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New BMC Limestone North Guide

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astley007 08 Jun 2015
Am suprised that no-one has mentioned anything on here about it?
Good? Bad? Indifferent?
Spotting the errors?
I have a copy and seen a lot of climbers wandering round the dale and other places with theirs.
Looks like a lot of hard work has been put into producing a excellent guide.
Waiting for BMC Peak limestone South now
Cheers
In reply to astley007: People don't climb trad limestone in the Peak anymore, that's probably why. Plus they'll be exhausted after that Scoop Wall business.

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 deacondeacon 08 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:

It's a great book and I really appreciate all the effort that's gone into it. Fantastic photos and great topos. Some really nice bits of writing too.
I do have a couple of gripes though. There's no first ascensionist notes in the route descriptions or at the back if the book. That is one of the whole points of a definitive book.
Also no minus ten or toms roof topos which is admittedly a minor gripe.
astley007 08 Jun 2015
In reply to deacondeacon:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/peak-limestone-nort--web-support

Here is the answer to the first ascent list not been included
Cheers
 Simon Caldwell 08 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:
I guess that's way things are going, but I still think it's a shame.
Those FA sections are one of the things that differentiates definitives from Rockfax. Another was the inclusion of minor crags, which are also now web only. I can understand relegating dangerous or seriously banned crags to the web (though sometimes a reputation for loose rock is not totally deserved). But surely if a crag is missed out of the guide just because not many climb there, then that just perpetuates the situation?

Edit: and I've just noticed that the web-only crags aren't included in the web-only FA list, so there history for these is no longer available. Is this deliberate? Some of the earliest recorded peak limestone routes were at Peter Dale.
Post edited at 12:21
 remus Global Crag Moderator 08 Jun 2015
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Also no minus ten or toms roof topos which is admittedly a minor gripe.

Why would you need a topo for Tom's roof? There's only 1 line! (admittedly with ~100k variations).
 Graeme Hammond 08 Jun 2015
In reply to Simon Caldwell:


> Those FA sections are one of the things that differentiates definitives from Rockfax.

Except the rockfax limestone guide shows the full first accent date and individuals under each route. Its a disgrace as far as I'm concerned regardless of how good the rest of the book is. Other bmc guides proudly state that they cover all the routes and history. I think the solution is to bring out a historic suppliment including more history /historical photos to expand the current excellent sections and the full FA list to be bbrought out as a bundle with the limestone south guide when it is published.
 Phil West 08 Jun 2015
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

The new BMC guides are some of the most excellent cutting edge climbing guides available. I own all the gritstone ones and will buy the limestone guides too. They are no longer definitive guides though and some crags or sections of crags are missed out. The first ascent sections used to be such great reading but I'd be happy for it to live online or in an archive tome such as the excellent Peak Rock by Phil Kelly et al. To not mention the first ascentionist and the date at all I think is where Rockfax have it right. @deacondeacon - 'that's the whole point of a definitive guide' - that's in your opinion, not the opinion of the guidebook writers it seems.
 Oliver Houston 08 Jun 2015
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Disgrace is a bit far isn't it... As far as I can tell (from less than a minute of looking) they have done pretty much exactly as you suggest, only they've put the supplements online for free!

I guess if you wanted to, you could get them printed and professionally bound to make your own supplements.
Personally for a climbing guidebook, I'd rather have more routes, more crags etc. in the book than the FA info.
 Misha 08 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:

It would be good to get the FA name not just the year which is what RF do. It makes it more immediate - 'this is a Proctor route' etc. Reasons of space I suppose.
astley007 09 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:

None of the "older" climbers on here spotted the "deliberate??" mistake on one of the photos in the guide?
In reply to astley007:

I'm not old (well...I'm nearly 30!) but the only one I spotted was the one of Ron Fawcett 'on Body Machine', when it is actually The Prow - was that the one you meant?
 duchessofmalfi 09 Jun 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKC:

It would be rather nice if the BMC published a map showing the coverage for the North and South editions...
 Offwidth 09 Jun 2015
In reply to duchessofmalfi:

The main map is on the inside cover with page numbers for the indicated areas, where the first thing after the area intro page photo is a map showing the area crags?
astley007 09 Jun 2015
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKC:

Hi Rob,
Spot on....that makes you old!!
Free copy of the guide, making it way to you! but presume you already have one?
So anyone found any spelling mistakes?
Grading mistakes not acceptable!!! lol
Cheers
In reply to astley007:

In which case I feel honoured to be old.

I bought a copy the day it came out, it's definitely got me psyched to get out/about and explore a few other areas. I've been a little guilty of going to back to the Tor again and again (and again!) without really removing the blinkers, whilst this does yield positive results in terms of projects climbed there isn't too much adventure or exploration within the process - always nice to go and climb somewhere new!

On that note, what am I doing still at work - it's nearly 6pm! I'm off climbing...

 Offwidth 09 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:
Like every guide there are plenty of mistakes despite the sterling efforts to get things right.. We even left one typo in Froggatt because we felt it was funny and survived so many drafts that it deserved to live! On both fronts I'm saying nothing more of the details.

Rockfax still lead on Peak guides on spelling my name wrong.
Post edited at 17:53
 Graham Hoey 11 Jun 2015
In reply to Offwidth:

> Rockfax still lead on Peak guides on spelling my name wrong.


Is your name really Steve Wrong?
 Offwidth 11 Jun 2015
In reply to Graham Hoey:
It may as well be ... as an ex BMC editor and long-standing, rounded (in many senses) trouble maker, I'm hardly easy to overlook; still guidebooks try and peddle me "e"s.

EG credits both of me but this hyde side (interestingly where Moff originates) is mostly responsible for the routes I never strictly speaking intended to claim (but did record as obviously done before) which gives them scope to include pretty shit routes in a selective guide and have some healthy fun with them (I probably owe Chris a pint for his wit .

Being serious for a moment I do really appreciate the effort that has gone into this book, including the (much better) proofing efforts in the main crag pages. My limestone exploits (outside Aldery and Staden) are mainly in the next volume though.

Edited for shit, initial proofing
Post edited at 18:03
 Marcus Buckley 14 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:

I can't wait to get hold of a copy of this but I'll have to wait a while before I can put it to good use! Looking forward to some inspirational picture ticks
 Rob Davies 15 Jun 2015
In reply to Offwidth:

> Rockfax still lead on Peak guides on spelling my name wrong.

Do they put a superfluous hyphen in "Offwidth"?

 Offwidth 15 Jun 2015
In reply to Rob Davies:

Ha! I think the only time Rockfax used my 'avatar' in a guidebook was the alternative name for the eponymous problem at Gorilla Warfare... some of Niall's jokes are obviously a little too childish for them.
 Marcus Buckley 16 Jun 2015
In reply to astley007:

Just picked up a copy of the guide, it looks fantastic! Though flicking through the pages with 2 casts on and the use of only 1 thumb is not particularly easy. Perhaps the BMC could address this issue for the benefit of future injured climbers
 Offwidth 16 Jun 2015
In reply to Marcus Buckley:

I'm sure we can arrange to break the working thumb
In reply to Marcus Buckley:

Hi Marcus, what have you done?
Cheers
Chris
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