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After repeating a couple of bold gritstone routes in the highball fashion this weekend, I've written a short blog about what was (for me) a relatively new experience. Check it out, let me know what you think!
http://atouchofgnar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/head-games-gritstone-highballing...
http://atouchofgnar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/head-games-gritstone-highballing...
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In reply to MischaHY:
Nice write-up Mischa ( I was one of the guys doing routes next to you on the pinnacle). Climbing is such a strange hobby isn't it? One day you can be psyched to try scary bold routes above pads and then the next week, enjoy the purity of committing to similar routes sans pads.
Sometimes (to me) it can feel like a tainted ascent but I never know until afterwards.
There are definitely routes that I save until I'm good enough to try ground up without pads, then others that I'd happily Boulder out with no intention to ever solo/lead.
Nice write-up Mischa ( I was one of the guys doing routes next to you on the pinnacle). Climbing is such a strange hobby isn't it? One day you can be psyched to try scary bold routes above pads and then the next week, enjoy the purity of committing to similar routes sans pads.
Sometimes (to me) it can feel like a tainted ascent but I never know until afterwards.
There are definitely routes that I save until I'm good enough to try ground up without pads, then others that I'd happily Boulder out with no intention to ever solo/lead.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
Ha, yep! It worked really well though with lots of people getting stuff done
Ha, yep! It worked really well though with lots of people getting stuff done
In reply to MischaHY:
Would it make much difference to the actual danger if you had, say, twenty pads down?
Would it make much difference to the actual danger if you had, say, twenty pads down?
In reply to MischaHY:
Nice blog, and photos, I enjoyed it, thanks.
> ...Check it out, let me know what you think!
Nice blog, and photos, I enjoyed it, thanks.
In reply to MischaHY:
I love this picture:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vZJP8AdnPAs/VH3J0BNeEEI/AAAAAAAAA-g/5HMC9U3JA70/s...
When I see photos like this though, I do wonder what the pioneers who first did this route would make of it, given that they would probably have only left a beer towel below for psychological support!
I love this picture:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vZJP8AdnPAs/VH3J0BNeEEI/AAAAAAAAA-g/5HMC9U3JA70/s...
When I see photos like this though, I do wonder what the pioneers who first did this route would make of it, given that they would probably have only left a beer towel below for psychological support!
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In reply to MischaHY:
Good blog post and the fact that you describe the route with a font grade rather than an E grade makes any such ascents perfectly valid as highball boulder problems. Mats do make a tremendous difference and the E grades are only valid for ground up ascents without mats.
Many years ago, long before mats existed, a young and enterprising Johnney Dawes dragged a mattress up below Nosferatu at Burbage and climbed the route. The ascent was dismissed by his peers because the route simply didn't require E5 commitment with a mattress at the bottom. So it's interesting to see how things have progressed since then.
Good blog post and the fact that you describe the route with a font grade rather than an E grade makes any such ascents perfectly valid as highball boulder problems. Mats do make a tremendous difference and the E grades are only valid for ground up ascents without mats.
Many years ago, long before mats existed, a young and enterprising Johnney Dawes dragged a mattress up below Nosferatu at Burbage and climbed the route. The ascent was dismissed by his peers because the route simply didn't require E5 commitment with a mattress at the bottom. So it's interesting to see how things have progressed since then.
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In reply to ByEek:
I don't know, but I'm glad he chipped it.
> When I see photos like this though, I do wonder what the pioneers who first did this route would make of it, given that they would probably have only left a beer towel below for psychological support!
I don't know, but I'm glad he chipped it.
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In reply to stp:
Exactly - maybe in the future I'll find myself up there without mats, but for right now it felt like a great way to climb the route - which is what it is all about
Exactly - maybe in the future I'll find myself up there without mats, but for right now it felt like a great way to climb the route - which is what it is all about
In reply to Goucho:
It's amazing, especially the range of colours. I bet they'd even do one with flowers on if you asked nicely
It's amazing, especially the range of colours. I bet they'd even do one with flowers on if you asked nicely
In reply to stp:
If I remember correctly, Tom Proctor put a mattress below Green Death but that may have been for the TV repeat rather than the 1st ascent.
I counted 14 in the ORYM photo but there may be some more hidden underneath.
As long as nobody thinks they've soloed ORYM as an E4 then there's not really any problem, and even if they do the problem is only that they might think they can solo (any) E4 without mats.
I think the OP gets it right in his blog, he had a great day and described what he did.
Nice blog entry.
If I remember correctly, Tom Proctor put a mattress below Green Death but that may have been for the TV repeat rather than the 1st ascent.
I counted 14 in the ORYM photo but there may be some more hidden underneath.
As long as nobody thinks they've soloed ORYM as an E4 then there's not really any problem, and even if they do the problem is only that they might think they can solo (any) E4 without mats.
I think the OP gets it right in his blog, he had a great day and described what he did.
Nice blog entry.
Post edited at 19:19
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In reply to MischaHY:
I've done a lot of stuff in this style, though usually with two or three mats not ten or more. I think in general the fear is healthy, arises for good reasons; and folk are right to be cautious even with twenty pads. Fall from that height and you have to land well. Any mistakes - sketch off, land awkwardly, or just find a soft spot or crack in the pads and you'll be lucky if you don't end up in hospital. I've seen enough people get it wrong.
I've done a lot of stuff in this style, though usually with two or three mats not ten or more. I think in general the fear is healthy, arises for good reasons; and folk are right to be cautious even with twenty pads. Fall from that height and you have to land well. Any mistakes - sketch off, land awkwardly, or just find a soft spot or crack in the pads and you'll be lucky if you don't end up in hospital. I've seen enough people get it wrong.
In reply to Adam Long:
For sure. I'd never used this many mats before, but even with them all out, one lad managed to take a lob off the upper crux and nearly land back first on a boulder - hence my contemplation about how safe it actually is; sure, the danger seems to be negated, but does this lead to overconfidence and potentially more risky ascents based on that?
All I can say it is was good fun and I'll definitely do it again, I'm pleased folk seem to be enjoying the blog
For sure. I'd never used this many mats before, but even with them all out, one lad managed to take a lob off the upper crux and nearly land back first on a boulder - hence my contemplation about how safe it actually is; sure, the danger seems to be negated, but does this lead to overconfidence and potentially more risky ascents based on that?
All I can say it is was good fun and I'll definitely do it again, I'm pleased folk seem to be enjoying the blog
In reply to MischaHY:
you could probably achieve a similar effect with a good snowdrift, but you might have to wait a bit for one! p.s. good effort on going for them, we met briefly when you were coming off the pinnacle. which level of death was it?
you could probably achieve a similar effect with a good snowdrift, but you might have to wait a bit for one! p.s. good effort on going for them, we met briefly when you were coming off the pinnacle. which level of death was it?
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In reply to MischaHY:
Did you top it out up the arete? or jump off when you got to the break, did this a few years ago above 2 mats, and jumped off a few times before committing to the crux. I was most scared going around the corner once I'd got the ledge, but didn't go to the top, and scuttled down Valkrie crack. I enjoyed the direct start to it more than the traverse (heathen that I am)
Did any one do mint400 that was much too hard and worrying for me.
Rich
Did you top it out up the arete? or jump off when you got to the break, did this a few years ago above 2 mats, and jumped off a few times before committing to the crux. I was most scared going around the corner once I'd got the ledge, but didn't go to the top, and scuttled down Valkrie crack. I enjoyed the direct start to it more than the traverse (heathen that I am)
Did any one do mint400 that was much too hard and worrying for me.
Rich
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In reply to Rich D:
We hit the ledge and then escaped via the Valkyrie traverse. I'm not sure if anyone did mint400 that day, but I'm pretty sure it has been done in a similar style recently.
We hit the ledge and then escaped via the Valkyrie traverse. I'm not sure if anyone did mint400 that day, but I'm pretty sure it has been done in a similar style recently.
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In reply to Michael Hood:
99.9999% certain that's not the case for either ascent . He did start off a pile of rocks though.
> If I remember correctly, Tom Proctor put a mattress below Green Death but that may have been for the TV repeat rather than the 1st ascent.
99.9999% certain that's not the case for either ascent . He did start off a pile of rocks though.
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In reply to Graham Hoey:
What a nugget that is! ever since I saw him on menopause in a stripey top he's been a hero of mine.
What a nugget that is! ever since I saw him on menopause in a stripey top he's been a hero of mine.
In reply to Graham Hoey:
Didn't we all in the old days?
Wan't Jim Perrin the first to use a mattress, on Censor at Stanage, or is that an urban myth?
> 99.9999% certain that's not the case for either ascent . He did start off a pile of rocks though.
Didn't we all in the old days?
Wan't Jim Perrin the first to use a mattress, on Censor at Stanage, or is that an urban myth?
In reply to Adam Long:
Yep - as you know, I can vouch for that!
I hit the pads coming off White Wand post-crux and went straight through, my heel making contact with a pointed rock beneath the pads. A broken calcaneus, plate and 12 screws and 6 weeks of non weight-bearing made me re-evaluate my approach to grit routes.
It's safer with pads, but still not safe! I tried Narcissus in this style but was always too scared to commit to the moves into the crack. Felt too fluffable at that height, so well done to the OP on this ascent...
> Fall from that height and you have to land well. Any mistakes - sketch off, land awkwardly, or just find a soft spot or crack in the pads and you'll be lucky if you don't end up in hospital. I've seen enough people get it wrong.
Yep - as you know, I can vouch for that!
I hit the pads coming off White Wand post-crux and went straight through, my heel making contact with a pointed rock beneath the pads. A broken calcaneus, plate and 12 screws and 6 weeks of non weight-bearing made me re-evaluate my approach to grit routes.
It's safer with pads, but still not safe! I tried Narcissus in this style but was always too scared to commit to the moves into the crack. Felt too fluffable at that height, so well done to the OP on this ascent...
In reply to 1234None:
ouch, the knowledge of your breakage was running through my mind on white wand I can tell you.
I fell off the top crack of narcisuss above pads, would have been fine but bounced into the surrounding rocks. I have hurt my back but wouldn't change it for the world. A number of us have had mild whiplash this week from the longer falls. Great stuff.
This Nouveau Griche style lowers the probability of hurting yourself but retains the spice, as evidenced above.
Adam's idea* of a font grade and !, !! and !!! system similar to DWS S-grades would be a very worthy addition to how we approach highballs, though it should be obvious when you walk up to the thing!
*(might of got confused with the snowball grading, still works though)
ouch, the knowledge of your breakage was running through my mind on white wand I can tell you.
I fell off the top crack of narcisuss above pads, would have been fine but bounced into the surrounding rocks. I have hurt my back but wouldn't change it for the world. A number of us have had mild whiplash this week from the longer falls. Great stuff.
This Nouveau Griche style lowers the probability of hurting yourself but retains the spice, as evidenced above.
Adam's idea* of a font grade and !, !! and !!! system similar to DWS S-grades would be a very worthy addition to how we approach highballs, though it should be obvious when you walk up to the thing!
*(might of got confused with the snowball grading, still works though)
Post edited at 09:35
In reply to GuyVG:
The exclamation mark comes form the font 7 n 8 guide so not entirely original.
Recently I've been playing around with some topos recently and have been using two levels of exclamation mark, normal (!) and bold (!) plus the E grade in brackets.
Something like this:
3. Narcissus 7a ! (E6) Arete climbed mainly on left, reachy start
The exclamation mark comes form the font 7 n 8 guide so not entirely original.
Recently I've been playing around with some topos recently and have been using two levels of exclamation mark, normal (!) and bold (!) plus the E grade in brackets.
Something like this:
3. Narcissus 7a ! (E6) Arete climbed mainly on left, reachy start
In reply to MischaHY:
Nice blog.It is possible to do Oedipus without the chipped hold.I'd say E3 with mats.Hard to grade Narcissus with mats,but well done youth.Makes you think;Bancroft had no mats and is only 5 foot 7.Narcissus Two is worth doing too,left side of 2nd part of Valkrie.
Nice blog.It is possible to do Oedipus without the chipped hold.I'd say E3 with mats.Hard to grade Narcissus with mats,but well done youth.Makes you think;Bancroft had no mats and is only 5 foot 7.Narcissus Two is worth doing too,left side of 2nd part of Valkrie.
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In reply to MischaHY:
Oedipus is OK but I once fell off the last hard move on Narcissus, but the ground was higher then. Still hurt, but got it second go. Knees are now knackered from shinnanigans like that. Wish we,d had pads back in the day [&sticky rubber]!!
Oedipus is OK but I once fell off the last hard move on Narcissus, but the ground was higher then. Still hurt, but got it second go. Knees are now knackered from shinnanigans like that. Wish we,d had pads back in the day [&sticky rubber]!!
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