UKC

As I'm trying to increase mileage on my runs, I've thought about energy gels and the such

At one point do people use these? And do they make much difference
Any recommendations or cheaper homemade equivalents?

In reply to goose299:


I am of course in no way an expert but what's wrong with bananas + peanut butter sandwiches + chocolate?

In reply to goose299:

It very much depends what your aims are. How far are you going etc etc?

In reply to goose299:

Never been keen on gels, but I do like Shot Bloks. Tasty and chewy, but easy to swallow. Mostly use them when cycling, but occasionally on a long run.

Whether they make any difference is another matter

In reply to goose299:

Less then a hour; don't need them.

When do you need them; well how long/far can you run before bonking?

If you run much further then that, fuel up before bonking. Note; some people get sick from gels, so test first.

I only use them for 1.5 hour + events:
1.5 - 2 hour; 1 gell
2 - 2.5 hour; 2 - 3 gells
2.5 hour - 6 hours, 3 - 4 per hour, less at the first hour

In reply to abseil:

carrying them

In reply to tjin:

3-4 per hour is loads.. I'd also not use that many gels as most stomachs wont take it..

Experiment with different gels, blocks, bars and see. I think eat every 30-45 minutes but also you need water with some gels.

In reply to tjin:
When do you need them; well how long/far can you run before bonking?

In many ways, if you use gels you can almost make yourself more dependent on external carbohydrate intake. Running on an empty stomach and gradually making your body utilise alternatives eg fat.

A lot of in depth stuff on TES website, if you have the time and interest: http://www.theendurancestore.com/blog/blog/category/nutrition/

In reply to abseil:

Bit of background
So I'm doing 10K on a weekend with a few shorter runs during the week. Trying to boost this weekend run by slowly adding a mile or two each week.
Did 10 miles the other week. Started to die by mile 8 or so and limped in on the final 2

In reply to Roadrunner5:
In last Saturday's ultra I broke a cardinal rule - 'do not try anything new on race day'

In training I was making sure to eat something small every 30 mins - mostly gels, but some nuts and sweets.

In the race I was taking a whole box of gels thinking one every 20 mins for 7 hours, job done.

I got to 20 miles in 3.5 hrs. By mile 24 i was feeling very very sick and about to poop myself. I am not sure if it was motion sickness or the sheer quantity of gels. It affected me badly for the rest of the race which took me 6 hrs to cover the second 20 miles.

Pacing was also way off, but you learn from these things.

But for anything less than half marathon I personally wouldn't bother with food or water.

In reply to goose299:

I use them occasionally on long bike rides/sportives (i.e. 2-3 hr plus rides at a reasonable pace). I tend to mix them up with bite sized squares of flapjack and bananas, stuffed into my jersey pocket. I can then eat 'small and often' while riding, which lets me keep going or just slacking the pace for a bit while I eat. No more than two an hr for me, as I find too many starts to upset my stomach.

Not sure if its a placebo affect or not, but they do seem to help when I'm flagging and let me squeeze a bit more effort out for a bit longer.

I would think they would be good for long runs since they are so easy to get down your throat.

In reply to goose299:




For those kinds of distances, you won't find much benefit, if any, from gels. As others have said, gels can do nasty things to your stomach, so when you're running distances where extra fuel might help (for me, about 15 miles, give or take, depending on terrain), you'll probably have to experiment and be prepared to feel a bit shit sometimes. It's probably more important to keep decently hydrated.

If you're only just starting to build the distances, it's natural that you'll fade towards the end. More training will help a lot more than gels. You're doing the right thing by building slowly, and it will hurt a bit, but if you stick with it, you'll find the longer distances easier.

In reply to tony:
Cheers mate. At what distance, do you reckon they will become beneficial?

In reply to goose299:

You've got about 2h in the tank - just run further gradually. You were tired from running a long way, simple as that. It'll come.

Gels are almost universally made from weasel's jizz - if you find one that isn't horrible let me know. I only use them for long events when I haven't trained properly as an 'any port in a storm' emergency measure. Even then I'm probably going slow enough at times to eat a bit of proper food. That said I sometimes pop a few jelly babies on hour plus fell runs - thereby undermining my own good advice

In reply to tony:

Second this advice. The training will help you get the miles up without flagging. Build up slowly, figure out your hydration, and be prepared to take things easy when trying longer runs at first.

The benefits/issues around gels or other supplements (eg electrolytes) differ from person to person.

I always found that it was time rather than distance that mattered. If going for up to 90 minutes, gels weren't very helpful, and I would only bother with water if hot. For more than 90 minutes, water (from the beginning) is critical. For more than 2 hours, some kind of gels start to be important. Probably pretty similar to tony from what he described.

If you do want to try gels, try a few different brands, using just one gel during a run to see how/whether it helps. But tony's advice is right - this is probably a distraction until you are consistently running for longer blocks.

If plain old long runs and persistence are a bit boring (they are), try introducing some technique drills and/or stretching into your training. These could help a bit more than gels at this stage.

Good luck!

Mark

In reply to SteveRi:


I suppose that would explain whey they are so expensive?

I disagree with the common line on this. I always found Gu, Hammer and Clif products really palatable. Doesn't mean they work though, and if anything I found it easy to get too dependent on eating lots of sugar during long runs.

Actually, something to consider here is that general diet has a big impact. Eating a decent meal after training, and having a generally balanced diet and enough hydration can be the difference between bonking an hour in and being able to cruise for 2h+.

Similarly, overall speed affects this. If you're pushing into the red zone in places (hard breathing and burning legs), you will bonk faster. If you learn to just pad away, keeping the effort steady and not pushing too much, your speed will gradually come up and your energy will last much longer.

In reply to goose299:

Best way to bonk on a long event, I carry them as an emergency aid only now.
Good for immediately post exercise if you can't stomach food

In reply to Pesda potato:

what do you eat on a long event?

In reply to goose299:

I run ~ 30miles and will have a couple of mars bars and also either salted peanuts or fruit and nut mix - I find for long runs I need solid food

Use gels every now and then and use the ones with the cafeine boost when I am really flagging

Also like to suck Nunn tablets or such like - great to stop cramp

In reply to goose299:
I generally do well with flapjacks, they aren't messy, can be home made or bought in various flavours, easy to digest, complex and simple carbs.
Bit of chocolate, crisps, and I quite like nuun kona kola when its hot and i need a boost.

In reply to Pesda Potato


Had to google that.
24 quid for 12 tablets on their own website

Seems a tad expensive.

In reply to goose299:
I certainly wouldnt pay that much!
I got some from Wiggle when they were about £7 but even then I wouldn't use something like that for training usually
Anyways there's no strong evidence to say electrolyte drinks help much so no point in spending loads. Balanced food and water is all we really need

In reply to goose299:





Much cheaper on Wiggle.

In reply to goose299:


It's really hard to give a definitive answer to that, and I'm discovering all sorts myself. I used to use gels quite a bit, but I've had a few runs spoiled with a dodgy tummy, so I've eased off the gels, and the last few long runs (over 20 miles) have been done without gels but with water with electrolyte tablets, and they've gone fine.
Having said that, I can remember a trail half-marathon a few years ago and I'm convinced it was regular caffeinated gels which got me the placing I got. As someone else said, there may be a bit of a placebo effect going on.

In reply to steveej:


To me this is the biggest problem with gels - in ultras I get sick of sweet food and after about 5-6 hours in I can't face another gel. It helps if I only eat a gel every third food, so mix it up with other trail food then I can last longer before going off them. There's no getting round the fact though that even the best tasting ones are pretty disgusting, especially after they've been warmed by the sun in your pack for a few hours.

They're a necessary evil though. For instance last week I ran a 17km trail race, with 1000m of ascent and I fancied being competitive so didn't want to carry a pack and was running hard for 1.45 - a couple of gels stuffed in my pockets were easy to eat and didnt inconvenience my running, and there's no way I could have sustained that effort on no food. A steady training run for two hours though wouldn't have been a problem.

Its the same with road marathons - when you want convenience and less faff they've got their place.


Better luck next time, but like you say its all a learning experience.

In reply to goose299:

I've tried several brands and the High 5 gels (either caffeinated or non caffeinated) were the most to my liking as they seemed to have the most natural flavours and weren't too sweet.

You can't beat proper food though, even just a squashed up jam sandwich or a bit of flapjack and eat it before you feel hungry. No substitute for experience and knowing your body's limits for finding out when you need to eat.

Also bear in mind that the rate of energy absorption into your body is dictated by many factors, one of the main ones being hydration. This, I'm assuming, is why they recommend drinking water with gels, to speed up the rate of energy absorption.

As for the "one gel every 20 minutes during exercise"? I can't imagine stomaching that *bleh* and I doubt any of us punters are expending energy that fast during excercise that we'd need to input that amount of carbohydrate.

In reply to goose299:

Increasing your distance to what?

I don't think you need anything for up to 3 hours if you are going at a steady pace.

If you are going for much longer you are probably going slow enough to stomach real food.

In reply to goose299:




You don't need gels or anything else for a 10k or a 10 miler. I guess you struggled on the last few miles of your 10 miler because you are not used to running 10 miles, not because you needed gels.

In reply to goose299:

Very nice as well,....very generous, good forums as well.

In reply to The New NickB:

I'd agree with that. A marathon can be done without food.

OP - if you're running all day you need an eating strategy and gels are ideal for eating on the go when your body is saying no to food.

I personally always take something like a gel on a training run in case it goes horribly wrong. They get me home if I'm having a bad day.

In reply to yorkshireman:


This. When I have done longer bike rides (5 hours +) there comes a point where I just can't stomach sports nutrition products any more. Partly it is how sweet they make everything.

Recently I got this book, which is excellent:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=feed+zone+portables
and have been making rice cakes to take with me, which are vastly, vastly more palatable after a few hours exercise. Real food is the way forwards.

In reply to goose299:

Thanks for all the advise

In reply to goose299:

I need the extra energy for fast half marathons (can't say I have done anything longer). I cant stomach the regular gels as I find most of them need to be taken with water which I typically don't carry for races where there are water stops.

To this end I found High 5 Isogels good. Thinner than normal ones, you essentially have a slightly diluted gel you can drink without water. I found them quite palatable.

In reply to goose299:
I'm a bit late to the party here, but recently I've been having a bit of success with a home-made energy gel... espresso or ristretto strength coffee stirred into the base of a white chocolate tiramisu mix* and poured into a 250ml flexible pouch.

*White chocolate tiramisu mix - melt white chocolate in a bain marie, add egg yolks (keep the whites) and stir well, add marscapone and keep mixing with an electric whisk until light and fluffy. Meanwhile, in another bowl, whisk the whites until stiff peaks, fold half into the white chocolate mixture, pour the mixture back onto the remaining egg whites and fold gently together. Spoon over boudoir biscuits soaked in strong coffee and the 40% booze of your choice (whisky or rum for me, brandy also works, I wouldn't recommend anything aniseedy) and placed into little coffee cups or dessert glasses or a big communal serving bowl. Leave in the fridge for at least an hour to set (or don't, it's also delicious when still soft and flowing), dust with cocoa, serve with more of the booze of your choice.

Of course, don't forget to keep back enough of the mix to fill the flask 3/5s or 4/5s of the way (depending on the strength of coffee and the desired strength of the goo), then stir in your espresso or ristretto, pour into your flask, and go for a jog.


edit
My recommendation for a packaged gel, the nicest I've found so far, is the Maxifuel Viper Active Gel, lemon and lime flavour. Towards the end of a particularly hellish jog a while ago, I found myself craving one of these gels stirred into some ice-cold tonic water with a shot of freezer-kept vodka and a couple of frozen lime wedges. Didn't get one, and had to climb up another col for 1400m instead.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

You've just reminded me of the guy I rode some of the Fred Whitton with - regular swigs from a soft flask of neat honey. Oh and a mate that ate nothing but Kendal Mint Cake for 24h on the BGR. I guess you have to really like sugar.

In reply to SteveRi:
I've used honey a lot, it's a great fuel, but it does start to cloy after eight hours of it. I used to mix it with a little lemon juice for flavour (and the ease of getting it into the pouch... mix it in a small cup, take gobful into your mouth, squirt it into a screw-top gel pouch that used to hold an absolutely disgusting beetroot-flavoured concoction that I had to buy once out of necessity), but the increased acids didn't really work well towards the end of a long run.

I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'm going to experiment with 50/50 yoghurt and honey, and see if that works.