UKC

Just watched the first few minutes of a US film in which a young girl tosses some litter on the floor. Her mother remonstrates with her saying, "Pick up your trash and bin it. You're not British!"

I was dumbfounded. We have a real problem with litter and flytipping in this country but I didn't think our reputation preceded us abroad. Are we really that much worse?

In reply to Tom Valentine:

That's a new one - usually in Hollywood, being British is a cover for inherent evil: we're the archetypal bad guys.

Mostly, in Europe and Asia we're boorish and drunk. We're not as hated as the Israelis or Russians, and not as rude as the Chinese, but we're still able to go places the Americans oughtn't.

Martin

In reply to Tom Valentine:
Everyone in nz assumes we have bad teeth! And we are piss heads!

In reply to Tom Valentine:

The British are renowned for being closet gays. Is it any wonder that we're viewed suspiciously?

You're obviously gay. I'm gay... My mum's gay, and so's my dad.

Given that sort of track record, is it really any wonder that we don't travel so well?... Of course, it's all open to misrepresentation by gay foreigners too; which is most of them.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

when at home im british, when abroad im very welsh, nobody seems to have a prejudice against wales, or just dont know where wales is

In reply to Tom Valentine:


Sounds completely implausible; all scapegoating is directed against groups which are widely identified; there would need to be something unusual about any U.S. individuals who have any perception at all of "British". Who were these people? Supposedly real? Fictional? Are you going to tell us?

In reply to silhouette:

Film is called "Enough Said", fiction, written by Nicola Holofcener. Her snide comment bugged me so much that I stopped watching after a few more minutes, which is silly as it gets excellent reviews.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

As far as I am concerned the litter problem in the UK is dire. When I compare the UK to many other countries we stand out as being dreadful. I travel a lot, and speak to many people from other countries, and although they all say they enjoy visiting the UK they are amazed at the amount of litter they see; and they can't see why it is there. We are no where near as bad as third world countries, but our standing in Europe is near to, if not the bottom, when it comes to litter. Comparing what I see in any of the scandinavian countries, or central european places we deserve the reputation we have. We have a severe lack of community and civic responsibility, and it shows. Drive along a motorway (autobahn) in germany and you won't see any litter in the central reservation, then drive along a motorway in the UK, it is covered in litter from fast food packaging to tab ends. How does it get there? We throw it out of the car. In other countries they take it home (inevitably to recycle it), or they put it in the bin at the next services. Mind you the services seem to have an abundance of 'drive-by bins', ie you don't even have to get out of the car to use them, just wind the window down and lob it into the massive hole. Maybe we need a rethink of how we deal with litter and how we educate the nation; as a whole.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

I thought they all just think we have bad teeth. Or real teeth as I see it.

I found littering particularly bad in Japan, not so bad in Tokyo, because an army of workers cleaned up everything, but in smaller towns and particularly in the mountains, it was horrendous.

In reply to Removed User:


There is way too much litter in the UK, when cycling you really notice it, even out in rural quiet areas - but if you include Finland in Scandinavia, it's far from utopia. Having lived there a long time I was always surprised about trash gets dumped, fly tipping was a huge problem where I used to live on the edge of the Helsinki conurbation. It used to piss me off no end. This would end up as ranting on my blog! http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/crapping-on-paradise.html http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/kill-your-television.html http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/keep-finland-tidy.html

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Didn't Thatcher come back from a foreign trip when PM and decide that litter in UK was atrocious compared to wherever she had been and started an anti litter campaign? I don't really remember it being that bad...but maybe it was?

In reply to Removed User:


Alternatively go to any motorway rest area in France, Belgium or Germany that has 'no facilities' and have a look at the amount of shit and tissues scattered around in the bushes......

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


You're thinking of the 'Falklands Campaign'. It wasn't so much about litter as the race of the people dropping it I seem to recall.

In reply to andyathome:

Okay, I'll go and take a look tomorrow.

In reply to Removed User:

"but our standing in Europe is near to, if not the bottom, when it comes to litter."

I'm thinking you're never been to Greece or Cyprus. In comparison Brits are at best talented amateurs.

In reply to Removed User:



I cant agree. As someone from Czech I find Britain pretty clean. I se no difference between Britain and Germany for example. More east and more south it gets much worse. I saw garbage trucks emptying load to the river in Durmitor National Park in Montenegro and my friend saw the same thing in southern Italy. You feel like at the dump in some places down there

In reply to Willi Crater:

I did qualify my point by saying central europe, I don't class Greece or Cyprus as central europe. But I'm okay if you do, in which case your point is totally valid.

In reply to pavelk:

...as above

In reply to Removed User:


Interesting. I had no idea Britain was so bad.

I do once remember seeing someone toss something out of a car window while waiting to pull onto the main road. Both my friend and myself were truly shocked. It doesn't seem like you catch people in the act very often to me. My friend was so outraged she picked up the litter and handed it back to the driver saying something like, 'You dropped this'. Good way of making the point I thought.

In reply to stp:

While I was teaching in China,several locals told me that the Brits were the poodles of the Americans.

In reply to Removed User:


But they are disagreeing em with you!

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Unfortunately I was subjected to "Bangkok Airport" yesterday, if this is what foreigners see of Brits, god help our reputation abroad!

In reply to Removed User:


Does Spain count as central Europe because I believe the attitude to littering is worse there than the UK, obviously the population density is far less so it may not looks bad if you are travelling around rural areas and comparing it to inner cities in the UK but in my opinion the Spanish don't hold back from dumping their shit (literally and figuratively) anywhere.

Likewise, my wife was moved to comment on how much graffiti and litter the was in Rome as compared to home and we weren't exactly touring the ghettos there

In reply to stp:

I thought the UK was horrific for litter when I first arrived here, and well recall seeing a driver sweeping all the crap off the floor of his car on to the road. Compared to NZ or Japan its pretty filthy here.

However, having just returned from Africa, London seemed spotless. Not sure if this means there has been some kind of improvement in the last decade or if I just re-calibrated my filthometer.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

Pity really as the actual Bankgok Airport is nice, and Bangkok itself is remarkably clean. But the dregs of British society that wash up there leave a lot to be desired.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

I think you may all be misinterpreting the "you're not British" thing. I worked for an American company a couple of years ago and occasionally had to put US guests up for a weekend or so. I was often told that the US perception of British life is very coloured by Merchant Ivory films and TV series such as Brideshead Revisited and Jeeves & Wooster. Maybe the implication was that the litterer didn't have an army of domestic staff to pick up after them?

In reply to Clarence:


Reminds me of when I was on a work trip to India once and one of my Indian colleagues there asked me how many servants I had

Then I moved to England 4 years ago, I wasn't able to find bins for litter. I lived in few provinces in south England and some towns didn't had even a single bin.

Now I live in Westminster and it's a bit better. Where are bins on the streets and recycling waste at home is more or less convenient. Still restaurants trow out bags full of litter on the street each evening and those bags stay where for hours. Some are not picked up until next morning. Sometimes they are getting kicked by teens or ripped by animals and rubbish is flying on the streets. Can't imagine something like that in Berlin.

If I am drinking beer in Green Park in the evening it's likely that very few bins will be full and litter will be scatter around those. Normally in that situation I would carry my empty bottles home, but most people I see don't.

It is quite bad..

In reply to Removed User:


But clearly not so far away as France

In reply to Willi Crater:


+1

Whilst I am disgusted with the amount of litter in the UK, a lot of Europe is little better, and a fair bit worse. Spain in particular is covered in rubbish, it must look better in the sunshine than it does in the UK.

In reply to David Martin:


Interesting that mention Japan. Spotless in Tokyo, largely due to the army of people employed to keep it clean. Smaller towns have plenty litter and the littering in the countryside was pretty disgraceful in my experience.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

My German g/f loves the north of England to bits, but is amazed at the amount of litter. If you want an example, take the train from Huddersfield to Manchester - as soon as you get anywhere near a built up area, the amount of litter, rubbish and junk which people have chucked over their back garden walls is staggering! Mind you, her pet hate is farm yards - she firmly believes that there's an EU grant for collecting junk and scattering it as widely as possible, and that they get a bonus if they can cover as much of the farm yard in mud and shit as possible.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

I recently got back from Brussels get away from the main few streets and the place is dump. Rubbish all over the place made Liverpool look spotless. Never stepped around so many bin bags/ ripped bags in the street before.

One thing I have noticed is that European cities suffer from graffiti to a greater extent than UK cities. Italian and Eastern European cities seem the worst though was really shocked in Spain (Granada) with the amount of graffiti on prominent and important buildings in the city centre. I have never seen that in the UK.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Italy is terrible. Walk down the street in Pisa and you'll find it disgusting.

In reply to TobyA:


Yes, sadly. Out in the sticks(ish) the bigger the road the worse it is, although it improves quite a bit around the posher areas. Went for a 80km ride yesterday in East Hants: the A roads and bigger B roads were truly grim, as if someone had driven by with a hose connected to a bin van that sprayed a continuous stream of degraded plastic, beer cans and crisp packets onto the verge. Around some of the rougher places, Bordon for ex, or Oakhanger, the v minor rural roads were grim, but around well-heeled Preston Candover, Lasham, Bighton or Lower Froyle these small roads are much better, Swiss even. Of course, once the roadside vegetation starts growing much of this will be hidden, apart from the rubbish on the verges of beech woods, where it'll still really stick out, particularly white bags tossed a few metres in, but at the moment it's pretty unpleasant. I dare say it would be pointless ringing up the council.

In reply to zimpara:

The ventian canals when I last went were pretty minging and full of rubbish

In reply to felt:

I live in a small village which is unfortunately exactly the distance people who have bought a takeaway need to finish their meal and chuck the packaging out of the car window. As we walk or cycle a lot from home, we get to see the full effect of this in the verges, which are disgusting. And presumably lots of these people live locally, but don't give a toss about their own environment. If walking we take bags and pick up what we can but it is depressing that we are fighting a losing battle against people's slovenliness.

In reply to pamph:

I hear you. It's pitiful. Where you from? The good news is that the other day I thought to hell with it and rang the council. They said they'd get their contractor people to clear it up. Will they? Who knows.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Two things get me about our littering

1) The people who go to some effort to fly-tip - driving a mile or two up some unpaved track before opening the door and avalanching their crap. Surely it is just as easy to take it to the frigging dump?

2) The people who enjoy the nice open spaces in our city on any given sunny evening, and at the end of their evening just stand up brush themselves down and walk off leaving the area strewn with bottles, cans, instant barbecues and supermarket bags. The inability to think "Oh I came here because it was a nice spot, perhaps I'll make an effort to clean it up" totally baffles me. Sadly I walk through one such spot to work and thus get reminded of this every damn day in the summer!

In reply to stp:

It is very sad how much the behaviour of a sector of British society has declined in the last 30 or 40 years. This is one of the things that keeps me forever travelling. These slobs not only behave very a badly abroad, they do this every Friday and Saturday night in British towns and cities while the police look on.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

The U.K. is a shit tip. Plenty of immigrants with even worse environmental outlook than the natives though.

D

In reply to Dauphin:

I actually don't think its that bad here. In India it's fully Normal to chuck a carrier bagfull of rubbish out of the train window !!

In reply to John Stainforth:

Couple of weeks ago we were driving along the main road crossing dartmoor and passed a lay by strewn with litter and complete with a bbq still burning. Could hardly believe what we're seeing.

Drove about 100m past but just couldn't leave it like that so turned around and then spent about 15 minutes picking it all up. Cans bottles paper plastics...and two bbqs to put out.

We drove slowly past every car park for a few miles to see if we could find the tw*ts, which of course we couldn't. Stupid really, what did we expect to see, someone with ketchup on their cheeks or a bbq fork in their hands....!

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thats what I was refering to.

D

In reply to Bobling:


There was a massive pile of building rubbish in one of the hard parking bays below Stanage Apparent North yesterday. Exactly what you say - surely it would have been easier to take it to a dump than all the way out there?

In reply to TobyA:

It's rogue tradesmen. They're supposed to pay to dispose at council facilities.... they can get away with it a few times but vans have there registrations logged by tip staff, so they'll avoid going.

There's a small army of retired 'gents' out there who get paid a small amount to tip stuff on behalf of the trades.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

There is some conservation work going on right by those parking spots currently, so I really hope someone saw who did it, but I suppose they will have gone at night when no one is around.

In reply to ow arm:


People do know where Wales is... and they do have a saying which involves welsh people and sheep (kind of akin to what they say about people from nz)... put ones peculiar sexual preferences are not really a thing to discuss in public .

In reply to felt:

We stay in the north east of Scotland which would be a nicer place to live if it weren't for the litter dropping plonkers. And the fly tippers. I could go on but it is too depressing. However, hasn't Cameron said that the unemployed youth of the country are going to have to work for the council? Maybe they could become litter pickers! Aye, right......

In reply to Bobling:


I think MacDonalds has a lot to answer for.

The idea that you can go in, eat, and not have to clear up the mess after, possibly filters down to people in the street being able to say "Street cleaners are paid to clean up this stuff".

In reply to zimpara:


The graffiti is even worse than all the litter. Take the train to Florence from Pisa!
Incidently, I walk my dog along the A38 slip road near where I live and beautiful Devon is a joke. I live in a small rural hamlet that is also a cul de sac and still the road is festooned with litter. The b*st* rds even stop to cr*p in my garden!

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Around my rural neck of the woods, the amount of litter drops off with distance from the local gypsy camp to a background level. It seems that there are plenty of people who litter and either the gypsy types are a lot worse, or the general population chucks stuff out of their cars near to the gypsy camps.

And yes, you notice it a lot more when you cycle.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Generally, even though like everyone else I'm baffled and disgusted by the litter on our verges, a thought from McLewin's Monte Viso sometimes comes to mind. He's in Zermatt or somewhere and notes the signs forbidding the dropping of the litter. How bizarre, he muses, that the authorities are so uptight about this when the large-scale despoilation of nature, viz ski lifts, access roads and all the accompanying detritus of the tourist industry, are acceptable. So, as I'm tootling along the minor roads in OCD mode noting every damned bit of litter -- and how clearly white stands out when wearing orange-tinted glasses -- rather than enjoying the ride, I try to think, Well, to blazes with worrying about other people's litter when the very road I'm on is litter on a mass scale. A perspective-shift, if you will.

Snag is, this line of thought doesn't convince me or shut that raucous OCD demon up for very long.

In reply to felt:

But it is reassuring to know that whilst we might have a poor reputation abroad the real culprits are.....gypsies and immigrants!

I feel better already.