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Always hungry!

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 katyc 10 Feb 2015
After some advice on nutrition please.
Currently training for the Paris Marathon 12th April. Run about 4-5 x week , between 2 mile pre work ( up at 5am ) to 18 / 20 miles. Ever since I upped to 16 + miles I'm constantly hungry, whether a running day or not. I wake up hungry, go to bed hungry. Typical days food is : Breakfast : porridge ( made with water ), blueberries and honey. Coffee. Lunch : Soup. Fruit. Tea : Some sort of chicken or salmon based meal. Snacks will include fruit, probably a protein or fruit bar and probably a soy milk / banana and peanut butter smoothie. Hot chocolate before bed. Peanut butter is my downfall, along with Costa.
I've lost 2 stone in the past year. Keen to lose 7lb more but am beginning to put it on!
Any ideas on what to eat/ feel full/ have enough energy for 20 mile runs and all whilst trying to lose weight massively appreciated.
Thanks!
 girlymonkey 10 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

I'd add protein to breakfast. I have an egg every morning, and it keeps me going really well. You can add it to porridge with no real difference to taste, just whisk it up and it mix it through with your water (although a little milk may help on the feeling full thing too). I have been eating a lot of brown rice recently, it keeps me much more full than white rice.

Are you sure that the weight you are gaining is not muscle? I'd go more on body fat than weight.
 im off 10 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:
Good book on this: Racing Weight. For endurance atheletes and how to eat better and control weight. Written by matt fitzgerald. It explains that to loose wt you need to not necessarily eat less but eat better or possibly more so you can perform better ....loads in it.
Im always hungry too.
Post edited at 22:40
 Stig 10 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

You're possibly doing too much - my mate is training for Paris too (I suspect he'll do 2:45) and I don't think his long runs are much more than 14-16 miles at mo. I thought you weren't supposed to do more than a couple of 20+m towards the end?

Soup for lunch???? Are you running in the afternoon/evening? If so this will leave you desperately hungry (I know because if I have a light lunch and ride home I will feel hollow when I get back). Eat more carbs at lunch. Ideally a proper hot meal.

Eat soon after running - even a bowl of cereal/banana etc.

Why do you make porridge with water? Stick full fat milk in it - you'll feel fuller for longer.

Forget losing weight when training. Look to the long term and lose weight steadily and sustainably.

Sorry if this sounds blunt but I think the answer is staring you in the face. Take it from Kilian Jornet: he says eat what you want if you're running most days (and his luxury is Nutella apparently!)
abseil 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Obviously I'm no expert [ho-ho], but perhaps you're not eating enough for your active lifestyle. Not enough information in your OP though, questions to ask yourself, are you overweight? Just right? How many calories a day are you eating - seriously, with such an active life, I would watch calorie intake.

Again - what do I know, but surely constantly hungry, or thirsty, might be signals from body to brain telling us to eat/ drink?
 Roadrunner2 11 Feb 2015
In reply to Stig:

> You're possibly doing too much - my mate is training for Paris too (I suspect he'll do 2:45) and I don't think his long runs are much more than 14-16 miles at mo. I thought you weren't supposed to do more than a couple of 20+m towards the end?

what he says.. I'd back of the long runs. what time are you aiming for?

There was a good article I saw recently about long runs being too much for many people.. actually 90mins - 2 hours is te
the key time frame to get the aerobic gains, the rest may help the head but plenty of 90-120 mins runs will be spot..

I do maybe 5 long runs but run 12-16 miles 3 - 4 times a week.

If i'm doing a long run in the evening I'll eat slightly more for lunch, maybe a sandwich and a muffin, then about an hour before have an energy bar or banana.. and then take a gel or two if running 16-18 miles.
XXXX 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Eat more
1
 Ally23 11 Feb 2015
In reply to XXXX:

Add in more healthy fats coconut oil, nuts, avocado, nut butters. fats slow absorption and lower the gi of the whole meal keeping you fuller longer
Moley 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

You haven't said how long you have been running for, I presume the full year you have been losing weight? Nor what your daytime job is, manual or sedentary?

If you have already lost 2 stone you are clearly burning more than you are consuming and the upping of mileage is probably causing more muscle (hence weight gain), forget the scales and see if your shorts are getting looser or tighter round the waist - that's a good sign of whether fat is coming or going!

If you have lost a lot of weight, are upping the training, and always hungry I would be very careful you don't become rundown and susceptible to illness.
I would say you need more food, stuff some decent sandwiches down your gob at lunchtime and have some fuel to run on later.
Ste Brom 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Soup is the devils work. Eat something solid for lunch.
 Michael Ryan 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

not enough complex carbs
In reply to Moley:

> If you have already lost 2 stone you are clearly burning more than you are consuming and the upping of mileage is probably causing more muscle (hence weight gain)

Only if food intake is increased. Ye cannae change the laws of physics Jim.
Moley 11 Feb 2015
In reply to Turdus torquatus:

A good point, in that case she is doomed!
 beth 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Eating more saturated fat in your meals will help you feel fuller and give you fuel. Peanut butter is carb rich which may be triggering an insulin response to store the energy hence putting on weight - during a run, great immediate energy.
 hamsforlegs 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Eat more food.

You've clearly developed impressively disciplined and healthy eating habits during your period of weight loss, but since you're training quite hard you need to prioritise refuelling.

Try adding a handful of wholegrain to your lunch (a wholemeal breadroll?) and dinner (portion of wholegrain rice?). You'll feel a whole lot better, and still be eating very healthily indeed.

As others have mentioned, some healthy fats and proteins will also help - maybe have some boiled eggs to snack on during the day and/or a handful of nuts and seeds, but adding complex carbs is going to make a big difference.

Sounds like you're absolutely motoring. Good luck.
 Roadrunner2 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Also dont try to lose weight during marathon training.. you will normally anyway, but if you want to lose weight do it at other periods of your season.. not during marathon training.

I'd ignore specific diet advice on types of food.. you need to work that out yourself, when to eat, breakfast before long runs, food during the day is so person specific its pretty useless and confusing.

I run with a few who dont eat breakfast before 16 mile runs on a sunday at low 6 pace.. I have to get up and have P&J on toast a good few hours before, we're all set up differently and you aren't going to change your digestive system and physiology in the 8-10 weeks before a key race.

If before a long run I feel hungry I'd certainly eat, it needs to be quality and enjoyable or you won't do the miles, so a nutella sandwich, even just a few spoonfuls of nutella.. you dont run long runs in marathon to lower your weight, its to improve your aerobic efficiency.

Fruit will cause severe in bloating in some, some it's gods gift, if I touch an apple I'm in a mess, yet banana's are great.



 fraserbarrett 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:
Are you sure you are fully hydrated? The body uses hunger feeling for thirst too. Could be that you are constantly slightly de-hydrated.
Post edited at 17:17
 Padraig 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

From your op I'd say it looks like you're NOT getting enough carbs for the miles you are doing. Maybe you've just not mentioned them? When I was doing marathons bread, rice & pasta made up circa 50% of my intake. HTH
cb294 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

> ..... I'm constantly hungry, whether a running day or not. I wake up hungry, go to bed hungry. ....... Hot chocolate before bed. Peanut butter is my downfall.....


Pregnant?






Sorry, couldn´t resist!

CB
andymac 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

How much peanut butter do you eat?

I have found myself to be under its evil spell as well ,but I find it helps in the energy dept.

Obviously not overly healthy stuff ,but it helps make brilliant flapjacks for cycling energy boosts.
OP katyc 11 Feb 2015
In reply to andymac:

Thanks for all the advice. Will start piecing it together and see what works for me. It's my first marathon so it's a little bit of trial and error and a massive learning curve!

To answer some of the Qs:
Been running seriously for about a year.
I have read a lot stating I should do a couple of 20 milers in prep. for the event. Appreciate I'm a little ahead but I'm off to Font in a week so will get some of little runs in but no big run for a couple of weeks so wanted to have some miles clocked. I think it's helped psychologically also to know I can do it (helps the head).
Am just measuring on scales ---- maybe I need to invest in some other measurements too, though would still like to hit 10st.
I have just water in porridge as was eating too much dairy but guess I can start adding it in here and there to help keep fuller for longer. Added milk this morning, with fruit and a nut bar and was definitely less hungry mid morning.

As a side note, entered a local 5K tonight and knocked a whole minute off my PB (24:09). Well chuffed (must have been the bigger breakfast! ; ) )

Ps how much peanut butter do I eat? Too much! I probably need to ban it from the house!


andymac 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

You may just find that the peanut butter is your secret weapon.

One thought though;

The thought Banana and peanut butter smoothies makes me feel ill.

Look up "peanut butter energy balls".
 Roadrunner2 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

TBH I'd advise not running a marathon so soon, get quicker...

Too late late now but get this out of the way then work on shorter races, become a better more efficient runner, then step up.. that would be my advice. Understandable, I did it, but too many get bogged down in distance rather than getting a better runner then stepping up.
 ClimberEd 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Protein, - you need some for breakfast and some at lunch as well as in the evening.

 Roadrunner2 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

"I have read a lot stating I should do a couple of 20 milers in prep."

There's a lot on the internet written by slow poor runners, they maybe experienced but have been poor by following their own advice, yet now coach/advise using the same techniques which took them not far..

20 milers do help mentally but physiologically I'm not convinced.

http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/are-you-putting-too-much-emphasis-on...

Moley 11 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Damn I'm hungry, it's all your fault!
abseil 12 Feb 2015
In reply to andymac:

> How much peanut butter do you eat?..... Obviously not overly healthy stuff...

I think it might be more healthy than many people think - not bad at all - or so a web search shows (sorry no links, but they're easy to find).
 Roadrunner2 12 Feb 2015
In reply to abseil:

I think it depends on the type doesn't it?

Some seems great, some of the cheap stuff looks and tastes like butter..

I'm a huge fan of honey..

But tonight I came home from work, hungry and tired, but needed a long run, so had two pieces of toast with honey and P&J and then ran 18 miles feeling pretty decent. Without that pick me up I'd not have managed it. I was at work at 7 am, so had breakfast at 6 am, lunch was 11 am, so by 6 pm when I ran I needed some food as a pick me up.

I think if you want to lose weight running, just run before breakfast.
abseil 12 Feb 2015
In reply to Roadrunner2:

> I think it depends on the type doesn't it?... Some seems great, some of the cheap stuff looks and tastes like butter..

> I'm a huge fan of honey..

Thanks and yes, of course, as with much food it's worth getting the good stuff.

I also really rate honey highly.
andymac 12 Feb 2015
In reply to abseil:

> I think it might be more healthy than many people think - not bad at all - or so a web search shows (sorry no links, but they're easy to find).

I have no doubts it's healthy.

Think it's a slow release carb ,or whatever.

One of the few almost normal foods that Team Sky are allowed is Almond butter.

The middle class version of Peanut butter.
 marsbar 12 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

I'm not surprised. You can't starve yourself and then expect to run 16 miles a day.

If you do your body will fight to hold on to your fat.

Stop weighing yourself, concentrate on your running and eat more and your body will sort it out.
 Sharp 12 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

I'd upp your breakfast, porridge was always my go to when training a lot but it was a pan full to the brim, porridge, dried fruit, chopped up bananas, grated apple etc followed by a couple of boiled eggs on toast. Kept me going till lunch with a couple of flapjacks and fruit in between. Lots of pasta and vegetables for dinner, often a jar of tomato sauce with pasta, boiled veg in with it and lots of cheese and tinned fish.
 The New NickB 12 Feb 2015
In reply to Roadrunner2:

I enjoy long runs as part of marathon training and step up to 20 miles quite early, but I've got years of running in my legs and 20 miles isn't a huge step up from regular 13-17 miles runs that I do year round.

I'm always accused of not doing enough slow running, ie. below 8 minute miles, but a) I don't particularly enjoy plodding; and b) I don't have time to run more than 50-60 miles a week and my body can take the intensity at that mileage.

My favourite sessions are 30 minutes at threashold or 10 miles at target marathon pace. These seem to make me a better all around runner.

To the OP: your body takes a while to adapt to the increased training, including your appetite and the systems turning fat in to energy.
 Roadrunner2 12 Feb 2015
In reply to The New NickB:

Yeah I do most of my long runs at 6:20-7:20 pace, any slower just bores me.. the bulk of my races are long runs so I get a lot of those in those training runs so I think that's also why I tend to get by of lots of 15-19 milers.
 RedFive 12 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

If you can do 20 then you can do 26 on race day - the crowd support is amazing.

Be careful with the long runs. Me and the missus were doing exactly what you are doing this time last year in prep for Paris. Worked for me but she ended up with a calf injury on the last 22 mile training run. She completed Paris, but in nothing like the time she could have done.

In hindsight we were physically fit enough once we hit 18 miles. 'Mentally' we come from a background of 10 hour days walking in the hills and 6 hour 80 mile bike rides so a 3 - 4 hour run wasn't a problem......

We were constantly knackered this time last year, and exactly like you were always hungry. I bore anyone that asks now that the hardest part of the marathon was the three months before it. An icy westerley hammering into my face for 3 hours as I ran along the Tyne every weekend is not an experience I'm keen to repeat. For the next marathon we will train with a much lighter run schedule, though first Mrs RedFive has to recover from the knee operation brought about as a result of the calf problem......

Good luck, it's a fantastic event
 Humperdink 13 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

As others have said: try up to the amount of protein you are consuming. Protein post long run will help aid recovery of your muscles so try to get some in within 20mins of finishing. More protein at breakfast will also help keep you full for longer. People often underestimate the amount of protein endurance athletes need. Just because you see body builders consuming lots of it doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful your body isn't breaking down your muscles for fuel due to all of the running you're doing (which is rather counter productive!). People can over estimate how much carbohydrate they need also.

As has been also said, don't worry about your weight: its the composition of your body that matters ie ratio of fat to muscle. As muscle weighs threes times that of fat you may get leaner (less fat) but heavier. That doesn't matter though as you need to be strong to run 26.2 miles. One of the best things about being an athlete is being able to eat pretty much anything you want (obviously portion control important is still important!). Good luck!
 Uluru 15 Feb 2015
In reply to katyc:

Just to add I second what people have said about upping your protein and DONT try to keep loosing weight whilst marathon training. You need to focus on one thing or the other. You shouldn't be depriving your body or you won't be giving it the nutrients it needs to recover from your running.

Obviously don't eat a lot of junk food stay with the healthy options and make sure you refuel properly after a long run or a hard run. Again this should include a significant amount of protein.

Good luck in Paris and losing that 7lb after you've done the marathon

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