UKC

Looking at the way my trainers are wearing out very quickly at the outside of my heal. I am led to believe this is called under pronation and needs lots of cushioning to help prevent injury. I wonder if anyone has any knowledge as to what make/model of trainer would this be best with. Looking in the internet Nike air Pegasus looks a good one.

In reply to fmck:
Firstly Ill be pedantic on two counts - its heel not heal
Secondly, if your shoes are wearing unevenly then why not correct your posture first? e.g. take a car to the garage and the tyre is wearing on one side, youll get the wheel alignment corrected!

Secondly there are lots of supportive shoes out there, I tend to wear neutral shoes so cant vouch for them personally but two of my friends who run ultras wear Hoka shoes as they have thick soles and are very forgiving.

In reply to Pesda potato:

Thanks will look them up. You say posture do you mean straighten up while running or corrective running style. I don't know how as its natural to me?

In reply to fmck:
Take yourself and a selection of used shoes to a good running shop or foot specialist / podiatrist

You may need suitable shoes and orthotics.

In reply to fmck:
Sorry forgot to add

Its not necessarily that you overpronate or under pronate (supination), if its purely heel wear then it may be due to over-striding i.e. hitting with your heel first. Do a google search for shoe wear pattern or pronation etc. If you are wearing the outside of your shoe more including the heel then you are most likely Under pronating as with Over pronating your foot rolls inwards. Its not easy to tell without seeing your foot in action. If you are able to get to a running shop that has a treadmill then they can analyse this for you and show you on screen which I found very useful.

In reply to fmck:

Try running barefoot - I doubt you'll heel strike then.

It's a touchy subject and not everyone agrees, but in my personal experience, switching to zero-drop, barefoot style running shoes did absolute wonders for my running technique and injury prevention. Just take your time with it and your feet will get stronger, and there'll be no need to rely on orthotics / supportive shoes to compensate.

In reply to fmck:

Not to derail the thread, but there's a lot of modern research that these problems are actually _caused_ by wearing shoes and shoes make them worse in the long term. Might be worth looking into barefoot (not actually barefoot) running: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_running

(I went to a specialist running shop and was tested on their fancy testing rig, and they said my running style was busted - tried to sell me some shoes with an absurd amount of padding. That felt a bit wrong to me, so did some research and found that there's not much evidence to support that extra padding does any good for the foot, and lots of evidence to support that in countries where people wear no shoes for running - they have healthier feet and far healthier running styles). One thing to bear in mind is that the modern style of shoe worn by every Western person since childhood has unfortunately deformed our feet - our toes are supposed to emerge at a widely splayed angle, but in the vast majority of people they emerge at a roughly-parallel angle.

In reply to SenzuBean:

I agree but its till a disputed area and as you said many of us are so used to wearing shoes since birth its hard to change to a 'barefoot' or minimal type of running. It took me a while but its definately helped.

In reply to fmck:
If its something youd be interested in you can have my copy of Born to Run which is a very interesting, and for me invaluable book (just for cost of postage £2.80)

In reply to fmck:

I love threads like this.

In reply to Durkules:

I knew it wouldn't take long!

In reply to Durkules:

How did your times differ as a result of the change in running style. I find running on my toes exhausting and slow

In reply to fmck:
I bought a pair of Adidas Boost and they were a noticeable improvement on other trainers in that my knees and shins hurt a lot less after running with them as compared to other shoes

In reply to fmck:

It may or may not be a good idea for you to try running barefoot or with a very minimal shoe. For some people it works well, for many it doesn't. I tend not to like messing around with people's stride patterns too much, and if you do decide to go for a big change don't expect overnight success.

Wear on the outside of your heel may or may not a sign of overpronation, it depends on how much and how far round it is. I have a pretty neutral stride and I still wear slightly on the outside. I rather like Pegasus myself - they have been one of my 'go to ' shoes for last 25 years and the current version is a pretty good shoe I think. Neutral, fairly light, pretty cushioned especially at the heel.

I would not muck around with orthotics or correcting anything till I was sure it needed correction

In reply to Durkules:

In my experience, the speed at which you're running has a bearing on whether you might be better off on your heel or forefoot. I can't run fast landing on my heels (fast being a relative term), and I can't run long (over about 90 minutes) on my forefoot without developing significant pain.

In reply to tony:

Agreed. At the moment, this is where I'm at - longer runs are quite difficult on my forefoot, but interval sessions are quite successful and I'm starting to prefer it (took a while!). I even ran a 4-mile tempo the other day all forefoot striking and it felt good, but it's taken a while to get to this point. My ankles, knees, hips and back feel better as a result, though my calves and mid foot (or rather some sort of tendon running from the ball of my foot to my heel) can get quite sore still!

To the poster who said running on toes is exhausting and slow: yes, I found this to be the case at first, but efficiency improved with practice. That said, when I race (10K or above) I'm still always heel striking. It may still be more efficient for longer distances (for me).

To the OP: unless I missed it somewhere I don't think you said whether this was trail or road running? Also, I think a personal appearance at a running shop to try some on might be best. It still surprises me how different the makes are (or models within the makes). I took a gamble a few weeks ago on the internet (really good deal) on some trail shoes and so far so good, but for road shoes I'd have to go and try them on, unless I'm buying another pair of the same model I already have.

Good luck!

In reply to fmck:

Forgot to say. Whenever I've gone to a shop I've always bought the most comfy pair rather than any other criteria (and this always turned out to be Asics Gel Nimbus, which always turned out to be the most expensive!) and have always been happy (my wallet less so), except once I bought some Mizuno's which didn't feel that comfy but were "technically suited to my running style" and hated them - pain on the outside of my foot with every run. Had to sell them on eBay to an even happier person who got some nearly new shoes for a bargain!

In reply to wbo:


^ This

There are conflicting opinions. 'Born to Run' takes the view that evil shoe manufacturers invent different types of shoes purely for marketing purposes, and every running ill can be cured by running barefoot. There may well be some truth in that, (shoe manufacturers are now happily churning out 'barefoot' shoes with attendant marketing, after all).

I think the basic premise is somwhat dodgy - man is a hunter gatherer who adapted to running barefoot across the veldt, therefore theres no need for corrective footware. After all, you never hear cavemen complaining about shin splints.

I'd counter that with how does the author know that? It's also fairly obvious that a few millennia back anyone with a dodgy achilles or brittle knees would have been hyaena food before they did much breeding. Hence humans back then no doubt were bred to be biomechanically efficient running ninjas, or were dead. We've had a lot of running 'defects' pollute the gene pool since then

Personally I tried all sorts to stop achilles problems, but it was only when in desperation that I tried orthotics that I began to recover. That said I seem to have found some shoes that I can wear up to half marathon distances without orthotics with little negative effect, and they're much comfier.

It's whatever works for the individual, and it can take a lot of trial and error.

In reply to fmck:

Thanks all for the info. There appears to be a running shop about 30 miles away from me that does check your running style or posture etc. I will give it a go. I will take trainers with me. its owned and staffed by runners so hopefully of help.
The wear on my Salomon XA pro 3Ds it was about 3 o'clock on the curve of my heel it wore through. It has gone through after 3 weeks and approximately 130 miles. I m actually just cycling at the moment to give my knees a rest due to a bit of a strain above the knee. Just want to make sure I tackle everything that might result in an injury.

In reply to Ridge:
Minimal is so last year, "maximal" is the new black.

Adidas copied Hoka to a certain extent and now everyone is copying Adidas.

In reply to Ridge:



Agriculture has only been around for 12,000 years - not enough for our feet to become genetically stunted. In societies that do practice agriculture but do not wear closed-toe, narrow, Western style shoes (much of rural India for example) the same running problems that plague pavement plodders are not found.

In reply to SenzuBean:


I'm certainly not suggesting that mankind has evolved to have genetically stunted feet, just that the ability to run long and/or hard without injury is no longer part of surviving to sexual maturity or being attractive to a potential mate. You could be born with significant gait problems today and have a long life and produce lots of similarly affected offspring. They won't be strapping on a pair of vibram five fingers and turning into a Tarahumara.

As for rural India, I wonder how many people actually have time for recreational running once they leave the playground? An explosion in running as a sport in such a society might well see an increase in injured pavement plodders.

It's an interesting subject though!

In reply to The New NickB:


I stand corrected

Although a nice chap in George Fishers did try to sell me a pair of Hokas, saying they'do be ideal for me with the right orthotic insoles... (He should patent that idea, the maximal hydrid).

These days, shoes that don't hurt my corns tend to be the main selection criteria

In reply to The New NickB:

Did you see that article on the Killian Jornet's foot strike? Some university and Salomon have developed sensors to analyse gait and strike and strapped it to Jornet or a race. It turned out he was a mixture of fore, mid and heel striking dependant on terrain, incline and speed.

Off road I can actually run in reasonably minimal shoes (Talon 212s) for a longish time/distance but as soon as road/pavement is involved I want more cushioning (though not to Hola level, that just looks stupid!)

In reply to galpinos:
I read a bit of it, but it didn't seem anything new. Adidas did some stuff with Haile Gebselassie a few years ago, with terrain less of an issue it was almost entirely speed dependant.

I'll do short races in traditional racers that are pretty minimalist, but love the Boost for clocking up miles.

I've never fancied the Hokas, but my girlfriend is the ultra runner in the house, a pretty good one at that, swears by them and has been wearing them for about 4 years.

I've got some 5 fingers, I got them free for taking part in a study on barefoot running. I sometimes use them to do a few slow miles, just strengthen certain muscles, but mainly I use them to protect my feet when open water swimming.

In reply to The New NickB:

I do the same with my Freet shoes, I tried running on gravel trails with them but 5 miles was enough, quite nice on soft trails though.

In reply to The New NickB:

And new balance went that way with the fresh foam.. they may be worth a try..

I'd look at those 3 makes; Hoka's, Boosts and Fresh foams and see.

In reply to SenzuBean:


Perhaps running on pavements is more of a problem than footwear.

In reply to Turdus torquatus:

is it accepted sense to give the cushioning in shoes time to recover between runs? No that I'm likely ever to run every day...

In reply to alasdair19:

In the past of have bought 2 pairs of the same shoe and tried to alternate use, but unless you can get them in different colours it can get confusing.

These days I tend to rely on the fact that I mix things up a bit between road, trail and fell, so rarely wear the same shoes more than a couple of days in a row.

In reply to alasdair19:

They do advise to. I don't always but tend to have a number of shoes on the go.

At the moment I have 2 pairs of Brooks Launches, an asics training shoe and an asics racing flat that I will do track work in.

Then on the trails NB freshfoams and Scott Kinabalu

On top of that I still have 2-3 pairs I'll wear if I'm just out for a slow run on softer trails so I can eak more mileage out of other pairs.

So it's pretty rare I'd wear the same shoe for more than a few consecutive days. Thanfully now I compete for a sponsored team who are connected with a number of brands and shops so I get pairs to review which financially is a big help as I will go through 10 pairs a year pretty easily.

In reply to fmck:
I usually alternated Pegasus with Kayanos when I ran highish milage. It can take a few days for foam to recover from an hours running, and running on compressed, saturated foam the day after a wet couple of hours is decidedly harder