

If you're not prepared to offer any constructive advice, or point out what you think is wrong and could be improved, then you'd probably be better off not posting. I don't recall reading your posts before, but you're rapidly gaining a reputation in my eyes. And it's not a good reputation. Not that you'll be bothered by my opinion, of course.

Which reminds me of my earlier request: can we have an 'ignore' button, please...?

In reply to captain paranoia:
If you want to make 2 + 2 = 5 from my comments, I won't lose any sleep over it.

All of my responses since yesterday have been dignified retorts at rude remarks from people.

Cheers
Blake

In reply to Blake:

As I requested earlier (but you chose to ignore) how about pointing out something that *you* think is wrong. Preferably how something works (or doesn't) rather than how it looks.

In reply to Blake:

All of my responses since yesterday have been dignified retorts at rude remarks from people.

That's because us climbers are "Precious"...

In reply to FactorXXX:

haha... I'm a precious climber myself and I love moaning about ethics and bolts.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Back to the iPad, where all methods of getting to 'My Topics' take me to 'My Forums':

Home page tab press
Home page tab hold/'open in new tab'
Home page Forums menu

I just got logged out unexpectedly, as well. Not sure why, but I was trying to hit 'reply' to this post, but the button wasn't responding. Had to kill the tab and start again.

In reply to captain paranoia:



I expect these two things are connected. If you are logged out then there is no My Topics so it would default to My Forums.

It was probably that you hadn't managed to log in properly. Sometimes it can get stalled through no fault of the user. You may get a screen that looks like you are logged on, but this is just a cache memory and you are in fact not logged on.

I have been using an iPad running iOS 8 all week and not had any problems with it. I have to log on and off quite a lot as well for various reasons and it seems to work fine.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Ah, that's possible; the page hadn't refreshed* to show me as logged out, as I could still see the 'My Topics' options. But the code behind it thought I was logged out.

It just logged me out again.

* which is odd, because one of the things I find annoying about modern browsers is their insistence on continuously refreshing automatically, even if I change tab for a couple of seconds. And on some websites, refresh was the text entry box... Refresh the page when I tell you to... One reason why I've not got the latest Chrome, as they've hidden the refresh button.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

The errant forward slash has reappeared before thread titles

So for example the title of this thread is: "/ The new UKC thread"

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Another bug report:
From a video page (e.g. http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=2286 ), the "Latest Videos" link (directly above the video: "Videos / Latest Videos & Sport Climbing") currently points to latest photos

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

It logged me off iPad and Hudl access (yes, I did tick 'remember me').

I logged back in on the iPad, and I seemed to be logged in; I could read The Pub threads, and 'User' showed my ID, and the 'My Topics' tab appeared. But I can't get to 'My Topics'...

So I tried to reply to you, but the submit button didn't respond. So I closed the tab, re-opened the thread and tried again. This time, to save typing, I tried to copy the text. But each time I selected the text, and got the context edit menu, the menu vanished before I could select one of the options. This menu works fine in other websites and apps.

So, this is hopefully posted from my Hudl...

In reply to deacondeacon:
I am currently finding that on my iPad if I try and select (say) logbooks and then an item from that drop down menu, it will only select the sub forum from the icon that is below the semi-transparent drop down menu, if that makes sense.

So for example, click on logbooks and then try and select my logbook; I am only able to select the cycling forum as the dropdown 'layer' doesn't appear to be recognised.

In reply to Oli:

Oli, see earlier posts; looks like it's a Safari problem. I upgrade to iOS8.0.2, and it fixed the menu problem.
Not problem a free on the iPad yet, though...

In reply to captain paranoia:

Cheers. Probably doesn't help that I'm still on a much older iOS then...

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
Continued saga on my iPad2...

Having upgraded to iOS8.0.2, I'm still having trouble with the new site. I can't get to My Topics, via any means, even though I can read The Pub threads. I get logged out on a regular basis, even though I tick 'remember me'.

So I cleared Safari's history, and logged in again. this time, I could see My Topics, so I went to post a success message here.

I entered the message and pressed Submit. Nothing happened. No responses to Submit at all. So I tried to copy the text to try in a new tab. nope; couldn't select the text, or add to it. I used the iPad home button to bring up the task selector, and selected Safari. It was blurry; I conclude Safari had crashed and wasn't re-drawing the screen. I tired the task switcher again, and this woke up Safari, and it refreshed the screen, only I was logged out.

So I've installed Chrome. Let's see if I can submit under Chrome...

[edit] yes, I can.

The thing I love about Apple products is that 'they just work'. My ar*e. As for the moron at Apple who thought single-pixel width strokes for icons was a good accessibility idea, words escape me.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Well usually I'll grumble about change and find reasons not to like new layouts...but I'm quite impressed by this. Very crisp, very 'clean'

In reply to Paul/Alan:

When I click on 'list all 2 ticklists' on my profile, it goes straight to 'my wishlist'.

In reply to jon:

Sorted that.

In reply to captain paranoia:

I can replicate the My Topics bug on iPad Safari. I'll try and get it fixed ASAP.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Oops!

That's sorted.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Thanks Paul. Chrome seems to be working okay, with the odd restart...

The logout problem seems to have settled down; haven't been logged out from any access point for a few days now. I'll continue to monitor.

One new issue I've noticed is that, on some browsers (Android Chrome, for instance), clicking on the forum icons goes directly to that forum. On other browsers (iPad Chrome), it merely 'selects' the icon, with the text identifier. It needs a second click to actually go to the forum.

I wonder if it's the different way in which 'mouse mimic' works between the two platforms; on a PC, sweeping the mouse of the icons reveals their titles. Maybe the iPad uses the first touch as 'mouse sweep' and the second as 'mouse click'. But Android misses out the 'mouse sweep' mimic.

Not exactly a critical problem...

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Thanks Paul.

In reply to deacondeacon: This discussion has completely lost me, far too technical. The photos in my gallery look awful on my IPad, pokey shrunken and wiped out by the contrast with the white background and how you could vote on an image displayed like that defeats me. Is it possible to enlarge the images to full screen as the appeared before this change? Not sure if I can be bothered to put any shots on the site when they are dispayed like this.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Just worked it out but I still don't like it. It seems to relegate the photo and promote the infantile voting system. It would be better to abolish the stars and rating altogether.