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Look in the right place and the internet seems awash with what seem to me to be pointless bouldering videos. The type I'm thinking of typically feature unknown climber/s making insignificant ascents of a random selection of obscure problems.
The essence of any decent video, in fact its purpose, is surely to tell a story of some kind. With bouldering videos this is typically about the climber or the problem or maybe a climbing area. A great little recent example was the one showing the youngest ascent of Careless Torque at Stanage. Perhaps the 'youngest ascent' claim was a bit contrived but the video conveyed both the difficulties of this very famous and classic problem and experience of the climber really well I thought.
But do a search for bouldering on Vimeo or Youtube and there seems to be no end of these pointless kind of videos. There's no narrative, either in the video or on the page, and I often end up wondering what it is I'm supposed to be watching and why. I feel I have no idea why the person made the video in the first place.
Interestingly there seems to be no equivalent when it comes to route climbers. Is that some boulderers feel the need to prove what they've done or else no one will believe them? Or are these vids some kind of misguided attempt to get sponsorship perhaps?
The essence of any decent video, in fact its purpose, is surely to tell a story of some kind. With bouldering videos this is typically about the climber or the problem or maybe a climbing area. A great little recent example was the one showing the youngest ascent of Careless Torque at Stanage. Perhaps the 'youngest ascent' claim was a bit contrived but the video conveyed both the difficulties of this very famous and classic problem and experience of the climber really well I thought.
But do a search for bouldering on Vimeo or Youtube and there seems to be no end of these pointless kind of videos. There's no narrative, either in the video or on the page, and I often end up wondering what it is I'm supposed to be watching and why. I feel I have no idea why the person made the video in the first place.
Interestingly there seems to be no equivalent when it comes to route climbers. Is that some boulderers feel the need to prove what they've done or else no one will believe them? Or are these vids some kind of misguided attempt to get sponsorship perhaps?
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In reply to stp:
Maybe they are just personal documents, and hosted on youtube/vimeo for storage or sharing with their friends?
People upload enough inane stuff on both sites, so no reason why people wouldn't post them, its just what people do these days I guess.
Maybe they are just personal documents, and hosted on youtube/vimeo for storage or sharing with their friends?
People upload enough inane stuff on both sites, so no reason why people wouldn't post them, its just what people do these days I guess.
Post edited at 10:41
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In reply to stp:
Bit of a tangent, but I've more than once been witness to a situation where person X is having a hard time with route Y so they Google it, watch the video of someone sending the route and then get back on with some new beta gleaned from the film and send their project.
Aside from that, I definitely agree with what Steve says - it's a very easy way to share a video with all your mates and, hey, if someone else wants to watch it too, so be it.
It's also just another facet of the modern vogue for documenting ones life on the internet. It started a long while back for computer nerds, became a bit more mainstream with sites like Myspace and others I forget and finally became the institution with Facebook. A hundred million unwatchable videos on youtube and vimeo are just the next extension of documenting our lives online.
In the end, as a great man once said: "the Internet is almost diametrically opposed to the notion of quality control, in recent years it's been a lot easier to just assume everything's shit until it can prove itself otherwise". Which is why we have UKC and other websites to point us at the good videos
Bit of a tangent, but I've more than once been witness to a situation where person X is having a hard time with route Y so they Google it, watch the video of someone sending the route and then get back on with some new beta gleaned from the film and send their project.
Aside from that, I definitely agree with what Steve says - it's a very easy way to share a video with all your mates and, hey, if someone else wants to watch it too, so be it.
It's also just another facet of the modern vogue for documenting ones life on the internet. It started a long while back for computer nerds, became a bit more mainstream with sites like Myspace and others I forget and finally became the institution with Facebook. A hundred million unwatchable videos on youtube and vimeo are just the next extension of documenting our lives online.
In the end, as a great man once said: "the Internet is almost diametrically opposed to the notion of quality control, in recent years it's been a lot easier to just assume everything's shit until it can prove itself otherwise". Which is why we have UKC and other websites to point us at the good videos
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In reply to henwardian:
Interesting answers. Thanks.
Any thoughts on why it's almost all bouldering as opposed to lead climbing? It's clearly easier to film a boulder problem but with a telephoto lens plenty of route ascents could still be recorded fairly easily. At places like Stanage it's really easy. But route climbers never seem to bother.
Interesting answers. Thanks.
Any thoughts on why it's almost all bouldering as opposed to lead climbing? It's clearly easier to film a boulder problem but with a telephoto lens plenty of route ascents could still be recorded fairly easily. At places like Stanage it's really easy. But route climbers never seem to bother.
In reply to stp:
Gopro and the like is just more suited to filming plonked on a tripod and aimed at a boulder i'm guessing.
And to be honest, footage of a lead climb would most likely be just as dull as a bouldering vid..
..but longer.
Gopro and the like is just more suited to filming plonked on a tripod and aimed at a boulder i'm guessing.
And to be honest, footage of a lead climb would most likely be just as dull as a bouldering vid..
..but longer.
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In reply to stp:
Because when you are leading your pal is holding the rope rather than a camera.
> Any thoughts on why it's almost all bouldering as opposed to lead climbing?
Because when you are leading your pal is holding the rope rather than a camera.
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In reply to stp:
Because you can be on your own and film yourself bouldering - if there's 2 of you route climbing, the other person needs to belay, and due to the nature of routes it will usually involve some camera work as you can't fit the whole route in one frame... so takes at least 3 people to film a route. And a route can take ages to finish, so the 3rd person also needs to be keen.
Possibly.
Because you can be on your own and film yourself bouldering - if there's 2 of you route climbing, the other person needs to belay, and due to the nature of routes it will usually involve some camera work as you can't fit the whole route in one frame... so takes at least 3 people to film a route. And a route can take ages to finish, so the 3rd person also needs to be keen.
Possibly.
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Aren't you forgetting about the rest of the entourage that are usually in attendance?
In response to the OP:
"Look in the right place and the internet seems awash with what seem to me to be pointless bouldering videos."
Er.. look in the wrong place perhaps..
The OP has failed to mention the awful music that we usually have to endure - which I remember was thankfully and refreshingly absent from the excellent videos of Careless.
A slightly more worrying aspect of the videos, and of course this is true of all media, is the potential they have to normalise certain bad habits. You know the culprits - tick marks, excessive chalk/brushing, starting the problem 15' off the deck, from the top of a stack of pads. Admittedly, that's a lot of pads, but that's another job for the entourage.
> Because when you are leading your pal is holding the rope rather than a camera.
Aren't you forgetting about the rest of the entourage that are usually in attendance?
In response to the OP:
"Look in the right place and the internet seems awash with what seem to me to be pointless bouldering videos."
Er.. look in the wrong place perhaps..
The OP has failed to mention the awful music that we usually have to endure - which I remember was thankfully and refreshingly absent from the excellent videos of Careless.
A slightly more worrying aspect of the videos, and of course this is true of all media, is the potential they have to normalise certain bad habits. You know the culprits - tick marks, excessive chalk/brushing, starting the problem 15' off the deck, from the top of a stack of pads. Admittedly, that's a lot of pads, but that's another job for the entourage.
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In reply to stp:
posted loads of what you call pointless bouldering and climbing videos, just to show my family what I am up to at the moment. maybe people should make them private, so they wont bother you??
posted loads of what you call pointless bouldering and climbing videos, just to show my family what I am up to at the moment. maybe people should make them private, so they wont bother you??
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In reply to stp:
I've often wondered the same thing when walking past groups of skaters filming each other - who exactly is going to watch this? I think the putting it up there for mates/personal enjoyment/life documenting is the right answer.
I've often wondered the same thing when walking past groups of skaters filming each other - who exactly is going to watch this? I think the putting it up there for mates/personal enjoyment/life documenting is the right answer.
The old guys not getting it thread.
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In reply to stp:
i can't see why the filming is much fun, but I do quite often search for videos of problems I'm going to try or have just failed on, for beta. Some are good, others are crap.
i can't see why the filming is much fun, but I do quite often search for videos of problems I'm going to try or have just failed on, for beta. Some are good, others are crap.
In reply to Michael Ryan:
The self-appointed hip old guy poking fun at similar old guys thread?
Anyway I see no harm and it makes perfect sense to most who use such clips. The internet is full of shit videos, many of which get millions of views, so a bit of climbing with some potential useful beta is nearly always good. Inappropriate tick marks and similar bad habits only get to make an entry on a wall of shame. There were some fun links on pointless filmed boulder problems a while back ont'other channel.
The self-appointed hip old guy poking fun at similar old guys thread?
Anyway I see no harm and it makes perfect sense to most who use such clips. The internet is full of shit videos, many of which get millions of views, so a bit of climbing with some potential useful beta is nearly always good. Inappropriate tick marks and similar bad habits only get to make an entry on a wall of shame. There were some fun links on pointless filmed boulder problems a while back ont'other channel.
Post edited at 19:38
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In reply to stp:
I would like a link to a really bad one - one that defines the genre.
Ideally it will be like an instructional youtube video of someone filming themselves opening a new micro desktop usb speaker say - mulling over the eccentricities and features in minute detail.
I would like a link to a really bad one - one that defines the genre.
Ideally it will be like an instructional youtube video of someone filming themselves opening a new micro desktop usb speaker say - mulling over the eccentricities and features in minute detail.
In reply to Durbs:
I can certainly agree that filming bouldering is easier than a lead climb. For that reason I'd expect there to be fewer vids rather than none. Then again I think lead climbing (sport + trad) population is probably much larger than the bouldering one so....
But from I've seen there is pretty much no equivalent of lead climbs at all - except of course when someone does an important FA or repeat or something significant. In general I think lead climbing is easier to make interesting just because the whole exposure and size of the crags is intrinsically more spectacular than bouldering.
Also it seems that some of these videos, although vacuous, are technically extremely well made. Having done a little video editing myself I know how time consuming it can be. Just a few minutes footage can take a whole day to edit. The short video I made was just for my mates. But for that reason I never published it on the web. Instead I had my friends round to watch it which seems a far better, more sociable way to share it if that is what it is for.
I can certainly agree that filming bouldering is easier than a lead climb. For that reason I'd expect there to be fewer vids rather than none. Then again I think lead climbing (sport + trad) population is probably much larger than the bouldering one so....
But from I've seen there is pretty much no equivalent of lead climbs at all - except of course when someone does an important FA or repeat or something significant. In general I think lead climbing is easier to make interesting just because the whole exposure and size of the crags is intrinsically more spectacular than bouldering.
Also it seems that some of these videos, although vacuous, are technically extremely well made. Having done a little video editing myself I know how time consuming it can be. Just a few minutes footage can take a whole day to edit. The short video I made was just for my mates. But for that reason I never published it on the web. Instead I had my friends round to watch it which seems a far better, more sociable way to share it if that is what it is for.
In reply to stp:
99% of everything is shit - didn't you know?
Film yourself on a pointless boulder and you get about 20 seconds of footage. Short sharp record of the ascent even if it is pointless for 99.99% of the population at large, but of possible vague interest to your mates and/or someone trying the same prob.
Film yourself on a route and you will have a crap video that wont possibly capture the experience or be even vaguely interesting to anyone. Even your mates. 20 minutes of someone struggling up a 12 meter Gritstone VS including 5 minutes fiddling a nut in, 5 minutes stroking the rock, going up then down before going for it....no-one, not even the person who did it would be interested. Much like this post I guess.
99% of everything is shit - didn't you know?
Film yourself on a pointless boulder and you get about 20 seconds of footage. Short sharp record of the ascent even if it is pointless for 99.99% of the population at large, but of possible vague interest to your mates and/or someone trying the same prob.
Film yourself on a route and you will have a crap video that wont possibly capture the experience or be even vaguely interesting to anyone. Even your mates. 20 minutes of someone struggling up a 12 meter Gritstone VS including 5 minutes fiddling a nut in, 5 minutes stroking the rock, going up then down before going for it....no-one, not even the person who did it would be interested. Much like this post I guess.
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In reply to stp:
I think the line between pointless bouldering video and meaningful bouldering video is so subjective as to not even exist.
I think the line between pointless bouldering video and meaningful bouldering video is so subjective as to not even exist.
In reply to stp:
This was my favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&v...
Lots more here (UKC posters shouln't be scared by the sheer expertise and oddball humour on view):
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6407.0.html
This was my favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&v...
Lots more here (UKC posters shouln't be scared by the sheer expertise and oddball humour on view):
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6407.0.html
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In reply to stp:
Hi,
I am presuming you began this thread partly because of some of the videos I have shown people on here. I do understand what you are saying and there are some interesting points of view here. How about I tell you why I make videos to add to this.
I really bloody enjoy the whole process of doing it. I enjoy the thinking, climbing (obviously), filming and editing of it. I do not film everything I do by any means but only the problems that I think deserved to be, have some meaning to me, may be of (slight/great) interest to others or just look good. I personally love to watch other peoples 'pointless' videos, especially before I go to a new area to get a feel for the type of climbing there and just to get excited to try things there. At the moment, there is a lot of new things going down on Portland and feels like an exciting time to be part of. So, we get on to why people post the 'pointless' videos online and then subsequently here. I want people to see things that I obsess over and love. And I really don't understand why people even watch a video that they probably have no interest in, just don't bother. If I saw a video of someone aid climbing in Scotland, I would not watch it as it would not interest me. But I would still prefer to watch that than 99.9% on the internet in general. To reply to some of your other points: why does it matter if the climber is unknown? Surly we don't just have to watch pros? Also, the ascent is insignificant to you but not everyone. I, and im sure others, don't make them to prove anything to anyone, just like doing it, and it is certainly not for sponsorship (why would someone sponsor me)?!?!
Anyway, hope that answers some of your quandaries from my point of view.
With regards to why bouldering and not roped stuff, I would agree with the posts here. Harder to do and potentially even more boring and pointless.
Hi,
I am presuming you began this thread partly because of some of the videos I have shown people on here. I do understand what you are saying and there are some interesting points of view here. How about I tell you why I make videos to add to this.
I really bloody enjoy the whole process of doing it. I enjoy the thinking, climbing (obviously), filming and editing of it. I do not film everything I do by any means but only the problems that I think deserved to be, have some meaning to me, may be of (slight/great) interest to others or just look good. I personally love to watch other peoples 'pointless' videos, especially before I go to a new area to get a feel for the type of climbing there and just to get excited to try things there. At the moment, there is a lot of new things going down on Portland and feels like an exciting time to be part of. So, we get on to why people post the 'pointless' videos online and then subsequently here. I want people to see things that I obsess over and love. And I really don't understand why people even watch a video that they probably have no interest in, just don't bother. If I saw a video of someone aid climbing in Scotland, I would not watch it as it would not interest me. But I would still prefer to watch that than 99.9% on the internet in general. To reply to some of your other points: why does it matter if the climber is unknown? Surly we don't just have to watch pros? Also, the ascent is insignificant to you but not everyone. I, and im sure others, don't make them to prove anything to anyone, just like doing it, and it is certainly not for sponsorship (why would someone sponsor me)?!?!
Anyway, hope that answers some of your quandaries from my point of view.
With regards to why bouldering and not roped stuff, I would agree with the posts here. Harder to do and potentially even more boring and pointless.
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In reply to stp:
I wish people who post stuff like this would just get to the point quickly and say they hate bouldering and be done with it.
I wish people who post stuff like this would just get to the point quickly and say they hate bouldering and be done with it.
Post edited at 21:12
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In reply to Offwidth:
Funny indeed.
My whole time favorite stupidest problem - and therefore video - is Le Crocodile, in Isatis. The use of the pad (and its placement!) make it even more entertaining:
youtube.com/watch?v=F5gvgsemop8&
I'm must admit that I'm proud to have actually 'climbed' it :-D
Funny indeed.
My whole time favorite stupidest problem - and therefore video - is Le Crocodile, in Isatis. The use of the pad (and its placement!) make it even more entertaining:
youtube.com/watch?v=F5gvgsemop8&
I'm must admit that I'm proud to have actually 'climbed' it :-D
Post edited at 11:45
In reply to Pierre Fuentes:
But bouldering isn't climbing, or even 'climbing'. The whole point of the bouldering section is so that STP can identify filthy boulderers and tell them off.
But bouldering isn't climbing, or even 'climbing'. The whole point of the bouldering section is so that STP can identify filthy boulderers and tell them off.
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In reply to davidbeynon:
Totally agree. We should be banned from "UKclimbing" (and hillwalking) altogether
Totally agree. We should be banned from "UKclimbing" (and hillwalking) altogether
In reply to Pierre Fuentes:
It's a great problem one that I can proudly say I've failed on so far, despite trying hard; one day it will be mine
It's a great problem one that I can proudly say I've failed on so far, despite trying hard; one day it will be mine
In reply to Offwidth:
Amazing, now 500 people have watched it!
I love lowballs.
> This was my favorite:
Amazing, now 500 people have watched it!
I love lowballs.
In reply to stp:
When I was researching bouldering spots where I might take a newbie and my daughter bouldering such videos were very useful to show what the rock was like, the grades and the area around. Its good to see ordinary folk doing lower mortals climbs. Showed me the nature of what we were travelling to see/do. It also helped the newbie see how 'real ' people climb, not footage of the pro's but people with slightly better skills than her, ideas for her to use to improve. Whats wrong with that?
Finally, nobodies forcing you to watch them. Its like a complaint about whats on the telly, switch it off or change channel.
When I was researching bouldering spots where I might take a newbie and my daughter bouldering such videos were very useful to show what the rock was like, the grades and the area around. Its good to see ordinary folk doing lower mortals climbs. Showed me the nature of what we were travelling to see/do. It also helped the newbie see how 'real ' people climb, not footage of the pro's but people with slightly better skills than her, ideas for her to use to improve. Whats wrong with that?
Finally, nobodies forcing you to watch them. Its like a complaint about whats on the telly, switch it off or change channel.
In reply to robin mueller:
Great name.
A great low ball is not the same as a contrived sit start of course!
I think that what the OP was getting at with this thread, was that a lot of bouldering videos which would otherwise be great to watch, amusing, informative, fun, inspiring etc etc, are overproduced, with what is sometimes - watch out, some personal opinion here - what I'd refer to as a "nauseating slickness" that often belies their content.
By "Pointless" STP is probably drawing attention to the promise/disappointment.
In reply to Rob Mueller, the Hugs for the Soul video could have been accompanied by some arty preamble and dippy music. But it wasn't, and far better for it. You even get to hear the wind! Fun, entertaining and great to share. The crocodile vid is the same - although surely you're cheating doing it from the mat !
Some of the recent footage of Careless was similarly so much better for it's simplicity.
Well, that's what I think!
Great name.
A great low ball is not the same as a contrived sit start of course!
I think that what the OP was getting at with this thread, was that a lot of bouldering videos which would otherwise be great to watch, amusing, informative, fun, inspiring etc etc, are overproduced, with what is sometimes - watch out, some personal opinion here - what I'd refer to as a "nauseating slickness" that often belies their content.
By "Pointless" STP is probably drawing attention to the promise/disappointment.
In reply to Rob Mueller, the Hugs for the Soul video could have been accompanied by some arty preamble and dippy music. But it wasn't, and far better for it. You even get to hear the wind! Fun, entertaining and great to share. The crocodile vid is the same - although surely you're cheating doing it from the mat !
Some of the recent footage of Careless was similarly so much better for it's simplicity.
Well, that's what I think!
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In reply to sim.monkey:
Hi and thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Not at all. This was definitely not directed at anyone specifically. And I've no idea which videos belong to which climbers/editors.
I totally agree with that. But some of the vids I'm thinking of cover different crags and areas and its not even clear which are which. If say there was a video of, for instance, Almscliffe boulder problems then that would be the point of the video and I wouldn't consider it pointless. Its the equivalent of a magazine article on a climbing area.
The problem is with a video, unlike a photo, you have to watch at least a few minutes of it to realise its something you have no interest in. If its just purely a personal log of someone's ascents for their mates then it would be good if that was made clear from the beginning if it's posted on a public site.
Not at all. But that would be one possible point to a video. It's inspiring and we learn from watching top climbers.
Sure but a good video, in my mind, would make clear to anyone watching why the ascent is considered significant. If I get to the end of a video still not appreciating the significance of what I watched is then that's a failure of the video. It's main message has not been communicated. In most cases it I suspect it would only take a few lines of text or narrative. For instance "this was Fred Blogg's first ever 6b on gritstone" or 'the new beta for Whatever problem" tells me all I need to know. I know the point of the video. In fact if that was written at the start of a video I'd know whether its something I have an interest in before watching.
Hi and thanks for the thoughtful reply.
> I am presuming you began this thread partly because of some of the videos I have shown people on here
Not at all. This was definitely not directed at anyone specifically. And I've no idea which videos belong to which climbers/editors.
> I personally love to watch other peoples 'pointless' videos, especially before I go to a new area to get a feel for the type of climbing there and just to get excited to try things there
I totally agree with that. But some of the vids I'm thinking of cover different crags and areas and its not even clear which are which. If say there was a video of, for instance, Almscliffe boulder problems then that would be the point of the video and I wouldn't consider it pointless. Its the equivalent of a magazine article on a climbing area.
> I really don't understand why people even watch a video that they probably have no interest in, just don't bother.
The problem is with a video, unlike a photo, you have to watch at least a few minutes of it to realise its something you have no interest in. If its just purely a personal log of someone's ascents for their mates then it would be good if that was made clear from the beginning if it's posted on a public site.
> why does it matter if the climber is unknown? Surly we don't just have to watch pros?
Not at all. But that would be one possible point to a video. It's inspiring and we learn from watching top climbers.
> Also, the ascent is insignificant to you but not everyone.
Sure but a good video, in my mind, would make clear to anyone watching why the ascent is considered significant. If I get to the end of a video still not appreciating the significance of what I watched is then that's a failure of the video. It's main message has not been communicated. In most cases it I suspect it would only take a few lines of text or narrative. For instance "this was Fred Blogg's first ever 6b on gritstone" or 'the new beta for Whatever problem" tells me all I need to know. I know the point of the video. In fact if that was written at the start of a video I'd know whether its something I have an interest in before watching.
In reply to DAVETHOMAS90:
"the awful music that we usually have to endure"
Dave you grumpy git.
See you soon, Si.
"the awful music that we usually have to endure"
Dave you grumpy git.
See you soon, Si.
In reply to Offwidth:
"This was my favorite: youtube.com/watch?v=XkrGKolB6ZA&"
Ha ha, that's really funny.
Si.
"This was my favorite: youtube.com/watch?v=XkrGKolB6ZA&"
Ha ha, that's really funny.
Si.
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