UKC

Bergfreunde was founded in 2006 by two passionate German climbers. Today, the online retailer is the first place German climbers and mountaineers get there gear and clothing. With almost 15,000 products from more than 300 brands you get everything you need for your next climbing project or outdoor adventure.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7301

In reply to UKC Articles:

Bergfreunde is a great store with lower prices than most other shops in the UK. Since shipping is free above 36 (ish) pounds, it can save a lot of money!

Some specialized gear (even something like Black Diamond Focus harness - it was ~80 pounds vs 45 pounds) is extremely cheaper than here in the UK. I hope that will make some of British shops to review their pricing or provide some additional features.

In reply to PPP:

I wonder what the UK brand distributors that pay for advertising on Ukc make of the decision to advertise European webshops here?

Outfits like Bergfreunde have the exchange rate in there favor at the moment as they buy in large quantity at the much lower Euro price then sell into the UK in pounds allowing them to sell cheap and still profit.

just so you are aware, the uk shops are not making a fortune selling at retail price, far from it, in the example that you quote the Harness with a retail price of £80 will probably cost a Uk Shop between £40 and £45 to buy in, then there is VAT @ 20% to pay and this is before small matters like running costs and maybe the luxury of a bit of profit to go forward are taken into account.

This type of online European based discounter is great for the consumers in the short term, but not good for the long term future of UK based retailers or indeed the UK brand distributors, as the money leaves the UK.

In reply to Phil Ev:


The same VAT applies for European based shops. And provided the annual total limit of sales to a particular country exceeds 50 000 € (*), they have to pay to VAT to that country.



(*) might be wrong on the sum, it might be even less

In reply to HeMa:

Hi

The same VAT does apply, I only mentioned the VAT to give an idea of what the trade plus VAT price for a UK shop would be.

The reason shops like this are cheap is its so much cheaper for them to buy in Europe, the Euro has been weak and the volume they sell as a result. I have nothing against them, but the idea that the UK shops are cashing it in and should drop there prices (to what would be below trade price in the UK) is obviously un realistic.

Cheers

In reply to Phil Ev:


Weak euro is not really helpful for products coming outside the euro-zone... Eg. BD stuff.

In reply to HeMa:

Perhaps, but it is very helpful if you're buying in pounds from someone selling in Euros.

Cheers

In reply to Phil Ev:


Indeed. I'd quite like to see an article on Needle Sports or Cairngorm Mountain Sports on here now.

In reply to Phil Ev:

In the long term, if such discounters become commonplace then it will affect the exchange rate. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and all that. Until then it's not realistic to expect people to pay more just because a shop is based in the UK, particularly since much of the gear is made in China.

In any case, this seems like a pretty xenophobic attitude, we live in a global marketplace, after all. Why should we not want a German distributor to do well?

In reply to planetmarshall:

Because if you don't support shops, distributors and manufacturers in your own country then there will be less folk employed in it and they won't have the money to buy stuff from abroad, a progressive decline of the industry? The UK is full of many great privately owned independent stores, with who people climb when they are not stood behind the counter, they deserve some support. These shops often support the younger up and coming stars with part time jobs too, or top up their income with a decent café. Not to mention the fact that buying climbing shoes you can't try on first, must be the first sign of madness.

Otherwise, in the longer term when you are in North Wales, Lakes etc. and realise you've left something at home there won't be a little shop to pop into on a Friday evening or first thing Saturday and buy your wot not. Internet shopping won't save you then!

And yes, it is a little disloyal of UKC to promote overseas internet trade.

In reply to summo:

That's your 'free market economy', innit?!

In reply to summo:


It's frankly ridiculous to say trade within the Single Market is being "disloyal". It is one of our fundamental rights as EU citizens and benefits UK business owners also. I lived in Finland for over a decade and during that time found myself buying more and more outdoor gear and cycling equipment from the UK because the prices were simply better, even including shipping. I think my family bought five bikes from UK shops during that time, and I got lots of bits and bobs from Needlesports, Rock and Run and the Outdoor Shop amongst others over the years. I knew the guys who worked in the local climbing shop in Helsinki a little and remember chatting with them about pricing. I had just bought a Beal Edlinger rope from the Outdoor Shop (Milton Keynes isn't it?) for a great price. They looked at their distributors price and it would have cost them more to buy that rope at trade, than I had paid retail in the UK. The UK chose not to join the Euro, probably correctly, but that means at times currency changes work for us and at other times against us. British firms do good business selling across Europe, as soon as we start talking about "disloyalty" in trans European trade you are open to huge claims of hypocrisy, for all the stuff that we sell the other way.

In reply to Fraser:


Exactly, I would like to see that free will used to support local shops, local workers, and not simply chasing the cheapest deal from anywhere in the world?

It's a use it or lose it scenario in the long run.

In reply to TobyA:


perhaps, but that doesn't mean that if you don't shop in the small independent stores they won't struggle? The ones who will be selling outside the UK will be your big chains, many of which probably aren't even owned by a UK company.

If you want to see the EU as one happy community, that's great. But it won't help keep the little shops in Llanberis, Capel, Hathersage etc. afloat.

In reply to summo:


Which little shops in particular? Whilst living elsewhere in the EU, I bought my Patagonia jacket from Outside (Hathersage), ropes, gloves, cams from Needlesport (Keswick), a rucksack from Joe Brown (Capel/Llanberis) a rope and clothing from the Outdoor Shop (Milton Keynes) and other things from other companies (Face West, Rock and Run, Up and Under, V12 etc etc). The market isn't what it was in the 80s and early 90s and for some of those "little shops" mail order, including mail order to the rest of the EU, is probably a significant part of exactly what keeps them afloat.

In reply to TobyA:

I agree, my point is I have no desire to support a shop or economy of a country I don't live in, even if its within the EU. I'm not against mail order, but rather against the purchasing of goods from a retailer of no benefit to an economy local to me.

In reply to summo:

Buy the gear from Germany and then pop into your local shop and give 50 quid to the owner? Win-win all over.

In reply to summo:


How much effort do you actually put into that though? Can you find life's necessities made in the UK? Do you only shop at local farm shops for your food? Where do you buy your electricity, gas and petrol for your car from?

I like local climbing shops, have worked in a few in the past, but I don't think they should be somehow subsidized. When we buy things from other countries we create jobs and wealth there, then in turn they buy goods and services from us in the UK. The German webshop entrepreneur, or even the Chinese factory owner that makes the goretex jackets sold in the German webshop, both may end up sending their kids to study for four years in British universities and spending 10s of thousands of pounds here.

In reply to summo:


But it's OK for people outside of the UK to buy goods from Outside, Needlesports etc? That's just plain hypocrisy. Thankfully not everyone feels the same, otherwise we might not have access to the excellent climbing equipment we do. 80% of Petzl sales, for example, are outside of France. I can't speak for DMM as their sales figures are not public, but it would be interesting to know if they could survive if everyone outside of Wales had the same attitude.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Never said only buy British made goods, I said buy your goods locally, two different things.

In reply to TobyA:

As above, buying locally made and locally sold is different. I simply try where ever possible and practical to buy stuff as close to our door step as possible. I'm quite happy to spend 5-10% in doing so, you can argue I'm subsidizing the local economy, but I see it as contributing to my own community. How can that be anything other than good?
Me I generally shop in the nearest 2 shops to me depending on which way I've been, 5 or 15km away, both stock locally produce etc. Living in Sweden most of our liquid fuel comes from Norway. Don't have gas. Firewood is very local, as is fruit, veg, meat, eggs... I'm quite happy to be considered small minded, nationalist whatever.. I simply believe that spending your money in local retailers, either online or face2face is much more beneficial to my local community than overseas internet shopping, either direct from source or through an overseas distributor.