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Currently skiing with family in Saint Gervais. BiL's Volvo XC90 brought us down here without a hitch, but it's now suffering from an intermittent 'limp mode', where power is restricted. Then it comes back and will run perfectly normally. Cycling the ignition sometimes clears the problem. It's not long since a last, fairly major service.
Of course, the engine management unit doesn't give any useful diagnostics, just saying 'service required'... The thing is stuffed full of computers.
My gut feel is some fuel blockage, or an intermittent contact to one of many engine sensors. Fuel sounds unlikely, as the performance restriction seems to 'managed'.
We'd considered disconnecting the battery to clear the EMU fault, but I have a horrible feeling that would only raise another service error, and not clear the fault conditions...
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Of course, the engine management unit doesn't give any useful diagnostics, just saying 'service required'... The thing is stuffed full of computers.
My gut feel is some fuel blockage, or an intermittent contact to one of many engine sensors. Fuel sounds unlikely, as the performance restriction seems to 'managed'.
We'd considered disconnecting the battery to clear the EMU fault, but I have a horrible feeling that would only raise another service error, and not clear the fault conditions...
Any suggestions gratefully received.
In reply to captain paranoia:
I had a V50 which started off doing that over a period of two weeks... It was difficult to identify the fault when it was working perfectly. Eventually the EMU failed completely and the engine died sounding like the pistons were bursting through the block. Diagnosis by an agent suggested the engine was a write off, but a replacement EMU cured the problem and the car ran for a further 50k before I changed it.
I had a V50 which started off doing that over a period of two weeks... It was difficult to identify the fault when it was working perfectly. Eventually the EMU failed completely and the engine died sounding like the pistons were bursting through the block. Diagnosis by an agent suggested the engine was a write off, but a replacement EMU cured the problem and the car ran for a further 50k before I changed it.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
All anyone can do on here is make their best guess at what it could be, you need to get it plugged into to a fault code reader there should be a few on the resort. If I was in the same position I'd find the local garage and ask there. In Uk you'd get this done for anything from nothing upto about £40, once you know your problem you'll have a few more options.
All anyone can do on here is make their best guess at what it could be, you need to get it plugged into to a fault code reader there should be a few on the resort. If I was in the same position I'd find the local garage and ask there. In Uk you'd get this done for anything from nothing upto about £40, once you know your problem you'll have a few more options.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Not had it on a XC90 but a V70 gave those symptoms and it was the electronic throttle.
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/etm.shtml
Good luck!
Not had it on a XC90 but a V70 gave those symptoms and it was the electronic throttle.
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/etm.shtml
Good luck!
In reply to John Simpson:
Yes, I understand that; I'm just asking around for people's experiences.
Reading Volvo forums suggest fault codes and recovery from this problem isn't a linear process, and many reports of Volvo main dealers a) not having a clue; b) charging lots of money for spurious work and c) not fixing the problem...
It also seems that Volvo EMU codes are rather unique, and not necessarily available to independent local garages...
> All anyone can do on here is make their best guess at what it could be
Yes, I understand that; I'm just asking around for people's experiences.
Reading Volvo forums suggest fault codes and recovery from this problem isn't a linear process, and many reports of Volvo main dealers a) not having a clue; b) charging lots of money for spurious work and c) not fixing the problem...
It also seems that Volvo EMU codes are rather unique, and not necessarily available to independent local garages...
In reply to captain paranoia:
My experience is this is pretty easy to fix, you just need the right tools, like a scanner for a start.
Problem with forums is, you get every single persons views rather than the answer you're looking for.
I'd be very surprised that a standard commercial scanner wouldn't give you the fault codes.
> Yes, I understand that; I'm just asking around for people's experiences.
My experience is this is pretty easy to fix, you just need the right tools, like a scanner for a start.
> Reading Volvo forums suggest fault codes and recovery from this problem isn't a linear process, and many reports of Volvo main dealers a) not having a clue; b) charging lots of money for spurious work and c) not fixing the problem...
Problem with forums is, you get every single persons views rather than the answer you're looking for.
> It also seems that Volvo EMU codes are rather unique, and not necessarily available to independent local garages...
I'd be very surprised that a standard commercial scanner wouldn't give you the fault codes.
In reply to captain paranoia:
which light is it that comes on the dash?
Have you managed to get any codes at all to read?
which light is it that comes on the dash?
Have you managed to get any codes at all to read?
In reply to captain paranoia:
Is it diesel? How cold is it out there?
Had a few problems with deisel not quite frozen, but sludgy triping a low fuel rail pressure sensor causing limp mode in the past which clears as the car warms up after switching off and back on. Had this at minus 10 ish
Is it diesel? How cold is it out there?
Had a few problems with deisel not quite frozen, but sludgy triping a low fuel rail pressure sensor causing limp mode in the past which clears as the car warms up after switching off and back on. Had this at minus 10 ish
Post edited at 21:14
In reply to balmybaldwin:
This is probably your problem. Have you filled up in St Gervais or are you still using fuel from the drive/UK? I live up in Chamonix and if you don't have winter diesel then you get problems with the fuel filter waxing up at about -10 (as happened to me this morning in my diesel) or -20 with winter fuel (exact temps vary from car to car, or filter to filter, metal filters being worse than plastic)
Try to keep the engine between about 1500-1900 rpm and drive gently on the throttle for at least 20 mins before going above 2000rpm, and remember, a long downhill will chill the engine, so you need to start again. A good cold spell can see a line of cars at the start of the autoroute by Le Fayet having driven down fine from Chamonix, then put the foot down to get to 110kph only for the limp mode to kick in!
This is probably your problem. Have you filled up in St Gervais or are you still using fuel from the drive/UK? I live up in Chamonix and if you don't have winter diesel then you get problems with the fuel filter waxing up at about -10 (as happened to me this morning in my diesel) or -20 with winter fuel (exact temps vary from car to car, or filter to filter, metal filters being worse than plastic)
Try to keep the engine between about 1500-1900 rpm and drive gently on the throttle for at least 20 mins before going above 2000rpm, and remember, a long downhill will chill the engine, so you need to start again. A good cold spell can see a line of cars at the start of the autoroute by Le Fayet having driven down fine from Chamonix, then put the foot down to get to 110kph only for the limp mode to kick in!
In reply to captain paranoia:
Diesel ??
Is it normally driven on short journeys ?? Doesn't get warmed up properly ?? Does it get a good run out regularly ??
It could be the Turbos variable vanes stuck. When you put your foot down asking the Turbo for extra boost. If the vanes are stuck, no extra boost so the sensor thinks there is something wrong and, well, welcome to limp home mode. Switch of, and it will reset the car.
One thing you can do is to try to free the vanes. Cruise along somewhere safe at 40mph in MANUAL 4th gear. Floor it up to 60mph and take your foot of the pedal and coast back down to 40mph. You may ?? Hear a squealing from under the bonnet. You may have to do this more than once to free the vanes up. Doing this puts the turbo through the maximum pressure and can free the vanes up. Try it and see. It works for our XC90.
TBH, it could be lots of things. Cracked turbo pipes, Leaking vacuum engine mounts.
Best of luck.
An under powered battery will not help either.
Diesel ??
Is it normally driven on short journeys ?? Doesn't get warmed up properly ?? Does it get a good run out regularly ??
It could be the Turbos variable vanes stuck. When you put your foot down asking the Turbo for extra boost. If the vanes are stuck, no extra boost so the sensor thinks there is something wrong and, well, welcome to limp home mode. Switch of, and it will reset the car.
One thing you can do is to try to free the vanes. Cruise along somewhere safe at 40mph in MANUAL 4th gear. Floor it up to 60mph and take your foot of the pedal and coast back down to 40mph. You may ?? Hear a squealing from under the bonnet. You may have to do this more than once to free the vanes up. Doing this puts the turbo through the maximum pressure and can free the vanes up. Try it and see. It works for our XC90.
TBH, it could be lots of things. Cracked turbo pipes, Leaking vacuum engine mounts.
Best of luck.
An under powered battery will not help either.
Post edited at 21:55
In reply to captain paranoia:
As others have said, it could be due to many things and the only definitive answer is to get the fault codes read, preferably by a Volvo main dealer. There's one in Annecy (+33 4 50 22 63 50) and one a bit closer in Annemasse (+33 4 50 84 59 59). Is the car covered by Volvo Assistance? If it is, then talk to them.
As you say it could be a sensor but it could also be a fuel issue. I presume it's a diesel and if so, I've experienced a similar problem in an Audi which was caused by frozen water in the fuel filter which was partially blocking it. The EMS fault code indicated a fuel supply issue and the VAG dealer in Briancon then knew exactly where to look. One filter change later and all was well once more. It could also be due to waxing fuel, but more doubtful as all diesel currently sold in France is winter grade. But if it's getting down to -25C at night then it could be this (as others have suggested.) If it's very cold in Saint Gervais, take a trip down to the valley - or to wherever it's much warmer - and go for a good drive to see if the fault repeats itself. If it does, then it's not likely to be the fuel ....
There's nothing to be lost by disconnecting the battery for a couple of hours; it won't do any harm but I somehow doubt if this'll solve your problem by itself.
Good luck!
As others have said, it could be due to many things and the only definitive answer is to get the fault codes read, preferably by a Volvo main dealer. There's one in Annecy (+33 4 50 22 63 50) and one a bit closer in Annemasse (+33 4 50 84 59 59). Is the car covered by Volvo Assistance? If it is, then talk to them.
As you say it could be a sensor but it could also be a fuel issue. I presume it's a diesel and if so, I've experienced a similar problem in an Audi which was caused by frozen water in the fuel filter which was partially blocking it. The EMS fault code indicated a fuel supply issue and the VAG dealer in Briancon then knew exactly where to look. One filter change later and all was well once more. It could also be due to waxing fuel, but more doubtful as all diesel currently sold in France is winter grade. But if it's getting down to -25C at night then it could be this (as others have suggested.) If it's very cold in Saint Gervais, take a trip down to the valley - or to wherever it's much warmer - and go for a good drive to see if the fault repeats itself. If it does, then it's not likely to be the fuel ....
There's nothing to be lost by disconnecting the battery for a couple of hours; it won't do any harm but I somehow doubt if this'll solve your problem by itself.
Good luck!
In reply to captain paranoia:
Had a similar problem with my own car, and it turned out to be a split vacuum hose. Car was normally fine, but sometime you went over a bump or the suspension flexed and the hose flexed, let some air in/out and suddenly I was in Limp mode.
'course, as soon as I stopped and cycled the ignition, the problem went away..... until the next time.
Main dealer wanted to charge me £1500 for a new turbo, local independent took two hours to find the split hose (1.85 + VAT for the part). I've still got said hose in front of me on my desk now, and the split is difficult to see from six inches in good light.
Not saying this is your problem, but a split hose may be an idea.
Had a similar problem with my own car, and it turned out to be a split vacuum hose. Car was normally fine, but sometime you went over a bump or the suspension flexed and the hose flexed, let some air in/out and suddenly I was in Limp mode.
'course, as soon as I stopped and cycled the ignition, the problem went away..... until the next time.
Main dealer wanted to charge me £1500 for a new turbo, local independent took two hours to find the split hose (1.85 + VAT for the part). I've still got said hose in front of me on my desk now, and the split is difficult to see from six inches in good light.
Not saying this is your problem, but a split hose may be an idea.
In reply to captain paranoia:
I'd avoid Volvo main stealers if I were you, frankly, their cr@p. We had a 4x4 problem. Went to the local main dealer, 3hrs labour and found nothing. 20 minutes forum searching by us, spline sleeve/angle gear was worn out. Volvo said they didn't know anything about this kind of problem and it would take 3 weeks to get the part from Sweden as they didn't have it in stock.. 3 weeks ?? None in stock ?? When they never heard of the problem. Yer right. Local independent Volvo garage had one on the shelves and the specialist puller to remove it, £700 fitted. Ours was the 3rd he changed that year. Volvo wanted £2k.
Any code reader will find the fault codes, a bit of Googling will interpret which ones are which. But you'll still not be sure because some codes relate to more than one fault. ECM 64 summatorother boost pressure fault was one of ours. The Turbo pressurises the vacuum engine mounts. Get even a small leak in the mounts or rubber pipes feeding the mounts, and you'll never get the required boost pressure. So, Limp mode again. But it could be a faulty Turbo. EGR valve blocked up. DPF needs a clean.
I've towed a Caravan on an 800mile round trip with the limp mode fault. Had it come on in the middle lane of the M1. Scary when all you've got is 30mph and 2k revs and you're towing a 1.5 ton van.
They are good cars when everything is working ok. Bag of shi*e when they're not.
I'd avoid Volvo main stealers if I were you, frankly, their cr@p. We had a 4x4 problem. Went to the local main dealer, 3hrs labour and found nothing. 20 minutes forum searching by us, spline sleeve/angle gear was worn out. Volvo said they didn't know anything about this kind of problem and it would take 3 weeks to get the part from Sweden as they didn't have it in stock.. 3 weeks ?? None in stock ?? When they never heard of the problem. Yer right. Local independent Volvo garage had one on the shelves and the specialist puller to remove it, £700 fitted. Ours was the 3rd he changed that year. Volvo wanted £2k.
Any code reader will find the fault codes, a bit of Googling will interpret which ones are which. But you'll still not be sure because some codes relate to more than one fault. ECM 64 summatorother boost pressure fault was one of ours. The Turbo pressurises the vacuum engine mounts. Get even a small leak in the mounts or rubber pipes feeding the mounts, and you'll never get the required boost pressure. So, Limp mode again. But it could be a faulty Turbo. EGR valve blocked up. DPF needs a clean.
I've towed a Caravan on an 800mile round trip with the limp mode fault. Had it come on in the middle lane of the M1. Scary when all you've got is 30mph and 2k revs and you're towing a 1.5 ton van.
They are good cars when everything is working ok. Bag of shi*e when they're not.
Post edited at 23:57
In reply to captain paranoia:
As gdp and Balmybaldwin suggest, go and fill it up with winter diesel and see if this cures your problem.
As gdp and Balmybaldwin suggest, go and fill it up with winter diesel and see if this cures your problem.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Thanks for all the suggestions. The car was parked in a garage overnight, so it really shouldn't have been gelling diesel. In the end, we managed to get by by 'turning it off and on agan', which generally brought it out of idle mode. At one point, it asserted the emissions sensor light. At least that was explained in the owner's manual. Now back in the UK, a trip to an independent Volvo specialist for diagnostics showed that it was reporting trouble with the diesel particulate filter. This was probably caused by being stuck in the traffic carnage on Saturday; we managed not to be some of the 15000 people stuck overnight, but we were delayed by five hours due to multiple accidents, including a four-vehicle pile up in a tunnel...
It's bloody annoying that the EMU knows what the problem is, but doesn't report the nature of the problem to the user; you need an 'expert' with a diagnostic tool. Basically, seems to be a rip-off to make work for garages. I think I'll have to investigate some of the CAN to USB interfaces that are available, to be used with diagnostic apps.
Thanks for all the suggestions. The car was parked in a garage overnight, so it really shouldn't have been gelling diesel. In the end, we managed to get by by 'turning it off and on agan', which generally brought it out of idle mode. At one point, it asserted the emissions sensor light. At least that was explained in the owner's manual. Now back in the UK, a trip to an independent Volvo specialist for diagnostics showed that it was reporting trouble with the diesel particulate filter. This was probably caused by being stuck in the traffic carnage on Saturday; we managed not to be some of the 15000 people stuck overnight, but we were delayed by five hours due to multiple accidents, including a four-vehicle pile up in a tunnel...
It's bloody annoying that the EMU knows what the problem is, but doesn't report the nature of the problem to the user; you need an 'expert' with a diagnostic tool. Basically, seems to be a rip-off to make work for garages. I think I'll have to investigate some of the CAN to USB interfaces that are available, to be used with diagnostic apps.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Beyond pooping the bonnet to convince yourself you can't see anything hanging off or pinched I'd take it somewhere that can read the fault code and fix it. It's a long drive home in a broken car.
It's probably electrical and it could be anything that isn't absolutely essential to keeping the thing running (very few sensors are actually essential, most just monitor or are used to enhance performance).
edit: Ah, I see you have it sorted.
jk
> Any suggestions gratefully received.
Beyond pooping the bonnet to convince yourself you can't see anything hanging off or pinched I'd take it somewhere that can read the fault code and fix it. It's a long drive home in a broken car.
It's probably electrical and it could be anything that isn't absolutely essential to keeping the thing running (very few sensors are actually essential, most just monitor or are used to enhance performance).
edit: Ah, I see you have it sorted.
jk
Post edited at 09:30
In reply to captain paranoia:
One of these and a smartphone will tell you just about everything you need to know (although may not give the detail of a vehicle specific one)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Engine-READER/dp/B004K...
> Thanks for all the suggestions. The car was parked in a garage overnight, so it really shouldn't have been gelling diesel. In the end, we managed to get by by 'turning it off and on agan', which generally brought it out of idle mode. At one point, it asserted the emissions sensor light. At least that was explained in the owner's manual. Now back in the UK, a trip to an independent Volvo specialist for diagnostics showed that it was reporting trouble with the diesel particulate filter. This was probably caused by being stuck in the traffic carnage on Saturday; we managed not to be some of the 15000 people stuck overnight, but we were delayed by five hours due to multiple accidents, including a four-vehicle pile up in a tunnel...
> It's bloody annoying that the EMU knows what the problem is, but doesn't report the nature of the problem to the user; you need an 'expert' with a diagnostic tool. Basically, seems to be a rip-off to make work for garages. I think I'll have to investigate some of the CAN to USB interfaces that are available, to be used with diagnostic apps.
One of these and a smartphone will tell you just about everything you need to know (although may not give the detail of a vehicle specific one)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Engine-READER/dp/B004K...
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Slight correction, one of these will give you the information the manufacturer wants you to know, not necessarily the same thing. Even the £3000 + £1000 yearly subscription offerings from the likes of Snap-On are not always accurate and take an amount of detective work to isolate the problem.
Cheers Adam
> One of these and a smartphone will tell you just about everything you need to know (although may not give the detail of a vehicle specific one)
Slight correction, one of these will give you the information the manufacturer wants you to know, not necessarily the same thing. Even the £3000 + £1000 yearly subscription offerings from the likes of Snap-On are not always accurate and take an amount of detective work to isolate the problem.
Cheers Adam
In reply to butteredfrog:
What's your take on the likes of Hawkeye and nanocom? Any use to the home tinkerer?
What's your take on the likes of Hawkeye and nanocom? Any use to the home tinkerer?
In reply to butteredfrog:
True, but in combination with google for instance it allows me to confirm and clear egr faults fuel rail pressure issue mentioned above, and identify an air bag sensor issue even if it could not tell me which sensor and what the problem was, and for a tenner its worth having to at least point you in the right direction.
True, but in combination with google for instance it allows me to confirm and clear egr faults fuel rail pressure issue mentioned above, and identify an air bag sensor issue even if it could not tell me which sensor and what the problem was, and for a tenner its worth having to at least point you in the right direction.
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