UKC

Very good new document from the UIAA with some interesting bits:

"Mescaline and tetrahydrocannabiol (THC) has been used for several ex- treme big-wall climbs. Their use in Yosemite is documented by Steve Roper (66). Route names like “Mescalito” clearly indicate the circumstances of the first ascent."

"...account of the grief reaction of the British team members on Nanda Devi in 1936 when the tea container was dropped and lost may reflect on this drug dependency."

"...Alcohol is used, abused and enjoyed by mountaineers throughout the world.... It can be a very social drink and in the form of whisky is one of the few ways that the true spirit of the mountains can be obtained in a bottle."

"There is no doubt that oxygen is a drug, available only on prescription in many countries and that it increases performance at altitude."

http://www.theuiaa.org/upload_area/Medicine/Advice-and-Recommendations/No22...

In reply to Damo: Interesting reading.

In reply to Damo:

I, and many older climbers, would be lost without Naproxwn or ibuprofen......have a sneaky look in the next climbing wall you visit's bin. and you will see how prevalent drug use in climbing is!

In reply to Damo:
Interesting read, thanks!

Strangely the paper seems to be missing NSAIDs other than Ibuprofen and Aspirin, which are probably the most commonly used class of climbing drugs (THC excluded): Just go to any guide room in a Swiss mountain hut and see the handfuls of Diclofenac pills many of the older guides pop for breakfast, together with their CS/HS placebos...

I also have some Diclofenac in my emergency kit to get my knees going again if required, works wonders to suppress overload induced inflammation.

CB

In reply to cb294:

I climb on sprouts.

In reply to Damo:

Yebbut...Britain stops if the tea runs out, not just the climbing!

Neil

In reply to Damo:

I remember having a chat with David Hildebrandt ( one of the authors of this document ) about the ethics of what are effectively performance enhancing drugs in high altitude mountaineering. Parents regularly ask for their children who accompany them on high altitude expeditions such as Everest to be prescribed Diamox or Dexamethasone. Would they feel the same about using THG at a school sports day?

In reply to planetmarshall:

My personal opinion is that Dex should only be used in an emergency, not prophylactically, and is therefore more like having a bandage for when your son puts a javelin through his foot.

In reply to planetmarshall:


Whereas Diamox, otoh, I have taken prophylactically, which is how it used to be more commonly prescribed, over a decade ago. But that was for a specific and pretty much unavoidable circumstance (flying into LaPaz at 4000m) and for that I think it's OK. But just taken as a precaution, or with views to performance-enhancement, I think it's of negligible overall benefit, from my experience. If you're relying on Diamox to get you up a hill there are other issues you should be looking at - time, schedule, fitness, hydration etc. As a performance enhancer, I think comparing Diamox with bottled O2 is like comparing an espresso with EPO.

As emergency treatment, I've never used it or experienced it, so I really can't say. If the established knowledge says it works then by all means let it be used in emergencies, with descent, Dex and anything else needed to save a life.

In reply to Damo:
As I understand from the scant literature, and the opinion of the guy who first discovered the efficiacy of Dex for treating HACE using it prophylactically is not actually very effective, but does decrease or destroy the efficiency of using it as a last resort "magic bullet" to stabilise HACE and allow climbers to be evacuated to lower altitude whilst they can still move under their own steam (albeit aided).
Use as a performance enhancer in fact would seem to expose people to greater risk if if they get into difficulty.

Diamox on the other hand is relatively effective, barring increasing demand for water and placing increased demands on the renal system... It's fairly safe, but young person or anyone with vulnerable kidneys would again be putting themselves at increased risk; Equally the effects would need to be carefully weighed for fast and light expeditions, or long approaches through arid areas, where it could increase the risk of dehydration.

It's down to individual Doctors, but I would hope most would seek information from the patient and advice from those experienced in mountain medicine before prescribing anything.

EDIT: Reading that article Dex and Diamox could actually have serious drug interactions taken together... I might just put a pin in that for later reading.

In reply to tmawer:


It gets a mention in the full paper

"It is also known that ibuprofen is used to mask soft tissue pain in endurance mountain marathon runners and in sport climbers."

In reply to Carolyn:

NSAIDs are a no-go if you've wrecked your stomach, though :-/

In reply to Damo:

I once witnessed a party of three climbing Dream of White Horses who were all smoking dope and drinking Special Brew. They were wearing crusty style parkas and carrying the tins in their pockets and stopping mid pitch to take a few swigs.
It certainly wasn't performance enhancing though, they took ages, wandering around trying to find gear placements and belays even when other people told them exactly were they were. They generally made a real nuisance of themselves, getting in everyone else's way and tangling their ropes up with others and nearly got into a fight with 2 Scottish blokes climbing Zeus.

In reply to Damo:

"There is no doubt that oxygen is a drug, available only on prescription in many countries and that it increases performance at altitude."

That is an absolute effing classic of a quote. I just KNEW I'd been cheating all my life! Oxygen junky me.....

In reply to Damo:

In the mini bus en-route to Northumbria with uni climbing club.

Driver turns round to freshers, 'Does any body know how to skin-up?'

My mate says, 'I do'

Driver reaches into breast pocket and takes out a bundle and offers it to my mate.

'It's ok, I have a big bag of my own' says my mate, 'I'll skin one up.'

We then rolled on down the road, up to the crag, back to the hut, up to the crag again and then back home for an Indian.

In reply to Damo:

THC on climbing????? Come on....you are all bullshiting me....

In reply to Damo:

A further piece on the same original document: http://blogs.dw.de/adventuresports/2014/10/20/well-under-drugs-is-half-way-...

"...on Everest spring 2012, at least two thirds of climbers we contacted were prescribed several performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) and had intent to use them not for rescue, but to increase their chances of summit success."

"..the death rates of mountains above 8500 meters were significantly lower for climbers who use supplemental oxygen. “My opinion is: Those who need it, do not belong up there”, says Kuepper. “By definition ‘method that artificially enhances the performance’, it’s doping, because it changes an 8000er to a high 6000er.”

"..on Kilimanjaro: 80 percent of the summit aspirants used Diamox or Dexamethasone."

In reply to Baron Weasel:
The spaniards love hash when climbing!

In reply to Damo:

Hmm, some things are better saved for after the climbing, I think.

In reply to Damo:

Once went for a wander to clear up a bit of a bad mood. Ended up halfway up a severe at trowbarow in big boots...a whole county, 3 train beers and a sneaky joint too late. Needless to say, won't be doing that again!
i forgot about the bad mood though, fear of death will do that.