UKC

Some are easy to quantify and avoid and others are far more complex, but here Jack Geldard explores 8 common climbing accidents and gives some advice on how to avoid them.

From rock fall to abseiling to snapping slings, there's some wise words in this article for almost every climbing situation...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6962

In reply to UKC Articles:

Common sense stuff is always useful to be reminded of.

I'd like to know if that climber used to illustrate tying in properly came out of that okay, anyone know?

In reply to drmarten:


It is Photoshopped,


Chris

In reply to drmarten:


It´s a photo-shop that UKC have used before, not everything you see in the media is true!

In reply to drmarten:

It would be nicer if the caption stated this.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Excellent, sensible article. The DMM video showing how easy it is to break slack slings is sobering but really educative.

In reply to drmarten:


Myself and Alan did that years ago. It was one of the first warnings about checking your knot to be used in the UK and was used by the BMC and distributed to climbing walls in the UK.

The actual idea came from an Los Angeles police department poster.

And as Chris says, yes it was photoshopped.

Mick

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Ah! No climbers were harmed in the making of this photo then. Good.

In reply to Michael Ryan:
Thanks Mick, the photo got my attention so it has served its purpose.

In reply to UKC Articles:

So has anyone been in one of these (or a different) climbing accident / near miss?

I have been dropped almost (luckily!) to the ground by an inattentive belayer with a skinny rope and a wide belay device. I have also been hit by rockfall because I climbed underneath other people on a loose route. And lastly I once looked at my knot halfway up a pitch only to realise I hadn't finished it off - and was climbing essentially solo, but thinking I was protected by bolts! I grabbed the rope pretty quickly!

I would like to point out that I am pretty safe really!

Jack

In reply to UKC Articles:

Another variant of not tying in properly which causes accidents is forgetting to clip-in when using an auto-belay.

In reply to UKC Articles:


No shit, Sherlock! God, who does that?

Good article, though.

jcm

In reply to UKC Articles:

There's an argument that bowlines are safer than figure of eights. Apparently some climbers have been distracted while tying a figure of eight and started climbing without completing the knot. This is less likely to happen with a bowline because of the way you tie it.

However figure of eights are definitely better for multipitch because they work in all directions, that is you can clip in to the loop of the knot if you need to. They look more secure but a properly tied bowline should never come undone by itself.

In reply to stp:

Surely a bowline could equally be mis tied due to distraction?

Just ask John Long.

In reply to stp:

Nonsense, thats just daft speculation, any knot can be tied wrong if distracted and for a bowline its way more serious if you get distracted before you put the stopper on. The fig 8 is safer because its easier for others to spot and warn you if its unfinished and less likely to come loose in a long day.

For John Ive seen 2 parties in the US bypass rap anchors trying to stretch it and get in trouble (fortunately without a bad ending). Also rope snags leading to benightments without warm clothes is an even bigger issue.

Good clear and concise article Jack. The sling snapping has gone up my risk agenda after the BMC safety demo that compared two new slings to destruction: one cut halfway through and one rubbed on a rough rock with the rubbed sling being weaker.

In reply to Offwidth:

In reply to stp:


But THIS is why you tie a stopper knot after your figure 8 - it forces you to check the knot and ensures you have a long enough tail. (and I was going to reference John Long's bowline failure too!)

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
After 30 years of climbing I had two belay incidents, both my fault. And I consider myself safe too, Jackus, as most people do.

Both were at climbing walls, both involved a Gri-gri.

First, I was lowering a friend at a busy climbing wall. For some reason I stopped looking at him as I was lowering him.

I thought he was on the floor and I pulled slack out of the Gri-gri so that he could untie. He wasn't on the floor, but just above me. Someone else's leader next to me had just arrived at the ground and I thought that was my partner. It was a very crowded wall.

My partner slammed to the floor from just above my head. Luckily he was OK.

Second is a classic. When belaying I always check my partners knot, check my screwgate is locked and if using a Gri-gri check that it is threaded the correct way so that so that the live rope is coming out of the GRi-gri where the man icon is; to check this I say out loud to my partner...'You are the man' (rather than the 'hand').

On this occasion I didn't do this and the Gri-gri was threaded incorrectly with the live rope coming out of the 'hand' icon.....which could have been disastrous. Luckily I noticed at the third bolt and called the leader to clip into the bolt and corrected my mistake.

I do have a third - my son was belaying me at a wall with a Gri-gri and I reached the anchors. I told him I would down climb to get extra pumped. He let out slack as I down-climbed. It was hot and sweaty, and I fell.

He as most inexperienced belayers may do, grabbed the handle!!!!

The rope ripped through the Gri-gri.

I decked it from 20ft onto a pad luckily and horizontally on my back with no injury. Very lucky.

I do still use a Gri-gri and I'm extra attentive now - not that I thought I was inattentive before.

Mistakes are easy to make.

Look out for each other.

Mick

In reply to UKC Articles:

On the matter of bad belayers, it's like that scene of Rounders. If you walk into a crag or a gym and after 30 minutes you haven't seen some bad belaying, than YOU are the bad belayer.

In reply to UKC Articles:

I remember turning up at Staden Quarry and setting up immediately under the route we wanted to climb - which had a party already on it. Sitting putting my shoes on, heard a shout, looked up and the sky was black with falling blocks. Any one could have killed me; every one missed. Lesson; NEVER be tempted to gear up under your route if there's anyone above.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Great article, good to be reminded of these easy mistakes.


I have lowered my partner off the end of a rope at 20m. No one was hurt.

Story here.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=562441&v=1#x7484359

In reply to UKC Articles:
Not sure how common this is, but I was at a loose end at St Govans one day, so spent the time shunting "get some in". Falling off near the top on one lap, I unconciously grabbed the shunt, holding it open and falling the length of the route, just letting go in time, and with tremendous rope stretch, just missing decking out.
You know you've gone a long way when you have the time to notice how fast the rock is going past you.
What a d**k!

In reply to UKC Articles:

Was recently hit with a mug sized rock from a sport route (clearly hasn't seen a lot of traffic recently) from about 50 feet I dodged the shoebox death block and got a direct hit to the crown with the other. I had my north face protective tammie on which maybe helped a bit.

Came as close to blacking out as you can without actually blacking out.

All I could think about was holding the rope and not dropping my partner!

In reply to UKC Articles:

On the business of tying a knot in the end of the rope Jack, best to actually tie the knot in both ends separately to remove the likelehood of ropes twisting. Otherwise a good article.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

but if you do that you can forget to untie the knot before pulling the ropes...

In reply to alastairbegley:


Which reminds me of a time on Cloggy West Buttress, having to abseil off in a thunderstorm and just above the final ab the rope well and truely jammed. No option but to climb back up the rope. I should stress that this lower part of cloggy is overhanging!

In reply to drmarten:

"Ah! No climbers were harmed in the making of this photo then. Good."

That picture was making my toes curl... This would be a great disclaimer.

In reply to jezb1:

Err, no. A 'mistied' bowline is just a rope, as it will not hold a shape that may resemble a knot.

What happened to John Long is that he threaded the rope through the harness and nothing else. So the equivalent of doing a fig-8, and threading the harness but not rethreading the knot. Whichever knot he chose to not tie on the day would have had the same outcome.

But this is going way off topic and the Knots War has been done to death

In reply to jezb1:

Long says that he ties in with a double bowline, but this time, distracted and tired after a long day of work, he didn't finish the knot. "I made the two bowline loops," he says, "and threaded the rope through my harness, but I didn't bring the rabbit out of the hole and around the tree."

Adds Long: "A lot of people are down on the bowline, but the same thing would have happened with a trace-8. I just wasn't paying attention."

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/john-long-accident-details-and-update

In reply to Mr Lopez:
So he was distracted and mis tied his bowline... That's what he says?

In reply to jezb1:

No, he was distracted and did not tie any knot at all. As in he threaded the rope through the harness, and then just dropped the rope with no attempt of making a knot.


No you can't. give it a try

In reply to Mr Lopez:
Never underestimate people's ability to do the unexpected.

On a number of occasions when assessing people I've checked a knot around a tree or boulder for example and asked what knot is that? They've told me that's a bowline and they've done something unrecognisable.

I get what you're saying though, obviously. I think you're getting hung up on my phrasing.

In my mind mis tied also means lacking a stopper.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


My mate last Sunday. I had just tried to run the top two pitches of a route together, run out of rope and taken an interim belay, from which he led through the remaining ten metres or so. Then proceeded to try to ab back down the same top two pitches on the same ropes.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Biggest wake up call I had was belaying up someone on Behomoth at Swanage. Really solid two point belay well equalised but a long way back. Unfortunately they were equalised with me facing straight out to sea but the top of the route comes up at a bit of an angle. Partner, out of sight below and on steep ground, fell with absolutely no warning. The sudden load pulled me sideways and my grip on the rope momentarily loosened, resulting in pretty horrible rope burns and a fraction of second mid flight panic for my partner.

Lessons learned - if someone falls directly onto the belayer (rather than with the rope running through an anchor like it does on a top rope) the impact on the belayer is much, much higher and the fall much harder to hold. Of course when the second is visible the fall is anticipated the can take action beforehand but when its not expected.....
Make sure the belay is equalised to match the direction of the actual forces involved in a fall which is not necesarily straight out.

In reply to UKC Articles:

You've seen your mate looking at the hot girl at the climbing wall when he really should be looking at your lardy arse about to fall off this 6b+


A sexist assumption?

In reply to GrahamD:


Or do as they do in most countries, bring the second up on a direct belay, or via a redirect.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:


Rapping off end of ropes: no, but very close once in the Alps when looking for the next station. Hence now always knot the rope. I even do this on a 30ft ab, just so it is ingrained. I also always use a third hand.

Lowered off the end of the ropes: yep, see http://www.coldmountainkit.com/knowledge/articles/353-naked-helicopter-resc... if you fancy a laugh.

Dropped by belayer: yep. German who had never used a belay plate, but only a Munter. Went the whole pitch almost - ropes jammed in plate just before I decked. He got rope burns. Plus my daughter dropped me from the top of the Kendal wall when she was little. Sensibly she let go of everything when I was flying down and the grigri locked.

Hit by rock. Several times. Most recently at the base of El Cap: the rocks smashed my glasses and watch, and took a piece out of my ear - so kind of close. Helmet did its job.

Belay failing. Once at Bossi I pulled onto a ledge to find someone already belaying their partner who was leading the next pitch. His belay we a joke - two poor pieces - and the leader was having a hard time. After a while I couldn't take the stress, so put in a solid piece and clipped him to it. He was pissed off with me. Shortly afterwards his leader fell and his belay ripped from the wall. He was saved by my piece. The leader bust his leg.

Ab station failing. Rapping down in Red Rocks. Threaded the tat. Went to rap, tat failed. Just stopped myself going over the edge.

Bad belaying. Pitch 25 of the Nose: Noticed I had my partner on belay with the Grigri round the round way. Verdon: second fainted when I was on the crux - learnt some new self research techniques from that one.

Not finishing the knot. Once at the wall. Noticed when I was on 2m up.

In reply to David Coley:

Shit! I never think of the belayer passing out. What from, heat?

In reply to GrahamD:
So, why didn't you run it through a redirect? Or, if you have a reverso, belay from the anchor in auto-stop mode?

Just a question, as I don't know in what situation it would be better to belay a second directly from the waist unless your anchor is sketchy.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Hi Jack - great article! There is one thing missing from the list though - injury caused by leader falls.

Using data from MR call outs in England & Wales, between 1988-1999 53% of rescues involving climbers were to injured leaders who had fallen. Of these, 44% had fallen further than expected after protection had ripped out, and 51% had hit the ground.

This data does imply that up to half of the injured parties might have avoided injury by placing more or better protection. A good mantra I've heard people adopt is "2 good pieces between me and the floor" which obviously isn't always possible depending on the route, but is a good thing to aim for.

I feel that one trap people fall into is equating height with danger - it's often shorter routes and the first parts of longer ones which present the most risk.

My avoidance tips would therefore be: where possible, place more and better protection close to the ground, you can space things out more as you get higher. Make sure your belayer isn't too far out from the crag, as this can cause protection to lift out and unzip. Plan ahead, scope the route for protection possibilities, paying particular attention to the first part.

In reply to Oogachooga:


We never got to the bottom of it. It happened several times that summer, only once when climbing. She had a load of medical tests, but nothing found.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
>So has anyone been in one of these (or a different) climbing accident / near miss?

Yes, 3 and 7 - dropped climbing partner, followed by failed belay. {Have written about ... }

In reply to UKC Articles:
You could add Tie your belayer down in section #3 'dropped by your belayer'? It might be obvious if you're belayer is much lighter than you, but even with a belayer of a similar weight, if you fall low down with only one piece of gear between you and the ground (common on short, steep routes, such as grit), you can easily pull them off the deck and you hit the ground. I've had that happen to me, as well as #6.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:


Yes: 1. abseil anchor failed, fell a long way but wasn't killed [was injured]. Since then I have been extremely wary of abseiling and of abseil points.
2. Near miss on Dinas Mot. I was at the bottom when a gigantic boulder came flying down from the top of the cliff or above it. It made a loud whirring noise as it flew down through the air. It crashed into the scree with a tremendous noise, just missing me and others. It happened so fast there was no way to react or to move before it hit.

Edit, shortening Jack's post

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:


Was waiting on the ledge at the start of Meshach at Tremadog when a guy abbed off the 1st pitch of Shadrach. They were climbing on a single rope & either the middle wasn't marked or the marker wasn't in the centre; nobody spotted that both ends of the rope weren't on the ledge; he arrived just as one end went through his belay plate and would've taken a nasty tumble if not for another very quick thinking guy grabbing him just before he went over.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

A near miss rope too short when I was lowered of a sport climb. We were climbing one of the two pitch 5s at horseshoe a fw years ago, and had picked up a friends rope as they were using my 60. We didnt remember it was only a 50. Not too much of a worry until I decided to do the two pitches in one. I lowered off, and suddenly was glying, but luckily I had a QD attached to my ab loop as a spacer. The other end briefly caught on a hanger, slowing me a bit and I managed to snatch the rope!

My belayer and I had been climbing for a good few years, but simply failed to knot the end of the rope. He only noticed it as teh end flew through his hand. All in all a very lucky excape. I would have had bad landing from 10 or so meters up!

In reply to UKC Articles:

Good article. Possibly two missing. or is it one?

A lot of people seem to screw up threading anchors on sports routes. A reminder of the procedure and the need to double check everything?

And second, this point is reminded on the tying in / buddy check system, but with climbing it's always the little things you forget to do that have big consequences. e.g. Forgetting to tie in properly, threading the belay wrongly or not clipping the ends of a sling together properly. It's good to be aware what the high risk activities are (you've covered it well), but a mindset of checking and rechecking is maybe one of the most important accident avoidance mechanisms in its own right.

In reply to GrahamD:



Do you use Belay gloves, I don`t and had never climbed with anyone who did until last year, then two highly experienced people I climbed with whipped a pair out.
How good an idea are they?

In reply to Max factor:


Absolutely right, good words.

In reply to SCrossley:

I do actually use belay gloves, not all the time, but quite often when I am sport climbing and I definitely think they are a good idea.

Jack

In reply to UKC Articles:

I've just remembered another potentially serious incident which was fortunately very funny at the time.

A bunch of us were at Shorn Cliff, two of the more senior and very experienced guys took a novice up a route. At the top they went to great lengths lecturing him on how diligent you have to be about abbing off, explaining about checking everything. They carefully tied the ropes together then proceeded to throw both ends down the same side of the tree and watched the ropes disappear to the foot of the crag

In reply to drmarten:


The photo was taken way back in the mid 90s when the climber (Lewis Grundy) was properly tied on and just working a route at Fraguel. I did an early Photoshop job on the original and it was used by the BMC in a series of posters that went round climbing walls in around 2000 or so. I think it was their original 'Check or Deck' campaign.

Unfortunately Lewis was involved in a rather nasty bike accident just after this photo was taken, which did make a few people that recognise him think that he had taken the full ground fall.

Alan

In reply to Hat Dude:


That is actually quite funny... I bet the novice learned something!

In reply to UKC Articles:

Since there's a lot of owning up to mistakes on this thread, I'd better add my own - a near miss but potentially a nasty accident earlier this year.

Fat Freddie's Cat on Lundy is possibly the best of the not great but "sheltered" routes on the East side of the island. So the weather wasn't good. The midway stance is rather awkward and constricted. So I moved my belay plate round from it's normal position at my back to a forward gear loop before getting fully tied in. The rain was coming in so my partner was keen to get started. He was half way up the pitch before I realised I was belaying him from the gear loop instead of my belay loop.

Fortunately he's still prepared to climb with me.

New Year's resolution - never hang my belay device on a forward gear loop - always round the back, or on the belay loop.

In reply to Sean Kelly:


Nasty - in a thunderstorm too.

I've always found the West Buttress of Cloggy a grim and very serious place (although very good) - needs care.

In reply to Martin Hore:


Yes, and a good thing too - good for readers, and good for the writer.

In reply to SCrossley:

Belay gloves are interesting. In general, they actually reduce the amount of force you can apply, so the rope will start to slip at lower loads when using a manual belay device. The big advantage though is that when the rope does start to slip, you aren't going to let go because of rope burn. This makes them really useful for when you need to hold big falls or want to let the rope run because your leaders protection is really poor and you want to minimise the force on the top runner. They also make lowering and abseiling more comfortable.

In reply to Dan Middleton, BMC:

We haven’t had many abseiling off the end of the rope stories yet, I always thought you’d have to be a bit of an idiot to abb off a rope but I managed it last year. I was abseiling of a route – the base of the crag was seep and rocky but appeared less steep from the climb as they often do. We had thrown the ropes down but hadn’t bothered to tie knots in the end as it was the last ab and we could clearly see the ropes had reached the base of the crag (but not the base of the steep slope). So I merrily went down – got to the bottom –continued a few more feet down the steep slope to some flatter ground, and bang! – went straight off the ends and went flying backwards – i fortunately came away with just cuts and bruises but felt very silly. Moral of the storey – Always tie knots in the end!
I have also abbed off the ends on purpose in order to reach a ab station that our ropes were too short to reach – but the mistakes made in that incident are too many to detail!

In reply to Dan Middleton, BMC:


Yes I can imagine that as you would not be able to grip as efficently.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Watched a guy at Cogne being introduced to ice climbing by a guide. After practicing abalakov's at ground level for a bit the guide encouraged him to go about 15 m up an easy ice route, make a belay, make an abalakov and then rap back down off it (having removed his belay screws etc.). However he somehow managed to only thread one side of the rope through the abalakov tat into the belay plate, and therefore flew down the route (luckily into a large snow slope) when trying to start his rappel. Still not quite sure how he managed to not have weighted the ab line whilst removing his other protection, but maybe it was frozen to the cord or something providing some resistance. I was climbing at the time so just saw him fly past.

In reply to SCrossley:

I'd like to hear more from those using belay gloves - and who have held falls with them.

I was rapping down a single strand of an 8.5mm rope last year with my aid gloves on. These are leather, and I assume almost the same as belay gloves? I couldn't control my descent. The gloves have been well used and are hence polished. Even so, I might have expected to be able to hold my own weight through a Reverso!

I loaded by third hand, removed the gloves and ab'ed under control easily with bare hands.

In reply to David Coley:


Just to clarify, was this a fall direct onto the belay? Sounds as though you saved 2 people's lives there.

In reply to JuneBob:

Have you climbed at Swanage ? Basically you often need to get all your available ropes to reach belay stakes about 10m up a loose chossy slope. You yourself will be perched on some precarious blocks at the bottom of this chossy slope, well and truly tied into these ropes. It wouldn't be easy to rig both yourself and a direct rebelay in this situation.

Not that that ever really occurred to me - like most Brits I'm happy belaying from the harness.

In reply to David Coley:

In the days of waist belays (before belay devices were invented) they were essential. I can't really see how they are of much use nowadays, except perhaps for abseiling on a thin e.g 8.5 mm rope. When people say that the gloves reduce friction, perhaps it's because they've got crap belay gloves We used to use v cheap light grey reversed leather gardening gloves from Woolworths. Quite rough on the outside. The grip you could apply phenomenal, with not the slightest risk of burns. I held at least six major leader falls with them, including one directly onto my waist from a fall at 15 feet (only runner flew out) - colossal impact, but I still had no difficulty.

In reply to SCrossley:

Never used belay gloves.

In the situation I described above I shouldn't have needed them either if the direction of fall and the precarious nature of the 'seat' at the bottom of a typical Swanage top out choss slope (plus, probably, residual stretch in the belay ropes) meant that the fall pulled me over and so my grip was compromised.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


No. The leader's protection held, or at least some of it did. But the second was pulled sideways and off the ledge (this was part of the problem with his belay, the climb left the stance with a traverse then went upwards and his anchors were not built for a sideways force). He was left hanging from my piece. This might have meant the leader fell further than needed, and maybe he lost control of the plate a bit. I don't know. But the leader was stopped by some combination of the rope and the ledge he hit.

In reply to GrahamD:


I climb in the Ruckle a lot, and normally use a direct belay at the top. i.e. a Reverso in guide mode. One reason is that I can't see the second, the other that a fall at any moment is possible with all that loose rock. As this picture of me belaying at the top of the Ruckle shows, sometimes I just fall asleep: http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/7communication.htm

Although most Brits still do belay off the harness, on longer routes direct belays are becoming more common in the UK I think.

In reply to ebdon:

If I remember correctly there was a person killed a few years back in exactly those circumstances whilst abseiling of the Cromlech.

In reply to abseil:

The Mot is a notorious place for rockfall. I always seek some shelter when at the foot of the crag or have a lunch break well away from the foot of the crag.

Incidently on the abseiling point, has anyone nearly killed their second when dropping the ab ropes when their partner was still attached to the ropes!.I did it once at Tremadoc at the top of Merlin Direct and just grabbed my partner before the force came on his waist! A close call.

ps. Dave is your book available yet in hardback rather than Kindle?

In reply to David Coley:


In the late 90's Dave I was climbing with Bowden Black and again was caught by a thunderstorm high on Gambit Climb (in the Pass) and decided to ab as a convenient massive block was nearby, and I guessed we could reach the bottom on our 60mt ropes. As I was preparing to jump off I noticed that Bowden had no Fof8 and offered mine, as I would use crossed krabs. but he insisted on using a classic abseil even though the bottom bit was overhanging....and he was using leather gloves. He also refused to use a belay plate, again insisting on the classic shoulder belay along with his trusted leather gloves. He retorted that in 50 years he hadn't dropped anyone...yet!
A few weeks afterwards we were climbing that classic route Valkyrie at the Roaches and as he pulled over the top he exclaimed that he had last climbed the route 50 years back. It dawned on me that he meant the First Ascent with Peter Harding!

In reply to UKC Articles:

Rapping in to the sloping ledge at the foot of the N face of the Badile 4 years ago. Hassled by parties chomping at the bit behind us.
I had a Mammut rope with a marker at 10m? from each end as well as in the middle. Set up the ab thinking this marker was the middle of the rope and chucked it over (No knots, 1000ft drop below landing).
I just realized what was happening as my mate set off down. He would have gone off the end and died for sure. I still shiver when I think I would have been responsible.

Lesson learned - Tiredness, need for speed, social pressure = stupid mistakes.

I think that mark was supposed to warn you when the end of the rope was approaching. I haven't had a Mammut rope with those markings since - I wonder if they clocked the danger?

In reply to Sean Kelly:


You're very wise seeking shelter. And I didn't know the Mot is notorious: I've only seen one rockfall in many, many visits. Thanks for the warning. I think I'll have my lunch by the Cromlech boulders in future ha-ha...

Thanks for your abseiling story too - so close.

This thread is an education. It should be compulsory reading at Plas Y Brenin. (And I see it's often very experienced climbers getting pranged/ making fundamental mistakes).

In reply to GrahamD:

Nope, that's why I asked.

In reply to abseil:

Some time during the mid 1980s a group of us drove up from the Lakes to Ft William and headed up to the Ben to rock climb on Carn Dearg Buttress, it was probably July time, the shots of Al Phizacklea on King Kong in Extreme Rock were taken that day. We were intending to camp up there and climb both days so had bivvy kit as well as climbing kit.

Duly sat at the foot of the crag around the Centurion area readying ourselves for the climbs, Al and myself were sitting about 3 metres apart when there's a "wooosh" and a stone about the size of a golf ball lands between us and wipes out a cooking pan! No idea how it became dislodged as we were the only climbers on the crag that day and we were all at the foot of the crag. I don't think a helmet would have been much use TBH. We all moved ourselves and our kit in to the very base of the crag.

In the event, the weather turned in the late afternoon so we didn't stop up there.

In reply to Bob:


Scary - really, really close - and I think the whooshing sound indicates the speed it was moving at. In my close encounter at Dinas Mot the boulder was very much larger, but landed further away from us.

In reply to abseil:

It was all very, very quick. Sort of "whoosh, bang!" We didn't have time to move. There wasn't even the rapid "whuf-whuf-whuf" sound that you often get in the Alps when stonefall goes whizzing past. Definitely one of the close calls.

In reply to abseil:


Something similar having lunch below Ardverikie wall. However in this case it was a large nut dropped by a nervous 2nd.

In reply to Bob:


I'm planning future trips to really really flat places - I'm thinking Salisbury Plain, Norfolk, the Gobi Desert.....

In reply to prog99:


I hope the second bought you a pint or three... reminds me of Birdie num num's tale (was it true or a joke??) of nearly being hit by a falling helmet at the bottom of the Idwal Slabs...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


I´ve tested as realistic sample of gloves as one could expect and all reduce ones gripping ability of a rope, the smaller the diameter the worse the effect not suprisingly. Still a good idea though since rope burns are the critical danger belaying.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Good article. Should be read alongside this one:
http://www.friendsofyosar.org/safety/climbingSafety.html

In reply to abseil:


I have lost count of the number of climbers who get to the top of the climb, take off their helmet and then place it rounded side on the ground. Only takes a second to clip it to the harness and then it will never roll.

In reply to David Coley:



Wow! what an entertaining read!

In reply to Oogachooga:

A friend was winter climbing in the southern Highlands and his belayer (a mutual friend) passed out on the belay. She had given blood the day before and was slim, small woman (although as hard as nails as a climber!) so that might have been the reason they later decided!

In reply to UKC Articles:

Good article, good reminder. Just wondering where in the ranking comes trad gear pulling from bad / poor placement ??

In reply to UKC Articles:

Good article. I would add 3 things, two of which were already mentioned but point 3 has not been specifically been pointed out, even though many of the anecdotes in this thread are due to this reason.

1. Leader falls, especially on trad routes with gear ripping.
2. Fall from fixed anchor due to not threading correctly or because belayer went off belay.
3. The sudden change to the routine: Not paying attention that you are today climbing with a 50 m rope instead of the 60 m rope you always use. Linking together 2 rappels or doing a simul-rap to save some time since it's getting dark . Helpfully tying in to the middle of the rope so that a third person can try to toprope that route too. Placing your grigri next to your belay loop instead of at your back like you always do.

Having a clear routine is safe as you can focus on other things, but at the same time means you aren't paying a lot of attention to that issue. Know your routines and make a habit of making a strong mental note to yourself when you are deviating from routine.

In reply to Offwidth:


It's a bit more than speculation. People have had accidents like this. The problem is that if someone gets distracted half way through tying the knot with a figure of eight its possible to to leave the knot unfinished but loosely attached to your harness. You can't really do that with a bowline. If its not finished then it's completely untied in which case the rope would likely fall out of your harness before you leave the ground.

Personally I think it's daft trying to argue one knot as safer than the other anyway. It's possible to make mistakes with either knot. The important thing is to be aware of how things can go wrong and learn from the mistakes others have made.

In reply to Offwidth:


That's a very old way of tying a bowline. These days there are several methods of finishing a bowline that don't rely on a stopper knot at all. The end of the rope ends up coming out the front of the knot, just like a figure of eight, so if some people are using a stopper knot as a visual reminder that the knot is finished you can do that with a bowline just the same as a figure of eight.

Personally though I haven't used a stopper knot with bowlines for decades now.

In reply to stp:

Bang on. The never-ending discussion about which knot is safe and which isn't safe (they're all safe) is a distraction from the real lesson to take from "climber wasn't tied in correctly and decked", which is this: use the buddy system!

Which ever knot you're using, pay attention to what you're doing as you tie it (drop out of the conversation if necessary) and check your partner.

In reply to deepsoup:

Yet most climbers cant recognise a bowline issue and a large number won't know the criticality of the stopper knot on some variants. The bowline is a perfectly safe knot if used properly with climbing partners who understand it but it does have slightly more safety issues than a figure 8; which was my point in challenging stp who said the opposite. Its biggest benefit is its convenience as a sports climbing knot: arguably in the game where it is easiest to get complacent. Also bowlines tend to be used almost exclusively by experienced climbers so any compartive accident rates need to be discounted for a figure 8 to allow for more learner error in that group.

In reply to Offwidth:


I'm not sure learners are a bigger issue.
think about Hill and Long. Also beginners seem more paranoid.

In reply to David Coley:

I can assure you having taught hundreds of absent minded students from scratch that learning issues are a very real problem. Hill and Long just illustrate the best of us can let attention slip, which is why a buddy system is so useful. You might even argue its a classic bathtub distribution.... senility affecting the far end if you are lucky enough to still be climbing then.

In reply to JJL:

Really like this Yosemite link - very mordantly written.