UKC

Thanks Matt for doing last week. I'm actually thinking it's time for me to hand over to somebody else for a longer stretch, if there's any volunteers. I can do next week, but after that I'll be pretty unreliable for a few weeks.

Link to last week's thread: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=611577

UKC Fit Club is not a substitute for the training diary but to use with (or without) it as a motivational tool for all.

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity, noting goals, successes and failures and to swap ideas.

Anyone interested in starting is very welcome but you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits to help achieve your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity

Alex's sport climbing training article is still here:
http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.com.es/2014/02/training-for-sport-climb...

Last week's posters:
AJM - I understand this week was occupied with things other than climbing?
Lancer - Keep up the small grade advances and they'll turn into big ones!
hms - You were due a gentle week! Feeling better?
mattrm - Thanks again for doing the stats? Holding up the DIY club, I see.
mbh - Beast of a weekend! You've got plenty of miles behind you for the CQ.
mrchewy - Good work on the bouldering.
flopsicle - Sounds like PEWW is getting sneaky. Good volume session on Monday.
Mutl3y - Well done on the Beastmaker, what's the next level up?
Joyce - Progress at Huntsham's? Sounds like you're getting close!
The Ex-Engineer - Well done getting out again last week.
Tyler - I don't know much about cycling, but if you're doing 45km of the MTL as training, doing the full 75km on the day sounds reasonable to me.
Ally Smith - Is Unjustified next on the list?
Dandan82 - Still fitting in plenty of climbing around the DIY.
JayK - Well done winning the winter league!
Willi Crater - Good volume outside.
Cheese Monkey - Cornwall sounds great. I hope the cold turned out to be nothing.
Exile - Good training around a busy work schedule.
0.5viking - Well done on the bouldering. Any progress on the 6B+s?
Creedence - Good to hear the gym ball is working for you.
Just Tintin - A few good training sessions in there around the promotion activities.
Nick Russell - jetlagged.
Humperdink - Well done in the intercounties! Have fun in Portugal.
Kevster - Did you get out this weekend?
biscuit - It's amazing what the prospect of more climbing does for motivation!

In reply to Nick Russell:

Cheers Nick.

Much better week this week. Should get 4 runs in, planning on getting out later, and had a decent return to climbing.

Decided not too push too hard so went for a session of doing routes I wouldn't normally do. Cracked off an amazing 6c slab involving handless moves, followed by footless moves. Not been on slabs for ages and lots of good climbers have failed on it. Also did a 6c+ corner route that felt like a grit chimney. Brilliant route. Shoulders and hips aching the next day.

May get 2 sessions in next week and decent runs planned.

In reply to Nick Russell:
Just starting out with a new structured plan for training this year, following some guidance from Steve House's "Training for the new Alpinism".

I'm laying down an endurance base, which I expect to follow for about 6 weeks before adding in more variation. Yesterday I ran a 10k up to Shining Tor in the Goyt Valley, it was quite hard staying within the aerobic threshold and resisting the temptation to take off.

My goals this year are ambitious, but I decided not to pick things that I know I can probably do.

* Lead 'Regent St' (E2,5c) at Millstone
* Run a 5k in under 18 minutes
* Climb the 'Allain-Leninger' route on the Dru. This will obviously depend on conditions and finding a suitable partner.

Looking ahead to next Winter,
* 'Central Grooves' (VII,7) on Stob Coire nan Lochan.

Andrew.

M - Muir Valley. Climbed a few 10s to warm up. Onsight attempt on an 11d, fluffed the crux. Went to try the moves on Jesus Wept. Did all but one move no problems, thought the remaining one (just a big throw low down) would be easy enough to figure out.
T - Rest day
W - Back to Jesus Wept. Spent most of the afternoon getting shut down on the one move I hadn't previously done
T - Went to Bob Marley. 11a warm-up then worked on Dogleg (12a). Got there in the end but it took more attempts than it should.
F - Drive back to Boston
S - Mooch around in Boston, flight back to Bristol
S - Nothing. Tired and jetlagged.

The trip didn't really go to plan. I knew it was a long shot to work JW in a session or two, but it was a bit demoralising to not get past bolt 2 from the ground, especially since the rest of the route felt fine. I thought I'd got everything right, with going to have a look one afternoon, then taking a rest day, then having a proper go at it. I've learnt from this experience to actually try all the moves on the recce day - that one that I'd skipped over turned out to be the stopper.

I'm quite uncertain about the whole endeavour of projecting routes on a trip to be honest. Maybe next time I'll stick with onsights and in-a-day redpoints.

Goals

Jesus Wept, 5.12d, RRG
Didn't get it this time

Brean progression to The Milky Bar Kid (8a)
Prisoner of Conscience -> The Guilt Edge -> Bullworker -> Prisoner of Bullworker -> El Chocco -> The Milky Bar Kid

Tick off some of the harder Avon trad that I've not got round to yet
Peryl, Low Profile -> Think Pink, GT Special, Amanita, Central Wall, Main Wall Eliminate

Sort out the asymmetry
A bit of an ongoing thing

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks Nick, it certainly was!

This week I have somehow managed to run every day and clock up 75 miles and 9400 ft ascent, with one run of 20 miles and er, no speed work. That's the thing I really don't get myself to do, which I really want to. I do "intervals" in the form of hills and fast miles within longer runs, but have never had the discipline to make myself do a proper, structured intervals session. That will probably still be true next week, but I live in hope!

M - 10.3 miles hills
T - run to lift home, 9.3 miles
W - run to find our car where my wife had parked it, get dressed if not decent and get to a lecture. Didn't get lost and made it on time, but the lecture was dull 10 miles
T - 7.9 m run to pick up my mother in law.
F - 8.3 m / 1800 ft coast path run St Agnes <> Perranporth
S - 9.4 miles hills
S - By now I feel really tired and my legs ache, but they will once I'm into the second half of the CQ, so even though my fantasy of getting up at 4 and doing a long stint on the coast path up from Tintagel proves indeed to be a fantasy, it's out with me again, later, from the front door, onto Bodmin moor and back. 20 miles / 2800 ft, in 2:53.

I am beginning to realise that on the longer runs, I can go faster for longer if I just change my mindset from "OMFG I will never make it, save me someone, please!" to " This is actually OK, it hurts a bit, but I'm coping, just hold this pace and you'll be fine".

I've now also entered the East Cornwall Harriers 8 miles / 5 Tors event in April.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Cheers Nick. Yeah been a bit preoccupied this weekend!

Good start to the week training wise though, and tomorrow night I'll be in Rocklands.

Monday - encouraging session. 1-on-1-off on the green tufa roof (plus other links), better than before by some way. 4,4,4 l-sit to invert and pushing towards a fifth as well on each rep (managed 5 ups once but with a messy lower down). Doesn't look like much on paper but after a run of fairly dispiriting sessions it was good for my head to see progress on stuff.
Tuesday - bit of a beasting on the rings. 6,7,6 or something on the tucked front lever pullups. Have to start front lever progressions when I get back. I like rings. 4,4,4 on the l-sit to invert. 2x3 1x2 dips on rings, more progress on those, a lot deeper dips than before. Shoulder strength definitely benefited from the rings. 3x12 push-ups into rings, a bit lower than before, have to start raising the feet soon these feel ok now. 2x6 flies, felt hard, 1x6 Is, felt very hard - seems to work my back if fresh but when already tired my abs seem to be the limiting area. 3x8 wide grip pullups. Aching...
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - stuck in work late. Handful of boulders then physio re fingers.
Friday - Sunday - nothing. Well, I got married, and at the end there was some serious raving, that's exercise right? DJ said he has never had played happy hardcore at a wedding before the dance floor went mental at the end. Wonderful mix of the beautiful, the formal, the fun, and the plain mental.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks for doing fit club Nick.

Aims:

Winter VI 7 - Tick.

Spring 7b RP - Countash, Mill Side Scar

Summer quick build through E1 / E2 to get on some more E3s and consolidate at the grade

Summer -get on some slate

Long term aim, (18 months or so?) HP Exeguy (E6 6b) at Trowbarrow

M: am - 45min continual dry tooling, (winter endurance and technique.) pm - 45min road run, (winter endurance)
T: am - 1hr PE and core at the wall. pm - 2hrs road run, (winter endurance)
W: Rest / working late
T: am - started PE and core session at wall but v. tired so sacked it off
F: Rest
S: 10hrs 15min winter mountaineering. Gargoyle Wall, VI 6***, on Ben Nevis
S: 30min easy MTB with one of my lads - good recovery

Training ok, winter route superb - the weather was great so it felt pretty straight forward and a bit of a cheat to claim VI 6 when there isn't tiredness / darkness / spindrift / cold / hot aches / navigation / death etc to worry about!

In reply to Nick Russell:

thanks Nick. Felt shockingly bad at the start of the week but recovered by mid-week. Apparently there is a stomach bug going the rounds.

M - cycle commute. Felt like death. Came home early. Slept.
T - cycle commute. S&C x 3
W - cycle commute. Bouldering at Bloc trying their V3/V4 stuff. Felt hard.
T - cycle commute. Had meant to do S&C but still not 100% so decided to pass.
F - Cheddar with D1. Tried stuff on The Wave as it was in the sun whereas Still Waters was in freezing shade & possibly damp. Worked a 7b+ on TR but struggling to put it all together, esp a massive sideways lunge to a blind pocket.
S - S&C x 3 then off to AJM's wedding which was an excellent day.
S - Brean with lots of other wedding guests. Got Chulilla 2nd redpoint today, so pleased - my longest project to far.

So I have a couple of 7bs scattered round the local crags which I wouldn't mind ticking, but really time now to step up & try 7c! Nick, I'm up for more Brean action to try Chocco or Storm warning.

In reply to Nick Russell:
Another solid week and I achieved two undocumented STGs (now resolved going forward). I finished the red circuit before the reset and actually got some routes done at Brookes.

M - rest day.
T - Boulder Overlapping sections on the last problem of the current 'red tags' (V5-V7ish) circuit.
W - Boulder Sent it Wasn't sure I was going to get it after falling twice on last move.
T - Boulder @ Reading Feeling good for 3rd day on. A few Reds and a couple of Oranges.
F - Routes Finally did some! Felt steady on a few f6c, didn't get a f7a onsight (missed a heel hook on last move) but had 2 goes on a f7b which I think should go in a few sessions time.
S - working.
S - Boulder @ Stone Farm Rocks Fitted in a very quick session (6B & 6B+) but it was good to climb on ROCK, even if it was sandstone.

Generally feeling fine. No niggles and definite progress as far as general fitness in concerned. I'm now doing reps of 60 wide & 30 narrow arms press-ups and 15 pull-ups compared with the 40, 20 & 12 I was doing a few months ago. On the downside, my flexibility is not amazing so will need to make more of an effort with stretching. However I really need to get on some outdoor sport routes to tell if the Winter training has got me back to where I want to be.

Probably also time to start properly documenting some Short Term Goals. Therefore:
1) Stretch after every training session for the next 4 weeks.
2) Redpoint the 7b I've started working.
3) Complete the new blue and red circuits (being reset Tuesday/Wednesday).

In reply to AJM:

Congratulations Sounds great.

In reply to mbh:

Thanks!

In reply to all:

PS I probably have a couple of days free this coming week. So if anyone would like to get out sport climbing (or wouldn't mind me tagging along) either at Brean, Cheddar or Swanage/Portland, it would be great to meet up and put some more faces to names.

In reply to Nick Russell:
Cheers Nick- bad luck on JW but I guess Brean is calling?

The cold hasn't been much but has been sapping energy all week which is frustrating

Not a great week for climbing but I feel like I want to focus on this triathlon more.

So I have entered a triBristol Sprint distance. Incredibly nervous even though its a few months away. Need to work on swimming technique and training techniques in general. Considering joining BADtri but the whole club thing seems a bit overwhelming. Current individual times swim 750m 19min, 5km run 28min, 20km bike ?. Aiming for 1hr 30min finish!

M-Cycle into work, up to Manchester for the night. Gym cycle, 20km or miles (no idea what is was reading) in an hour on interval.
T- Back late, cycle home from work
W- TCA after work. Didnt realise they were resetting in V4 range so missed all of the new ones. Tired, rubbish
T- Cycle to work, cycle to Horfield pool, 750m - 19min straight out of the pool straight on the bike and hammered the cycle home. Felt great.
F- Trad at Shorn cliff in the afternoon. 3 E1s. Felt like I cruised them all and should of been on E2
S- Rest, short walk at Pontcysyllte aqueduct- stunning!
S- 9 mile walk in Shropshire hills and Stiperstones pretty steady only 450m up and down. Did my 3 mile run this evening - 28min and I'm absolutely done in. Need to work on that somewhat

STG- Stick to my freshly written tri training plan so I can acheive the times I want. Try and do get that man 7a in one session. 20km bike this week so I can see where I'm at (or not).
MTG- more v4s. Tick 7b. 750m swim-14 min. 5km run 20min. 20km bike 30min.
LTG- 7b+, E2, onsight 6c+, triathlon in June

In reply to hms:

In reply to Nick Russell:
Cheers Nick. Up next is to do two laps of the 5B circuit but with 6 seconds on / 4 seconds off instead of the default 7/3. Makes it easier but shoyld involve more hang time for the same length sessions. Instead of hanging 3x7seconds and failing on 2 then not even trying 2 I'll be doing 6x7 seconds and failing on 1. Any thoughts on this logic?

M- 150 press ups. 71/84 on BM5B(6sec)
T- ill
W- ill
T- feeling bit better. Works - did all 35 pinkles in about 1 hour. Did 12 or so comp problems and some blacks.
F- dashed out to Gardoms for a go on Soft on the G (F7B). Awful session felt weak from the start. Worked out had been using wrong sequence/holds.
S-150 press. 40 leg raise. 6 half hearted front levers. 81/84 on BM5B(6 sec) but with a v long break between sets.
S- potter at burbage with baby in tow. Felt weak.

Weight 64.6kgs MA down from 65.0 a week ago.

STG (by June)
1) 7B
2) 60kgs

In reply to Nick Russell:

And thanks very much for doing this and Matt last week. It's great having this thread to report back to each week and I for one appreciate the effort.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks for doing Fitclub again Nick! I didn’t get on the 6B+’s this week since the weather was nice so much roped climbing outside and rope indoors as well. What a pity that you didn´t manage what you came for. For me it makes sense what you say about climbing abroad, to just focus on onsight climbing and in-a-day redpoints, because then you´re experiencing more of the climbing (instead of just one route and some others as a warm up) which sounds more relaxing to me than stressing about sending a project.

M: indoor climbing leading up to 5+ and short boulder session afterwards, did a blue (medium).
T: forced rest, too busy with uni.
W: climbing outside, warmed up and then onsighted a 6 and did a trad 6 on toprope, which feels possible to trad lead. Indoors up to 6a afterwards
T: warming up with bouldering, ticked an orange problem (medium), pump training on autobelay 2x 6+, 6, 4+ without breaks in between
F: running, 4 times up and down the hill
S: climbing outside, warmed up on a 5, toproped a 6, trad onsighted a 5 (first proper trad route after toprope-leading last year during a tradclimbing course), and flashed a 6-.
S: 40 minutes running outside.

Hope there will be some nice weather this week to go climbing outside again, really keen to give the 6 I climbed on wednesday a go on tradgear.

In reply to AJM:

Nice music choice Andy! Congrats and enjoy Rocklands...

In reply to Nick Russell:
Thanks for this Nick - I'd have to agree with you about hols, onsighting/flashing seems to make more sense unless you intend like Ally, to be heading back somewhere regularly.

The wall is having a caving system fitted at the moment and the main room stinks of resin curing - even the training area has been dismantled, the campus rails are out of bounds. So had no choice really but to try hard in boulder room this week.

Mon - Boulder 2hrs. Did a load of V1/2 and then got on the spotty V3 on the roof. Someone said the V5 might feel a bit easier for me - had a proper play and at least held the first few crimps. Worked some V4s and another V5.
Tue - Boulder 3hrs .Did loads of easy stuff, then tried the V3s I can't do and the V5 on the roof and a couple of V4s. Lapped some V1/2s for a bit.
Wed - Rest
Thu - Yoga class
Fri - Boulder 2.5hrs. Tired from work. Took ages to warm up, then worked the V5, some V3s, finally worked some 'dodgy wrist on sloper beta' on a V2 (well happy with that) and flashed the easy stuff I hadn't tried.
Sat - Rest
Sun - Boulder at Curbar. First time. Had fun, way better for me than Plantation I think. Flashed up to V2, fell of lots of harder stuff including Gorilla Warfare. The start of that felt okay but my heel hooking skills are non-existent, hanging the slopers felt okay tho. Skin got too thin eventually, so chilled and enjoyed the sunshine.

Struggled to sleep Tuesday night as my arms and shoulders kept waking me up due to spasms of pain. Fair to say I'd tried hard. Still trying to work out a sequence of climb/rest days that will work for Spain - don't wanna get there without a plan. Genuinely took two full days to recover but work was very fingers and elbows intensive all week.
I enjoyed today, wasn't planning on getting out but glad I made the effort - Paul ticked 2x7A and a 7A+, also met up with some club members and Curbar had lots of easy stuff too. Found it easy to keep warm and did a fair bit of mileage but usual thing of thin skin due to sanding at work ended play. Learnt lots about mantling mid problem today.

All in all, I reckon the best week in ages, didn't tick an awful lot but did manage a lot of moves that would have stopped me dead a month ago - feeling the benefit of the coaching sessions with John Kettle already. Time to start playing on the limestone tho I think...

In reply to Mutl3y:

"81/84 on BM5B(6 sec) but with a v long break between sets."

Good going- that a personal best?

In reply to Nick Russell:

Cheers Nick.
Not a great week- was struck down by something mid-week which meant little to no activity.

Mon- rest
Tues-12 mile cycle commute. Pm- AW- felt rubbish - 6a+, 6a+, 6b+, then had to stop as no energy and felt shocking- went home early to sleep
Wed- still felt shocking.
Thurs- 12 mile cycle commute. Seemed recovered by evening- frenchies- 1 x 4, 1 x 4, 1 x 3. 3 x 40 press ups. 3 x 10 wrist rolls with 5kg. Glad to see some strength after a couple of days of being floored.
Fri-6 mile cycle commute. Work drinks.
Sat- hangover. Watched rugby.
Sun- fingerboard- BM5c- 74/84 (42 + 32).

Goals:

STG/ MTG-
Indoors 6c.
Trad- Onsight HVS (VS at present)

LTG
Trad- Lead E1.
Have a reasonable punt at 7a indoors.

In reply to Lancer:

Hello Lancer, yeah I guess but it was only the second time and with a big gap etc.

User you scored 42 on BM5C - that with full 7 second hangs? Top effort!

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Is it the neon yellow 7b?

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks Nick. Lurgy Wed- Fri this week so have had too many rest days and a couple of frustrating sessions. Friday was the worst with deeply unsatisfying top rope session where I did the hardest routes fine and then failed the middle 6bs. Getting better through weekend though, so hopefully still Font fit this time next week when it matters! Went to the WBL presentation at Wirksworth and did win Senior Women in the end, so some stash and a mini confidence boost/STG tick which is nice.

M – Boulder Brookes. Ticking off the remaining sessions of the blue circuit.
T – Rest
W – Ill. Coaching then hangboard.
T – Ill. Rest
F – Ill. Top roping stamina sort of 4x4s. I hate toproping.
S – Boulder Milton Keynes. Stamina to V5
S – Wirksworth stamina. Lead pyramid to 6c+ onsight. Boulder pyramid to V4.

In reply to Nick Russell:


Thanks Nick,
Not quite so much DIY this week but even more climbing than usual to make up for it!

I could be interested in doing the stats for a few weeks after my Kaly trip, I could start on the 19th of April for a bit?

Another good week, lots of volume, some measurable gains and lots of injury-free climbing.

M: Boulder link-ups
T: Running intervals, Strength and Conditioning
W: Campus board and more link-ups
T: 25 routes 6a-6b+
F: Rest
S: Routes, Portland; 4,5,6a,6b+,6b+,7b+,7b+
S: DIY; easy stuff, finishing touches on shed

Monday's link-ups went pretty well, I think I managed 2 full sets out of the required 3, which is my best performance so far, some good grades too, highlights include 'up V4 down V3 up V4 down V3 up v4 down V1 up V3' and 'up V6 down V2 up V6' (didn't quite make the top of that last one)

Campus board Wednesday was 3 sets of each of 1-9 matching rungs, 1-9 alternate rungs, 1-3-5-match, 1-4-7.
I was only tabbing the 7 on the last exercise, I can sometimes hit a solid 1-4-7, but not after that much campussing!

Saturday we finally got outside for the first time this year(!), it was a really nice day on Portland, occasional cloud but pleasant when the sun came out, not too hot.
I re-opened my account on Zinc Oxide Mountain 7b+, this is an odd route, it should be well within my abilities, and I love climbing it, but i've been chipping away at it for about 4 years now with no success! It's even described as low in the grade on the logbooks which I find laughable, for me it's a proper stamina-fest, unrelenting crimps and pockets across a slightly overhanging face, awesome moves all the way.
It's been 2 years since I had a crack at it so the first time up felt very unfamiliar, but little snippets of sequence started to fall into place all the time. Going pretty much clip to clip, a lot of the holds felt better or larger than I remembered, the feet more solid and the moves less wild and at the limit. I still didn't have a complete sequence in my head but I got a decent refresher of the main points.
After watching a dude from Bristol come off at the very last hard move on his repoint attempt, I decided to have another shot at it.
The sun had moved around so the bottom half of the route was in the rapidly cooling shade and the Bristol guy stripped his gear out of the route so I had to place my own draws, but I still somehow found myself 2/3rds of the way up the route without a fall and I only took a rest there as my fingers had gone completely numb. I finished off with one more totally avoidable rest with a bit of beta tweaking.
This felt like a great result to me, a route that had repelled numerous previous attempts and always felt super nails, felt really do-able.
It's a good incidator that i'm in reasonable shape ready for Kaly in 2 weeks, but right now i'm just keen to get back for another redpoint attempt!

Injuries are all good, no complaints at all this week, it's a weird feeling...
My short weight loss program has begun, I need to try and lose the 5kg or so that I have put on (intentionally) in the last few months so that i'm at fighting weight for Kaly.
Friday weigh in (clothed) was 69.2kg, so the aim is to hit 64.2 kg clothed by next friday. My diet is well planned during the week so I have cut out some items and reduced some portions, as long as I can resist any unplanned binges, I should manage it.

In reply to AJM:


He killed the vibe with the Trumpton Anarchist though didn't he!

In reply to hms:

Well done on Chulilla - you absolutely cruised it once you'd tweaked your beta - the final lunge for the jug looked like a static lock off on redpoint...

...and 4 days really doesn't count as a long project; think i'm up to 16 days on Fisheye and it's not even local!

Valley of the Blind (7c) was the route neither me or Cailean could recollect the name of.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Cheers Nick - thanks for the thread!

I've had an odd week, lots of family commitments and daughter's Dad cried off so less childless time. I did have some hours A/L on Monday and weds though...

Mon - 4 miles running and 70 mins skating.

Tues - 3 miles running

Weds - 45 mins Aqua aerobics (last session with service user, got paid to exercise but all done now). 1.5 hrs Lead climbing, did do some top ropes too but hard stuff.

Thurs - 3 miles running

Fri - 3 miles run/walk, got distracted by eclipse and then lost mojo after legging it through a timed segment, did get a personal best on the segment though. 1.5 hrs (ish?) bouldering - Depot WBL. Got my best score yet and asked whether it was a soft set but was told if anything people have struggled - could it be that there is improvement afoot? Still distinctly average.

Sat - 1.5 hrs pootling on overhangs while daughter had her kids club, not very on it as I felt a bit sore.

Sun - More pootling on routes, couple of hard routes but nothing really special as still feeling sore (elbow).

I've decided to try an resist climbing till Fri due to feeling sore but I can't imagine actually managing that long if ex has his daughter on weds. Having 2 hrs and not climbing - now that WOULD be a challenge!

In reply to Dandan:

Getting back in the swing of things this week, but feeling pathetically weak

BHAG (2016 and beyond):
- “La Geurre Sainte” 7b/+ multi-pitch in Wadi Rum
- Hard sport multi-pitch (8a region?) – something in Taghia maybe, or Pillar del Cantabrico on the Naranja de Bulnes?
- True North, Kilnsey – possibly too far outside my comfort zone in terms of style to be a 2015 goal
- Oliana super routes – Feb 2016 – La Marroncita (8b), Humildes pa casa (8b+), Fisheye (8c), Mind Control (8c), La Morenita (8c+)
- Kaa’bah, 8c+ - gotta aim high!

LTG (2015):
- Do some adventurous cycle touring (maybe MTB Great Glen/West Highland way?)
>8b+ RP options:
- Unjustified/Overjustified, Malham.
- Waddage & Mecca (and possibly the extension), Ravens Tor.
>8a on-sight (turns out the lattice board is very non-linear and I need to aim for 110 moves for 8a+ OS; Eek!)
- Aim for 72kg RP fighting weight

MTG (Mar/Apr/May):
- Finish off all the remaining routes at Brean; 7c, 8a & 8a+/b link-ups – major fail
- Reacquaint myself with the ‘bren and climb the 8b link-up project there
- Reacquaint myself with Unjustified
- The Dark Room, 7C+/8A
- 36 Chambers, 7C
- Be Ruthless sit, 7C+
- In Heaven (8A/+) via the dodgy lanky beta
- Get stronger - Get some proper “rat crimp” strength so that I can climb hard on peak lime - as much about being a skinny wretch as it is having strong digits it seems
- Increase An-cap
- Decorate the house & build some home training facilities


STG (next week)
- Do a foot-on lactate test
- Fix/sports massage on hip flexor & shoulders
- Fingerboard and S&C workouts


Last week:

M - Rest. Long chat with coach Randall working out where to go next after failing on Fisheye. My relatively low finger strength was highlighted, as was my very low tolerance to doing S&C exercises (15 pull-ups max seemingly doesn’t cut it at 8c!)

T - Good session working 7b/c out options for doubles with Ken; 6x doubles - couldn’t do the moves on a 7b (stupid, weird IV route) but on-sighted the 7b+. One set of working/RP attempt on the steep 7c. Hip sore again at end of session.

W - After Monday’s chat, decided to do one of my old S&C sessions. 6s on/3s off repeaters: 3sets 35 sloper & 3sets pinches, i.e. avoiding anything tweaky. 3sets 2x assisted 1-armers (12kg assist). 3 sets 25 wide girly press-ups. Stretched.

T - Rest – DOMS of doom in abs (but didn’t do any core!) and pecs. Sports massage to sort out hip issues. Re-built campus board; ‘tis a thing of beauty!

F - Rest – stretched.

S - Odin’s cave. Rushed 1 hour session; felt like an-cap. Worked out all but one move on The Dark Room, 7C+/8A. Linked start to crux, and post-crux to end. Then spent 5 hours in the car driving to wedding; danced off beer (7.2% winner!) and cheese platter excess.

S - Brean. 6c warm-up. 8a dog x2. 8a failed RP. Fell off the top of The Milky Bar Kid – again! Skin trashed so went up Chully-does-it, 7c instead. Fell, then worked, then stripped. Still have lots to come back to Brean for - had to try hard not to fall asleep driving home.

In reply to Ally Smith:




Press-ups are core!

In reply to Nick Russell:

Cheers Nick.

Mostly went out climbing this week.
M - Resting.
T - Out climbing. Volume of easier stuff (6b max).
W - Out climbing. Included a couple of 7a' s.
T - Out climbing. A couple of attempts at project until rain stopped play. Still struggling with the first (and easier) crux - a side-pull off a shallow mono making a nearly full span to a painful pocket. Can do it about 1 in 4 attempts. If I was a few inches taller than I could use a jug instead of the mono. Well, that's my excuse anyway, and I'm sticking to it.
F - Resting.
S - 30 min run. 30 mins on mountain bike. God I'm unfit.
S - Fingerboard session.

In reply to Willi Crater:

Shallow mono?! What is your project? 9b?

In reply to Nick Russell:

M-Rest
T-Board Session
W-Easy Board session
T-Rest
F-Anston, felt tired though and the crux holds on dark art roof were wet. No 8A+ send. Disappointing but I feel like I'm currently in a bit of a trough.
S-Gardoms. Did Soft on the G. Didn't fancy Full Power too much but I would be keen to try it when I was a little less tired/broken. Then went over and took an age to do Kidneystone. Lost a lot of skin. After a coffee in Outside I tried Flatworld at Baslow but for some reason it was a little sun trap and felt about 20oC!! Crazy considering it was far too cold at Gardoms in the morning.
S-Mega lurgy. Some kind of chesty cold. Feeling slightly better today. Will take it easy at the wall this evening as I don't want to break myself this close to Font.

In reply to Nick Russell:
A return to Fit Club for me over the Easter break, on the back of two weeks off climbing at the end of term. Last week I had three sessions at the wall getting back in to things, with my last session having me back to usual form, ticking off a few of the 7a-8a circuit. This week I was determined to get out because I hadn't been on real rock since being in Turkey over Christmas.

Mon - rest
Tue - rest
Wed - Pen Trywyn. Started out on the Upper Tier waiting for the tide to go away. Warmed up on Contusion (6c) and then made a very sketchy onsight of Axle Attack (7a+). Really pleased to get this as its super techy, vert and sustained, so nothing like bouldering indoors! Went down to the Lower Tier for a play on Mussel Beach (8a). Got all the moves dialled on the dog (it's amazing what bouldering will do to you) and then went for it straight on the RP. Actually made it quite far before I got pumped silly, and managed it in two overlapping links after not much rest so it's one to come back to. Fitness has been compromised!
Thurs - rest
Fri - Stoney Middleton. Warmed up on Armageddon (E2 5c), then made a "ground-up retro-flash" (having tried and failed on it when I was fifteen) of Circe (E5 6b), which is a mega classic. Sequence was made even harder by a wet crux hold! Then finished off on Our Father (E4 6b), another mega classic.
Sat - rest
Sun - a quick session at home playing on the board followed by some core and pull-ups. Trying to use therabands to get to one-armer strength.

So my return to rock has been more successful than I'd expected, and I've been amazed to find tech 6B moves reasonable after spending two months just bouldering. However everything post-crux has been very pumpy, but hopefully some fitness will come back with volume.

Can't complain about three Extreme Rock ticks in three days though!

Cheers, Jake

In reply to Mutl3y:

Yep- I use the App on my iPhone to time it, so 7 seconds hanging, 3 recovering. On the 5c programme, I find the "middle 2" painful, and also the "4 finger chisel" a nightmare when you do it for the 4th time (you do it twice in each set, and on the 4th time I find it hard to do the full 6 reps).

In reply to Lancer:

It's 7 reps, no?

Impressive tho. I find the 2 finger hangs painful as well. The 4 finger chisel not so painful but I just "power out" and cannot do more. I def prefer slopers and chisels even if I can't do many.

Am a long way from one finger front lever on pinkies!!!

In reply to Mutl3y:

Yep- fair point- should read 7 reps- but I do just follow the bleeping of the hideous App, and grit my teeth and bare it! Agree with you though- 2 finger holds hurt, and by the 4th chisel hold my arms just give up!

Can't ever see my body weight hanging on monos...just not possible...!

In reply to Joughton:

Can't complain indeed. Nice work, that's a cracking week.

In reply to Nick Russell:
Thanks Nick, lost my half-marathon virginity this week......

M: am - run to work 1/2M 15mins, pm - run home 8/9M in 58:44
Tu: am jog to work 1/2M, lunchtime - road session. Was rather daunted by coaches description of this which was 4 x 1mile fast (4:45-4:50 pace!) with 3mins recovery. Did it with a couple of guys who I could chase and was surprised by the rep times: 4:46, 4:44, 4:44, 4:45 - hmmm looks like I'm in shape!. pm - 4.5M run home in 33:27
W: am - jog to work 1/2M, lunchtime - 8/9M loop in 54:14
Th: lunchtime - 7/8M off-road in 46:22
F: lunchtime - 4/5M easy in 32:47
Sa: am 15mins jog + strides
Su: Reading Half-marathon - bright but a bit chilly and breezy for the UK half champs (+ selection race for the world half team - like I was going to interest the selectors!!). Had been debating all week what pace to try but at the last min decided I play safe over the first few miles. Gun went and tried to stick with a teammate who was going for around the same time. Was relaxed over the first couple of miles but was off the back of a group and had to decide whether to try and get on or not. Thought why not so put in a faster mile and got in the group only to find not a lot of shelter! Group stayed together until 7 miles when it started to break up and stayed strong putting myself towards the front and following folks. Felt ropey up a climb after 8 miles so out came the gel and although was working hard felt better. Followed the guy who broke the group up at 9miles until 11 and at that point it was a case of keep going, don't let anyone past and try to pick off as many others as possible! End result - 40th in 68:30 - get in! 17M overall
Splits off chip mats were: 5K, 16:37, 10K 15:57 (32:34), 15K 16:24, 20K 15:36 (32:00 for second 10K) + 3:26 for last 1K so overall I ran it pretty well with a negative split of around 30seconds. The slower 3rd 5K was down to the course which was up and down and twisty in that section.
Splits on my watch: 5:11, 5:16, 10:50 (missed 3rd mile marker!), 5:05, 5:06, 5:10, 5:19, 5:18, 5:15, 5:06, 5:10, 5:10....

67M Total, really pleased with the race yesterday and think there is definitely some more improvement in there with more specific training and a more aggressive opening 5K.

In reply to Humperdink:

Fantastic effort on that HM!

In reply to Humperdink:

Great work on the half marathon!

In reply to Joughton:

That's a great weekend! How long do you have for Easter?
p.s. I finally met your sister at the gorge the other week. Turns out she's in the computational physics class that I teach..

In reply to JayK:
Nah - only around 7c, but you don't have to pull on it only lean against it.
Also there's something resembling a foot hold to use so it's not so bad.

In reply to Nick Russell:


Sadly only half of that was on the MTL the rest was on flat road so it's still a long way off.

Another work affected week:
M: Quick session at Boulder UK on way to Durham. Did ok on new set manged most of the new V5s in short order
T: Work
W: Why am I so weak?! Boulder UK, barely managed a move I'd not done on Monday never mind a problem.
T: Tried some pull ups; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 8 (ooh ya, me elbows).
F: Work
S: Beautiful day so went to Stockport, failed to get up anything although I'm probably back to near full fitness which is both pleasing and depressing in equal measure!
S: Travelling.

In Chamonix this week, not sure my ankle is up to skiing so may try and get out on a bike but main aim is to not eat too much melted cheese based food (not as easy as you'd think, they don't sell any other type).

In reply to Joughton:


What was the third?

In reply to AJM:

Congratulations, sounds like a great weekend

In reply to Tyler: I've just realised that its not Axle Attach that's in Extreme Rock, its another route a bit further down.

Axle Attack is in 100 best Limestone routes which is another book I'm working through!

In reply to Nick Russell: Cheers Nick, yes she mentioned that, it's a small world!

In reply to Joughton:


A fine aspiration - I'm about halfway through, but haven't ticked one yet this year

In reply to Dandan:


I'd love to know what that diet is! I'm guessing you're not particularly overweight now so how do you lose over 7% bodyweight in a week (or two weeks, can't quite work it out from what you said)? Is it one of those things where you expect to put it all back on soon after?

In reply to Dandan:


That would be fine for me, as long as I can find wifi somewhere over Easter weekend. I go to Morocco for 2 weeks on the 14th so it would be tricky for me to do the two beyond that!

In reply to Just Tintin: .

Yes - bright yellow holds on the line R of the main overhang.

In reply to Dandan:

Something I need to do as well As you say, a stunning route with awesome moves.


Been there, done that!
I am currently on 6 redpoint attempts and counting with 3 failures well past the technical crux moves on the very, very last hard sequence.

Good luck with the trip and I might see you down at Portland at some point.

In reply to Dandan: losing 5kgs in a week....that's a typo yeah? If not what's the idea?

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Yes, that one feels like it should go! Good luck and let me know if you need a belay.

In reply to Ally Smith:


I have definite recollections of a massive span in the middle of votb - I would have plumped for circus circus personally as a route to recommend on grounds of that.

Arrived in Rocklands last night, passed out like the dead about 2130, quiet morning this morning before some bouldering this pm.

When did the DJ play that btw? I ended up off at the bar for a bit just before we left so missed a few songs...

In reply to AJM:


Yep, definitely got a big span in it. Crux of Circus, Circus is balancey moves on small crimps with rubbish feet, much more hms-style, I would have thought (though there's a bit of thuggery low down).

Have fun in Rocklands!

In reply to Tyler:

I was going for 5 kilos in two weeks, not one, is that still ridiculous?
I should mention that I have the world's fastest metabolism, it once took me 2 years two put on 2 stone, then when I started climbing I thought I should get lighter so I dropped it in not much over a month... Admittedly that was 10 years ago.
I'm not going to starve myself, I've just made some of my portions more sensible and will stop eating half a tub of ice cream every Friday and Saturday night, that sort of thing. It will be interesting to see what weight I actually get to, my body seems to want to always be 10 stone and I've never really had a problem getting there or keeping it there, I have to work hard to shift it either way!
That said, I've rarely needed to lose weight so it's not unlikely that i've set myself a ridiculous target...

In reply to Nick Russell:

ooh I like small crimps! Only worry I have with Circus, Circus is that it doesn't have a lower-off so I can't just string up a rope & work on the moves. That is very much how I rely on doing hard stuff. I'm not afraid to fall, but I find it so frustrating if I can't really try out subtle differences in sequence without constantly popping off.

In reply to AJM:

have a brilliant time Andy - very envious!

In reply to mbh:

Cheers! Had a smile on my face all of yesterday!

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks! Funny how quickly the pain disappears as now I'm thinking of doing another one!

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks Nick.

With the full time outdoor season fast approaching, and due to how knackered I was feeling on Monday, I decided to have a restful week this week. Plans were scuppered on Sunday when my tyre blew out on the way to the crag. Cheered up a bit by some personal best max hangs when I finally got home. Must have been the lighter wallet….

M - Rest
T - Rest
W - Rest
T - Rest
F - Rest
S - Drove to Ogwen for a spot of bouldering. I’ve not really done much bouldering outdoors before, so just thought I’d play it by ear, see what I liked the look of, and set a benchmark for myself. Flashed up to V3. So I think I need to find myself a nice 6B or 6C to work at.
S - Gym Ball Week 4.
Max hangs. 3 sets of 3 hangs per grip. 1 min between hangs. 3 mins between grips.
1/2 crimp 20mm edge (+2kg), front 3 open 20mm edge (+1kg), 35° sloper (0kg).
(+1kg on all grips)

In reply to Tyler:

So i just did some hugely unscientific extrapolating from 2 data points, i'm currently on course to lose 4.9 kilos in 2 weeks, that's a straight line prediction, obviously the rate of loss is going to decrease over time, but if I can shed 3-4 kilos i'll be quite pleased.

In reply to hms:

Yeah, that is a bit of a pain. It would take an afternoon to work it out, but we could probably rig a lower-off with some static rope. I have plenty of that.

In reply to Dandan:


No point asking me, no one knows less about losing weight than me!

In reply to hms:

There's a bomber wire or two you could place from the massive ledge above the crux if you wanted to create a proper anchor. But the wire above the peg is somewhere between your head and your waist depending how much you've extended it for the last hard move so you can work it off that just fine. I used to go through the moves past the peg/wire on my first go, place the bomber wire on the ledge and clip a few runners to it, and lower off from that, but only in order not to have to carry the trad gear on all subsequent redpoints. Above the ledge (above the peg/wire) it's only HVS so the easiest way to strip it on an entirely working day is just to drop down onto the last bolt and thread it.

In reply to Dandan:

Well you might be an outlier but I think you ought to concentrate on losing no more than a kilo a week - that is if what you want to lose is fat rather than muscle. The problem with very fast weight loss is that you are more than likely losing a degree of muscle (it weighing three times that of fat) which you'll need for climbing. So ideally you need to be monitoring your body composition as well. You want power to weight gains which means lowering body fat percentage and getting stronger at the same time (sorry, I'm sure you knew that already). I seem to remember a bit about Bradley Wiggins (or maybe Chris Boardman) trying to cut weight to improve his ability to climb at the tour de france and it was the same thing.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Morning Campers,

Sorry for the late reply, life has gotten in the way of playing a bit lately. Thanks Nick for sorting this out; gotta say, really enjoying the ol' Fit Club thang.

Training Diary WC 16/03/15
Maximum Strength Training Week 3/3

Monday – Power pull ups (speedy ones) to start. 3 sets of 8. One armer practice: 3 x sets of now mostly gently sagging (after a 5 to 7s lock) x 3 each side (6 in total per set) All but the very last two were locked or sagging slowly for more than 5s (woo hoo) - 7.5kg weight reduction. Off set pull ups, 3 sets of 3 each side – all but the very last one were proper pulls, although the first set needed slightly longer locks. 3 x 8 pull ups with 7.5kg extra. Front lever practice – who’s funny idea was this?!: 3 x 3 sets of 3s holds with 1 leg bent at 90º and one straight – pretty poor form but a first attempt. Finished with core and some antagonistic exercises.
Tuesday – Nothing; let’s call it ‘rest’.

Wednesday – Got away from it all at Huntsham. Warmed up and felt great, friction was incredible. Got on the ‘steep as’ Between The Lines Project and wasted myself gloriously. Didn’t send it but did learn a lot though, especially that my tactic of hoping to fluke my way through the crux foot jam ain’t gonna cut it as it’s (for me) a super low percentage move, so I’m gonna have to just work that next session me thinks. Not an easy problem, but my only other 7B+ took 6 months to do so I guess it’s par for the course really.
Thursday – Rest.

Friday – Rest.

Saturday – York Park Run (guest starring the International Headwind of Destiny!). Got around in 19:26 which was a PB for the course but a good 50s off where I wanted to be but the wind scuppered that plan. However, legs felt great pushing hard for the first 4 or so km so really pleased with that.
Sunday – Another double bill. Almscliff early doors – was the only person at the crag for the first hour or so on a blue bird day with rock chilled to perfection – couldn’t believe it. Got warm on a a high 6A and 6B+ (good for headalogical confidence) before getting stuck into Underhand (7B+) for my fourth session. Was able to climb hard on it for a good couple of hours and felt pretty strong/focused throughout. Had to work some beta out but, on my second last go, got within 3/4 of a move of glory (the easy bit). Well stoked, especially as I’ll be back oop North in 3 weeks to get back on it.
Then, bouldered at Leeds Wall in the afternoon with my wife, brother in law and his new beau. Great fun, chilled atmosphere and kept the steep stuff coming – climbed a V5/6 too in about 10 goes, which was alright.
Bring on some power endurance over the next couple of weeks, the Loop at Huntsham is dry and grippy as our kitten’s claws in a curtain – whoop whoop!
Weight = 72.2kg

Right then, goals:

STG (by Easter):
Boulder 7B+ (probably Between the Lines or Underhand at Almscliff as close to both).
Keep working weaknesses - one armed hangs, slopers, an-cap, power
Tick some more 7A+s in a session - only done this a couple of times so far.
Do more in a session at TCA - a little less conversation, a little more action - this is probably my biggest weakness

MTG (by end of September)
The Loop at Huntsham (super an-cap 8a),
The 7C traverse at Biblins Cave.
7B in a session - could be ambitious but we need that, eh?
Some 7Bs at the Bowderstone

LTG (by end of next winter)
Tetris, The Keel, Peckitt's Roof (Huntsham), Fat Cat Roof (Dinas Rock) - all 7C
Climb all the Classic Rock routes with the good lady wife.
Actually go up some mountains, rather than just staring at tiny crimps in a cave at the bottom of them!

Dream Climbs
The Nose (El Cap)
Careless Torque - never even actually seen it but it's THE line - wanna be falling off of it within 5 years.
Great Wall on Cloggy - the essay in Hard Rock just does it for me.

Love from,
Joyce,
XXXX

In reply to Tyler:


'I'm not going to starve myself, I've just made some of my portions more sensible and will stop eating half a tub of ice cream every Friday and Saturday night, that sort of thing.'

you could try this though...

In reply to Nick Russell:

Thanks for doing fit club. A busy period at work as well as the throes of house moving meant I missed last week.

M - Cycle commute. Run 7.5km @ 80% heart rate.
T - CC. Rest / walk.
W - CC. Rest / walk.
T - CC. Indoor routes at Pinnacle, the place stunk - but not as bad as my climbing! Made it my mission to go back and fill in the routes that I hadn't climbed in the middle section of my climbing pyramid (the F5's etc). Failed. Head elsewhere.
F - CC. Got home pretty stressed after a long week. Left the water bottle, heart rate monitor and watch in the draw and just ran and ran - far to far, far to fast! Body was battered but my head felt better!
S - Rest
S - Went back to Pinnacle. Much better session and began ticking of those pesky 5's. Got on a couple of new (to me and my climbing partner) 6a's which I can see becoming fun little projects of ours due to the step in technicality.

In reply to The Fox:

That's the though, I've been pretty good at just those things in the last month and barely lost a pound. What with taking up biking the weight should be falling off, it's not although I may have lost some podge although I may also be kidding myself and my climbing performace at Stockport hasn't improved in a month though my last few visits have been lacklustre.

In reply to Tyler:

You need to be brutally honest with yourself about how much you're eating in between meals/when you get home from biking:

You may think you've cut down your meal portions, but if you're chowing down on energy gels whilst biking or choughing a whole Soreen when you get home then you'll not be making the most of your aerobic exercise.

It's bloody hard to do, but wake up, have nothing more than a black coffee for brekkie, get on the bike for an hour, then don't eat until lunchtime. You'll soon smell the ketones on your breath showing you're burning body fat.

In reply to Tyler:

In my experience weight loss, if that is your aim, is all about the food. Very difficult to lose weight by exercising more*. Even if you can control/resist appetite the muscles you are building up are basically storage devices for water. The odds are stacked against you. Not looked at your goals but I f getting lighter for climbing is your aim then might be worth a rethink?

*despite this, it seems to be a central plank of NHS weight loss guidance and a key feature of every one of those "too fat..." TV shows. Nuts!

In reply to Nick Russell:

If anyone fancies some yorkshire sport in the next few months let me know I am wanting to get back into sport ready for my november trip.

In reply to Mutl3y:



I don't want to turn this into a typical UKC thread, but are you seriously saying that our National Health Service's weight loss advice being contrary to your personal experience is "Nuts"?!

I'm assuming their research budget is slightly larger than yours, but that aside, surely simple maths shows that exercise helps lose weight as well as a calorie controlled diet:
You restrict yourself to 1500 calories a day and your general daily exertion uses 2000 calories - You will lose some weight.
You add in an exercise session that burns an extra 500 calories on top of your daily exertion - You will lose more weight.
Sure, there will be some variation around muscle and fat and types of exercise, but if you are increasing energy out and not increasing energy in, you have to lose more weight.

Also, take two identical people who both want to lose weight, Bob goes on a strict calorie deficit diet and sits around at home watching telly and dreaming of cake.
Dave goes on the same diet but gets out for a run and heads to the wall a couple of times a week and for every extra calorie he burns over Bob, he consumes an extra calorie so that their deficits are identical.
At the end of a time period, they 'should' have both lost the same amount of weight, but I know for sure which one I would rather be, Bob and Dave aren't going to look or perform the same at the end.

I think what i'm trying to say is that getting a good result is almost always going to be a combination of the two factors, food and exercise. Downplaying the role of exercise in a weight loss program doesn't seem right to me at all.

In reply to Tyler:
Get my fitness pal. If you enter everything that goes in your mouth it's as brutally honest as you can get. The database it has is vast so entering stuff is v easy. Becomes much easier to see where you may be going and really forces you to think before you eat.

I'm a little over what I should be atm but am making gains through focussing on my technique. Much more pleasant as I got to eat a rolo cupcake this morning and am now improving my grade by doing what I'd like to do - climbing.

In reply to Dandan:

Hi dandan,

Fair point the way I wrote it does come across as a bit simplistic. My personal experience aside, there is a great deal of evidence and academic research that supports the notion that diet is the overwhelmingly most important factorin a weight loss programme.

Watching a "fat kids" programme the other day, a doctor was recommending to a family of fat people with a terrible diet that they needed to change diet and exercise or else it wasgastric band time. Next scene cut to them wandering into a gym for the first time to"have a go". Well it's hard work isn't it? And it doesn't half build up an appetite. Next scene, back atthe docs, "boy was that diet and exercise thing difficult! Can we have the gastric band thing?"

When I have tried to get the weight down I have done it purely through diet, with no change to my exercise and have achieved great results, without having to entertain the audience with some sort of boot camp thing.

And yeah I'm pretty sceptical of a lot of things advocated by organizations including government. Timidly vaccine being a recent excellent multi billion£ mistake.

Your example of calories static but with control of exercise/no exercise - of course the exercise will burn off more and reduce weight longer term but there'll life experience would see the exerciser having increased appetite and possibly over eating as a result. I'm sure I have read studies investigating this.

Good discussuon fodder!

In reply to Mutl3y:

I used to prefer the idea of just increasing exercise to lose weight, and then eating healthy foods only, but not limiting my intake if I was hungry. After all, if you're lucky enough to have both an active sport you enjoy (climbing) and healthy tastes (which I do) then this is easy. However, my own experience is that I've been able to make more gains beyond that by focussing more on a reduced diet and making myself go hungry sometimes (not after training).
In the autumn I listened to a podcast with the Anderson brothers (authors of the latest rock climbers' training manual) that was linked to on ukb and probably on here. Their approach was quite extreme -basically if you want to spend a period of time getting stronger and lighter, then you should just fingerboard and diet. Any aerobic exercise at all, and even bouldering as training, they counselled against as they all lead to muscle weight gain somewhere other than the fingers and forearms.
I haven't gone quite as far as them - I'm still bouldering outside at the weekends and doing an occasional indoor session - but over the last 4-5 months I tried to focus on just doing their fingerboard routines and dieting, without any additional aeroib exercise (at times I have positively decided against exercise that I would have liked to do, to avoid building up more of an appetite or putting on more muscle.) Up to just before a recent font trip, where I ate and drank far too much, this worked well. I lost around 0.5 stone over a month and then maintained it for the next 3 months including over Xmas, and I jumped a bouldering grade vs last winter.
So this is the experience of one person, but its backed up by the Anderson's research and makes logical sense. Having said all of that, I think doing it long term will lead to loss of technique and muscle for unusual moves or shoulders/corey stuff, so I'm planning to go bouldering indoors twice weekly again soon. But I found it worked for a decent period. I think it would translate well, or better, to route performance.

Si

In reply to Si dH:
Hi Si,

I totally agree with you and loved that Anderson brothers podcast. Two quotes from it I will never forget:

"You can't outrun a fork" meaning your appetite will get the better of you. Solid advice and fits my experience.
And
"Running to get better at climbing is like climbing to get better at running" which is self explanatory.

Wish their book was available over here. Even though I am bouldering oriented these days I'd like to learn more from these guys.

My experience of weight loss is atypical for a climber I suppose but I had struggled with my weight, trying diet and exercise but always finding it difficult even though climbing regularly. I decided to focus exclusively on diet (while admittedly still doing a couple of Boulder sessions a week). The results were incredible, like a kilo a week for two months incredible.

While I was losing this weight good natured people of all backgrounds tried to advise that I should exercise to lose weight or I would get better results if I did but I held to my plan and no regrets. It's that sort of approach I have taken the last couple of months too and I'm well happy. Currently 23kgs lighter than my 2012 "peak" and incomparably better at climbing!

Sounds like you benefited from similar focus and yeah I'd agree that getting a boulder, core session etc. in there will benefit. Loss of technique should be minimal tho if you're still getting on rock.

Good luck with your goals!

In reply to Si dH:

Totally get the diet bit, but I'm surprised they recommend cutting out all actual climbing. I've met very few people who don't have technique left to work on, and whilst the fingers are key it seems extremely focussed to decide that they are the only area that could matter.

I'm not surprised you jumped a grade if you were half a stone lighter!

In reply to Mutl3y:

I think one difference between you (or me) and the people that the NHS advice is aimed at, is that you and I already do some exercise, so a weight loss plan for us would contain some diet changes and/or some *extra* exercise.
For Fatty McChipface sitting on his sofa, a weight loss program would contain diet changes and *some* exercise.

Looking at recent reports, the exercise aspect of the NHS advice is more for the health benefits than for the weight loss, they reckon that an overweight person would benefit more from doing a 20 minute pulse raiser every day than they would from making any changes to their diet.
So perhaps not directly for it's ability to shed the pounds, but definitely for it's health benefits, in Mr McChipface's situation, exercise could be critical for his wellbeing.

This isn't really valid for us, I do a 20 minute pulse raiser most days just to prepare to do some proper exercise!

I'll give two simplistic examples again, I can choose one of two weight loss programs:
1: Severe calorie limited diet and limited exercise giving a calorie deficit.
2: Higher calorie diet and 6 days a week hard training with approximately the same calorie deficit.

I think that given the choice of being hungry all the time and not doing much exercise, or being equally hungry but training all the time (and consuming the extra calories required), i'd choose the latter. This might be because i'm a bit of a sadist and really enjoy exercise and training, or it might be because I like food and it means I get to eat more, but i'll happily take the hit of the potential extra (unwanted) muscle mass for the motivational advantage of a more active regimen.

None of that is science and none of it is researched, but it is my opinion and i'm sticking to it

In reply to Dandan:

Hello again,

We come from different weight loss backgrounds I guess. You've said above that you've never struggled to get to or maintain 10 stone. Good for you. But I have struggled to get down to 10 stone and considered it a landmark event when it happened recently! So we are going to have different views

Of your two plans again I'd say that yes, the exercise option is going to achieve great results and if the person doesn't really need to lose too much what's the risk - do it. If it can be stuck to its a great plan. If!

But for many people, exercise => appetite, and it's easy to overeat as a result, whether because they feel genuinely drained/hungry or that "they earnt it".

There are studies looking at the effectiveness of exercise regimes on weight loss and they do produce results....but at crazy low rates. Almost certainly "climbers" are different to the people in the studies but are they so different to "overweight people who climb a bit"? not really.

I personally find it a lot easier to concentrate on the good side of the equation and keep a food log etc than to up the exercise and deal with the perceived, real, ?, appetite urges that come from exercise. My best ever bout of weight loss I played a lot of halo. I didn't work out any more than I had before, but I nailed the food side. It was hard work but I figured a lot easier than working cardio and then eating the correct food portions to compensate etc.

Advice that is relevant to climbers how about this: training beta lady giving tips for weight loss aimed directly at climbers: #5 don't exercise too much

https://www.trainingbeta.com/how-to-lose-weight-climbing/

That's in addition to the Anderson brothers of course.

I'm not trying to tell you that are wrong (it's easy to be misinterpreted on the Internet) but you've never struggled with your weight and this is the approach I have benefited from most as I have shifted a serious amount of timber. I've also come to understand that different people have seriously different attitudes to food, snacking, treats and appetite...there is some really interesting stuff out there about satiation in different people and populations.

Sorry for going on, I find it fascinating tho.

In reply to Mutl3y:
As with most things to do with training/diet etc you have to experiment, find what works for you and do that. Although we're all the same we're actually all very different and will respond with a wide variation to different stimuli.

People (including me) often take what they want to hear from info and extrapolate that to work for them and everyone. The other podcasts have things like team of two and Steve bechtel saying cardio (to a certain level) is very important to climbers. Some coaches advocate huge volume ( Patxi ) some the opposite (team of two go for high intensity low volume). These are generalisations but I'm trying to get the message across that you need to find what works for you.

I'm definitely in the camp of needing to eat mindfully, rather than calorie watching. Cutting out crap works for me. It probably reduces calories as well as s by product.

I run as much as I can. Do I worry about putting muscle on my legs? No. Do I worry about it leaving me fatigued for climbing training? No. I'm not elite. That's not what's stopping me climbing 8a. Unless you're truly carrying too much fat it really isn't a major issue I don't believe. It'd a factor for sure but I see so many skinny people with bad technique all the time at the wall. Bent arm clipping, missing obvious rests/heel hooks, pulling on hard moves etc etc etc. I also see what climbers would consider tubby people regularly cruising hard routes with great technique.
Then there's the head game. That limits most people hugely.
If you're wanting a six pack for the sake of looking good then fine. But don't see it as a magic bullet. When I lost 10kg of flab a few years ago it affected my climbing hugely. Would shifting an extra 2kg now really help? I don't think it would tbh until I reach my limit and I might consider it for a hard rp this summer.
I still regularly fall into the trap of thinking it will though.,

In reply to biscuit:
Lots of good points here biscuit. certainly I'm guilty of recommending the advice and views that fit my own experience, though I am more than a little interested in objective evidence and research.

Good luck with your continued progression

In reply to Mutl3y:

In 'Racing Weight' (easily the best book I have read on the subject of weight loss), Matt Fitzgerald recommends concentrating on 4-8 week blocks with one single aim. So either weight loss, aerobic, strength, tapering, etc and plan all your food and training around that aim.

For the weight loss or more appropriately fat loss, he goes with a 500ish calorie reduction per day, with 30% of dietary calories coming from protein. He recommends that training is kept to short high intensity workouts. The theory being that any higher calorie reduction or longer aerobic workouts will simply result in fatigue and muscle loss. The high protein diet is also to negate muscle loss in this period.

After the 4-8 weeks. Its then important to stop weight loss and move on to another specific area of improvement. If you hadn't lost all the weight needed, you can always come back to it later in the year.

Definitely worth a read if you're interested in the subject.

In reply to Ian Rock:

Already got it mate, an excellent book!

In reply to Nick Russell:
Thanks for doing the stats.

STG - Sport pyramid - 6a (2/10), 6b (1/6), 6c (0/1) - Trad pyramid - VS (5/10), HVS (0/6), E1 (0/1) 12st 3lbs...
Aspirational - Climb E5/6 (London Wall), Scottish Winter V (Point 5, Zero, Minus, Orion), WI5, Redpoint 8a (Masada, Mortal Kombat & Cider Soak) stay injury free & maintain 11st.

Weight - 12st 3lbs (3lbs loss)

M - Rest
T - 100 dish tucks
W - 200 dish tucks
T - 5k run
F - Rest
S - Visited Grandad
S - DIY

Bit of a poor week. Life getting in the way a bit. Need to make sure I get a session in ASAP. Weight going down, which is good however.

I simply don't have the time to commit to doing the stats again, however I'd recommend doing it, it's good fun and enjoyable. Thanks to all who've done such a sterling service with doing the stats over the years.