UKC

Hi

Which soft shell jacket would people recommend for Scottish winter use? I like mixed climbing and thrutching up chimneys, so quite a tough one would be good.

Thanks!

In reply to LakesWinter:

Buffalo? Not a dictionary definition softshell but they're pretty tough.

In reply to Blackmud:

Buffalo doesn't really fit with my other gear, although I do think they're a great bit of kit.

In reply to LakesWinter:

Arcteryx Alpha comp. Amazing!

In reply to Adam Lincoln:


Why exactly? For the UK as you're likely to want a hard shell in addition to it, it seems a hugely expensive and somewhat fragile option. http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6216

In reply to LakesWinter:

I like the berghaus Valparola Softshell, it covers me for all year use! Long sleeves with thumb loops so perfect for reaching distant holds. It isn't very well insulated at all but you just compliment it with a decent fleece, and it has pit zips so you will never over heat. A main zip that goes from both ways so doesn't get in the way of a harness, and an under helmet hood!
Its pretty good in rain, but for winter I would pack a hardshell too!
But its a vital part of my layering system!

Glenn

In reply to Merry:

You were going well until you said under-helmet hood. Hate those with a passion!!

Most popular seems to be Arcteryx Gamma MX but I believe if it's not going to be waterproof it might as well be more breathable, so I use a Montane Alpine Stretch, which has the virtue of being exceptionally good value too.

To the OP: Just decide whether you want a membrane (like Windstopper) for water resistance or non-membrane for breathability, fleecy-lined for wearing over a base layer, or unlined for wearing over a fleece or insulated vest and see what's on offer.

In reply to BnB:

Thanks for all the info so far, I'll look at the Montane one; I tried some of the Rab ones on but they rode up too much for my liking when reaching up.

In reply to LakesWinter:

I was in Cotswold last month killing time and I tried on a softshell from Mountain Equipment. I cannot remember the name but it is worth seeking out if you get time, as the fabric appears very 'tough' and the fit was trim. It may be the "Vulcan" or "Mission" one, according to their site. I haven't had luck with the softer, stretchy type softshells in terms of durability - they all pill after a few months - so perhaps they are finally respecting the "shell" part of the epithet.

In reply to LakesWinter:
If you're a medium, I'm selling a Patagonia Northwall soft shell, as new. Drop me a line if you're interested.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

I would consider the new version a complete waste of time. Even for continental ice. It's just too flimsy.

In reply to LakesWinter:

I like a beefy but uninsulated softshell (had a Patagonia Dimension for a decade). I replaced it with a Marmot Nabu this winter and it's brilliant. Breathability is excellent and I'd never bother carrying a waterproof with it. Fabric feels robust too. I tested a few out last winter and this was the best of the bunch by far. Though it helps that Marmot gear seems to fit me perfectly.

In reply to LakesWinter:
My advice would be to go for a close fitting then fleece hoody (under helmet) under a thin uninsulated shell with an over helmet hood. FWIW I prefer a nonmembrane shell, as they breathe and dry out quicker (and tend to be tougher and cheaper) but I haven't tried the latest generation of waterproof sofshells - neoshell etc.

In reply to TobyA:
Never had a problem with my atom sv underneath. Patagonia r1 hoody. Perfect layering system for me. Then on belays throw on my black diamond belay stance parka. A £850 system, but I've never been cold or wet.

In reply to Tony Naylor:

Sadly I am a bit bigger than that but thanks for the offer.

In reply to LakesWinter:

I use an Arcteryx gamma lt hoody. It's not too expensive for Arcteryx and it's bloody bombproof! I have climbed on grit and in the mountains and it still looks brand new. Very breathable and comfortable to wear.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Do you not take a hardshell at all with it? Having got a bit soggy in mine while ice climbing in the drizzle in Finnish forests (i.e. very low exposure environment, not wind and not normally more that 10 minutes back to the car) I thought that I'd be a bit scared to have it as my only shell if there was a possibility that you'd be wearing it sleet than rain for some time while say walking off the top of the Ben or similar. Then again in my yoof, I used to romp around the winter highlands in just my Buffalo 3 piece (200 quid system including legs! so I suppose its not so different.

In reply to GrendeI:


In what way flimsy? The thrutched around in my one for testing a bit with no great issues, hooked tools over my shoulders loads etc etc - it's light but not flimsy I reckon.

In reply to TobyA:

I suppose there's a 'spectrum of flimsy'?

You might have hooked tools over shoulders okay, but possibly compared to other soft shell fabrics he's experienced, it isn't as robust as those?

You're both wrong/right. ()

In reply to LakesWinter: I got a Patagonia Knifeblade at a decent price as a replacement for an Ascensionist (which was also good). It's nice fitting with decent hood and was fine walking in showery rain in Scotland last month. Think the material is Polartec Powershield Pro seems like it'll be hard wearing.

But if I think it's going to rain in Scotland when I'm going winter climbing I normally just wear a hardshell.

Col.

In reply to Col Kingshott:
I've been thinking there might be a mental barrier to some degree, when it comes to wearing a soft shell in the rain. I don't winter climb, but I've a Haglofs uninsulated stretchy soft shell as well as an On-One angora wool lined fleece, and I've been quite surprised by how dry I stay in the rain if I wear them both. Which seems to be ideal when it comes to warmth and breathability because neither of them keep out the wind much, but when combined hardly any air can be blown through. Water makes it's way into the clothing, but it doesn't get through to my skin.

It could be something worth experimenting with in a situation which isn't winter climbing, so some gear can be left at home or in the car.

In reply to Col Kingshott:

A cag in a bag style waterproof could be all that's need to go over a decent soft shell, perhaps with under arm vents added at home?

It might be lighter than a more heavy duty hardshell...

In reply to TobyA:


Why, the Alpha comp is gore?

In reply to LakesWinter:

Recently bought a Marmot Nabu in knockdown sale price, it looks good and robust, though I've not tried it yet. I've got a Marmot Genesis for sale if you are interested?

In reply to Adam Lincoln:


Except the bits that aren't.

In reply to Shearwater:


The bits that count are though.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Like the other chap says, obviously only the bits that are Gore are waterproof. I found that the softshell bits aren't very water resistant which is fine a lot of the time, but I would have thought in British mountains with driving rain or sleet you'd get pretty wet and cold on the chest area. I did go running and ice climbing in mine in rain and it was OK, but I'd still be a bit nervous about not having some sort waterproof if I was going on all day in the UK in it. I suppose what you wear under it will make a big difference too though.

In reply to Timmd:

Indeed, I have a pattagucci torrentshell smock which packs down to smaller than an OS map, works as well as a full featured shell at keeping me dry and acts as a backup to my Buffalo/Dachstein... No need for a full on shell at all, though it barely sees any use anyway.

In reply to LakesWinter:

Try the decathlon options Amazing value, paramo ? my friend rates his s regatta.

In reply to alasdair19:

Cool ill have a look thanks

In reply to KellyKettle:

I've remembered that mountain waterproofs offer more thermal protection against the wind than lighter weight ones, having gone for a cycle in the wind today.

When out in the awesome snow in 2010/2011 in the Lake District I needed a bit more insulation under my Paclite waterproof than I would my Goretex XCR, I think.

In reply to BnB:

Tbh it would probably go over a helmet too, but I'm sure its designed to go under, which is fine with me as the only time I wear the softshell and a helmet together is during winter climbing, and its no hardship putting the hood up first!
However my waterproof hardshells have over helmet hoods!

In reply to Merry:

Yuk. Itchy

In reply to BnB:

Oh no, its lovely! I normally have a thin fleecy beenie on too!

In reply to Merry:

I bought an ME Eclipse in the summer sales so I'm going to have to bite the under-helmet bullet this winter. I promise to give it a fair crack.