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Determined to break the grade this year and onsight a good few.
I'm looking for well pro and not totally strenuous, steep with good holds suits, non grit, England and Wales.
A few I'm looking at incl Ocean Boulevard, Butcher, Space Cadet, Black Ice, The Cull, Mad dogs and Englishman, Centrefold, Dervish. Bit stumped for N Wales as those in the pass/gogarth seem nails/scary. Any on peak lime to target? Inspiration and confidence inspiring wisdom welcome.
I'm looking for well pro and not totally strenuous, steep with good holds suits, non grit, England and Wales.
A few I'm looking at incl Ocean Boulevard, Butcher, Space Cadet, Black Ice, The Cull, Mad dogs and Englishman, Centrefold, Dervish. Bit stumped for N Wales as those in the pass/gogarth seem nails/scary. Any on peak lime to target? Inspiration and confidence inspiring wisdom welcome.
In reply to Owen W-G:
All of the easiest ones I've tried were in North Wales. These I did onsight:
Dervish - my first (? I forget now). Fine.
Daurigol - awkward and tricky rather than strenuous
November - steep and good holds, pumpy I guess. Would only get E2 in the peak.
(Btw Silhouette is better than both).
Anchovy Madonna and the E3 next to Mr Chips are steady too but they both have some bolts so don't feel quite kosher.
ElGuide Direct, Rembrandt Pussyhorse - seemed ok but I wasn't leading. The latter is a bit bold near the start but a short route so not much fitness needed. Memory Lane seemed ok, bit bold perhaps.
Seconded a couple of E3s at Reecastle - well protected but hard.
Mad dogs is nails. Majolica at beeston is ok. Black Grub is well protected and should be ok if you're fit, I failed on it though due to general ineptitude.
Stuff at Chee tor might be ok but it's all quite fingery - I find you have to be going well on limestones and conditions are fickle. Of Youth perhaps the best one to try first - pretty safe.
Everything I've tried on grit I've failed on although Black Hawk Bastard is great and I did that after a couple of attempts.
All of the easiest ones I've tried were in North Wales. These I did onsight:
Dervish - my first (? I forget now). Fine.
Daurigol - awkward and tricky rather than strenuous
November - steep and good holds, pumpy I guess. Would only get E2 in the peak.
(Btw Silhouette is better than both).
Anchovy Madonna and the E3 next to Mr Chips are steady too but they both have some bolts so don't feel quite kosher.
ElGuide Direct, Rembrandt Pussyhorse - seemed ok but I wasn't leading. The latter is a bit bold near the start but a short route so not much fitness needed. Memory Lane seemed ok, bit bold perhaps.
Seconded a couple of E3s at Reecastle - well protected but hard.
Mad dogs is nails. Majolica at beeston is ok. Black Grub is well protected and should be ok if you're fit, I failed on it though due to general ineptitude.
Stuff at Chee tor might be ok but it's all quite fingery - I find you have to be going well on limestones and conditions are fickle. Of Youth perhaps the best one to try first - pretty safe.
Everything I've tried on grit I've failed on although Black Hawk Bastard is great and I did that after a couple of attempts.
17
In reply to Owen W-G:
Some you already have but this list might be worth a look
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=782
Some you already have but this list might be worth a look
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=782
In reply to Owen W-G:
Pembroke:
Butcher is a couple of good moves in an unadventurous setting surrounded by spectators - fun but uninspiring. Space Cadet is similar and somewhat f6b/+. Better and not harder really is Ghost Train which feels much more like proper trad climbing. Better still (of course) are the Mother Careys E3s - Star Gate is easier, Zeppelin has a proper stopper move (5c my arse). Pleasure Dome is a great route and not hard for the grade if you're fit (certainly no moves like the Zeppelin crux) - but probably an absolute bastard if you get pumped.
On a similar note the Sharpnose E3s (and E4s) are walks in the park for the wall-trained. Great routes, wonderful setting, brilliant stuff.
Further down the South West (as I was saying on another thread) the granite routes are horrible. Dream Liberator is nowhere near E3: if you don't have an E5 leader handy, you'll probably die. The other Bosi routes are just as hard but not death-traps and you'll only have the humiliation to deal with. But round at Gurnard's is the best E3 ever, Mastodon - if you can get past the damp, scary, slippery start it's absolute magic.
Some Gogarth E3s are fine. The Moon is piss, E1 climbing in intimidating territory - at least when things are going well (I've done it in good and bad conditions and it felt very different!); Assassin is just fantastic; Big Groove is OK; Kalahari if you don't mind easy climbing on a choss route with limited gear. At Rhoscolyn Centrefold is fantastic (but expect plenty of climbing), Mask of the Red Death is easier.
In the Lakes Roaring Silence is not hard at the grade and really really good...struggling to think if I've done others...oh yes, a brilliant pitch called GTX on Raven Threshers (Grand Prix had a hard crux, failed on that). And there's a softy at Reecastle, Guillotine but White Noise is harder (but brilliant).
Should be a few to go at there.
Pembroke:
Butcher is a couple of good moves in an unadventurous setting surrounded by spectators - fun but uninspiring. Space Cadet is similar and somewhat f6b/+. Better and not harder really is Ghost Train which feels much more like proper trad climbing. Better still (of course) are the Mother Careys E3s - Star Gate is easier, Zeppelin has a proper stopper move (5c my arse). Pleasure Dome is a great route and not hard for the grade if you're fit (certainly no moves like the Zeppelin crux) - but probably an absolute bastard if you get pumped.
On a similar note the Sharpnose E3s (and E4s) are walks in the park for the wall-trained. Great routes, wonderful setting, brilliant stuff.
Further down the South West (as I was saying on another thread) the granite routes are horrible. Dream Liberator is nowhere near E3: if you don't have an E5 leader handy, you'll probably die. The other Bosi routes are just as hard but not death-traps and you'll only have the humiliation to deal with. But round at Gurnard's is the best E3 ever, Mastodon - if you can get past the damp, scary, slippery start it's absolute magic.
Some Gogarth E3s are fine. The Moon is piss, E1 climbing in intimidating territory - at least when things are going well (I've done it in good and bad conditions and it felt very different!); Assassin is just fantastic; Big Groove is OK; Kalahari if you don't mind easy climbing on a choss route with limited gear. At Rhoscolyn Centrefold is fantastic (but expect plenty of climbing), Mask of the Red Death is easier.
In the Lakes Roaring Silence is not hard at the grade and really really good...struggling to think if I've done others...oh yes, a brilliant pitch called GTX on Raven Threshers (Grand Prix had a hard crux, failed on that). And there's a softy at Reecastle, Guillotine but White Noise is harder (but brilliant).
Should be a few to go at there.
Post edited at 00:02
In reply to Owen W-G:
For Peak lime, Chee Tor and Beeston Tor are good. Chee Tor is often a filthy nightmare, but if it's clean and dry Absent Friends is a lovely, safe route with great climbing, and 42nd Street, Approaching and a couple of others provide good, sustained, bold-but-safe stuff that's really worthwhile and satisfying. I've stopped short of the harder E3s: Splintered Perspex and Queer Street which I would expect to be very hard.
For Peak lime, Chee Tor and Beeston Tor are good. Chee Tor is often a filthy nightmare, but if it's clean and dry Absent Friends is a lovely, safe route with great climbing, and 42nd Street, Approaching and a couple of others provide good, sustained, bold-but-safe stuff that's really worthwhile and satisfying. I've stopped short of the harder E3s: Splintered Perspex and Queer Street which I would expect to be very hard.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Thumbscrew at Reecastle is probably the softest of the E3s there (though I still managed to chuck myself off it going the wrong way after the crux). Ocean Boulvard is soft if you're fit - I've only seconded it but the gear is easy and obvious so I wouldn't have found it much harder to lead.
I'm in a similar position to you and with similar tastes so will be watching the thread for recommendations.
Thumbscrew at Reecastle is probably the softest of the E3s there (though I still managed to chuck myself off it going the wrong way after the crux). Ocean Boulvard is soft if you're fit - I've only seconded it but the gear is easy and obvious so I wouldn't have found it much harder to lead.
I'm in a similar position to you and with similar tastes so will be watching the thread for recommendations.
Star Gate and Diamond Smiles definitely on my radar, thanks Jon.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Time for a personal routes forum?
Mature, fun loving on sighter seeks similar minded face for shared achievements. No highballs, sport climbs or other time-wasters please
> Determined to break the grade this year and onsight a good few.
> I'm looking for well pro and not totally strenuous, steep with good holds suits, non grit, England and Wales.
Time for a personal routes forum?
Mature, fun loving on sighter seeks similar minded face for shared achievements. No highballs, sport climbs or other time-wasters please
4
In reply to Owen W-G:
North Wales: Centrefold is definitely a good choice, very steady. Foil on the Cromlech is good, quite technical on the hardest bits, but better holds than it looks overall. El Guide at Hidden Walls is another good one, not too hard, but I'm not sure I'd go there just for that.
Peak: I'll second the Chee Tor suggestion. Absent Friends is steady, good holds and gear. 42nd Street has a little runout bit, but it's quite soft overall. Perseus and Darius at High Tor.
Pembroke: The Butcher is good, but there a far better E3s. Zeppelin is excellent, I thought it wasn't as hard or pumpy as it looked. Despite its steepness I didn't think it was any more pumpy than standard Pembroke E3s, a little harder than Space Cadet. Ghost Ship is a nice steady one at Bosherston.
Cornwall: Not done many at that grade down there. The Ghost was good, reasonable gear and not very hard but a spectacular position.
North Wales: Centrefold is definitely a good choice, very steady. Foil on the Cromlech is good, quite technical on the hardest bits, but better holds than it looks overall. El Guide at Hidden Walls is another good one, not too hard, but I'm not sure I'd go there just for that.
Peak: I'll second the Chee Tor suggestion. Absent Friends is steady, good holds and gear. 42nd Street has a little runout bit, but it's quite soft overall. Perseus and Darius at High Tor.
Pembroke: The Butcher is good, but there a far better E3s. Zeppelin is excellent, I thought it wasn't as hard or pumpy as it looked. Despite its steepness I didn't think it was any more pumpy than standard Pembroke E3s, a little harder than Space Cadet. Ghost Ship is a nice steady one at Bosherston.
Cornwall: Not done many at that grade down there. The Ghost was good, reasonable gear and not very hard but a spectacular position.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
But you don't really mean Ghost Train, do you, Jon?
> Pembroke:
> Better and not harder really is Ghost Train which feels much more like proper trad climbing.
But you don't really mean Ghost Train, do you, Jon?
In reply to Owen W-G:
I did Comes the Dervish and Telli both soft touch E3, but I can now call myself an E3 leader!
I did Comes the Dervish and Telli both soft touch E3, but I can now call myself an E3 leader!
1
In reply to jon:
Does that mean I mean Ghost Ship?
> But you don't really mean Ghost Train, do you, Jon?
Does that mean I mean Ghost Ship?
In reply to Owen W-G:
On the subject of E3s, whatever happened to the 'Best E3s' article? There were E1s and E4s etc, but no 3s?
Mine (England and Wales) would be:
- Mastodon
- Pleasure Dome (Swordfish is another contender down there)
- Roaring Silence (although I haven't done White Wizard which could be better?)
- Assassin
- Archangel
Ones which I've not done which I suspect could make it include Lubyanka and something on Cloggy maybe?
On the subject of E3s, whatever happened to the 'Best E3s' article? There were E1s and E4s etc, but no 3s?
Mine (England and Wales) would be:
- Mastodon
- Pleasure Dome (Swordfish is another contender down there)
- Roaring Silence (although I haven't done White Wizard which could be better?)
- Assassin
- Archangel
Ones which I've not done which I suspect could make it include Lubyanka and something on Cloggy maybe?
In reply to Owen W-G:
Assuming you don't want to go as far as Scotland I'd support The Assassin and The Moon on Gogarth, Lubyanka is great on Cyrn Las and everyone likes West Buttress Eliminate on Cloggy, though I thought it was mildly disappointing. I did Bloody Slab on Cloggy ages ago and remember it as surprisingly well protected and reasonable climbing.
mike
Assuming you don't want to go as far as Scotland I'd support The Assassin and The Moon on Gogarth, Lubyanka is great on Cyrn Las and everyone likes West Buttress Eliminate on Cloggy, though I thought it was mildly disappointing. I did Bloody Slab on Cloggy ages ago and remember it as surprisingly well protected and reasonable climbing.
mike
In reply to Owen W-G:
White Noise at Reecastle was my first. Seemed fine as I recall but it was rather a long time ago now.
White Noise at Reecastle was my first. Seemed fine as I recall but it was rather a long time ago now.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Foil on the Cromlech? Perfect gear...great climbing and I didn't find it too hard at the grade. If you have stamina from sport climbing I think it'd be a good choice.
Foil on the Cromlech? Perfect gear...great climbing and I didn't find it too hard at the grade. If you have stamina from sport climbing I think it'd be a good choice.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Roaring Silence isn't even the best E3 on Scafell, let alone in all the Lake District!
Surely some vegetated Scottish chosspile needs to be in there somewhere?
Roaring Silence isn't even the best E3 on Scafell, let alone in all the Lake District!
> Ones which I've not done which I suspect could make it include Lubyanka and something on Cloggy maybe?
Surely some vegetated Scottish chosspile needs to be in there somewhere?
In reply to Owen W-G:
A few other suggestions from the SW: Them and Ladder of Desire in Avon. Interrogation on Haytor, Penny Lane at Chudleigh (its not 6b), Dreadnought, Kafoozalem. They're all brilliant!
A few other suggestions from the SW: Them and Ladder of Desire in Avon. Interrogation on Haytor, Penny Lane at Chudleigh (its not 6b), Dreadnought, Kafoozalem. They're all brilliant!
In reply to Pagan:
Go on then...? I haven't done many E3s in the Lakes except the ones mentioned above, plus Cruel Sister. When I'm back to climbing E3s again (not this year, totally unfit and time-starved just now) what should be on the list? Vikings? More Scafell East?
Not on an England and Wales list, no.
> Roaring Silence isn't even the best E3 on Scafell, let alone in all the Lake District!
Go on then...? I haven't done many E3s in the Lakes except the ones mentioned above, plus Cruel Sister. When I'm back to climbing E3s again (not this year, totally unfit and time-starved just now) what should be on the list? Vikings? More Scafell East?
> Surely some vegetated Scottish chosspile needs to be in there somewhere?
Not on an England and Wales list, no.
In reply to Owen W-G:
The best E3's I've done are Comes The Dervish and Silly Arete (my first, although in hindsight this was perhaps not my smartest move! Definitely put it on the list, its safe-just- but pretty bold though so not what you're after at the moment).
The Butcher is good, I enjoyed it. Good first one as its juggy and bomber gear, and I would argue much easier for the tall. I fell off Pleasuredome but its amazing, you could place 2 racks in it. Take prussiks though! Space Cadet (fell off this too!) is also great, pumpy but feels awesome cause its so steep- feels like an E5!
Not exactly highlighting my credentials as an E3 leader here, but when I'm going well I haven't found them too much different from a tough E2- its not a massive jump I don't think.
The best E3's I've done are Comes The Dervish and Silly Arete (my first, although in hindsight this was perhaps not my smartest move! Definitely put it on the list, its safe-just- but pretty bold though so not what you're after at the moment).
The Butcher is good, I enjoyed it. Good first one as its juggy and bomber gear, and I would argue much easier for the tall. I fell off Pleasuredome but its amazing, you could place 2 racks in it. Take prussiks though! Space Cadet (fell off this too!) is also great, pumpy but feels awesome cause its so steep- feels like an E5!
Not exactly highlighting my credentials as an E3 leader here, but when I'm going well I haven't found them too much different from a tough E2- its not a massive jump I don't think.
In reply to Owen W-G:
CrookletsSheila (E3 6a)
Great little route, well protected. Definitely not worth the journey down, but if your near Bude its a safe E3. Also I suppose Lower Sharpnose has got a few steep, well protected and easier for the grade if your fit.
CrookletsSheila (E3 6a)
Great little route, well protected. Definitely not worth the journey down, but if your near Bude its a safe E3. Also I suppose Lower Sharpnose has got a few steep, well protected and easier for the grade if your fit.
2
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I thought Nazgul was far better than Roaring Silence (which is a 3* name but only a 2* route); great climbing all the way. I haven't done White Wizard though...
The Gable E3s are brilliant; Sarcophagus is one of the best I've done anywhere (but doesn't really qualify as well protected for the OP). Other obvious safe Lakes E3s are Prana and Eastern Hammer - clean and often chalked too.
I thought Nazgul was far better than Roaring Silence (which is a 3* name but only a 2* route); great climbing all the way. I haven't done White Wizard though...
The Gable E3s are brilliant; Sarcophagus is one of the best I've done anywhere (but doesn't really qualify as well protected for the OP). Other obvious safe Lakes E3s are Prana and Eastern Hammer - clean and often chalked too.
In reply to Owen W-G:
If slate's your thing, then here's a few more suggestions:
Off the Beaten Track is an awesome route, Goose Creature is cruxy, and See You Bruce is pretty steady.
All are bolted where it matters and so, safe, and not too strenuous. Colossus is the other big E3 tick in the quarries (and near the top of my wishlist!!) so can't tell you much, other than the fact that it too is bolted.
If slate's your thing, then here's a few more suggestions:
Off the Beaten Track is an awesome route, Goose Creature is cruxy, and See You Bruce is pretty steady.
All are bolted where it matters and so, safe, and not too strenuous. Colossus is the other big E3 tick in the quarries (and near the top of my wishlist!!) so can't tell you much, other than the fact that it too is bolted.
In reply to kyaizawa:
Off the Beaten Track and Goose Creature aren't really E3 though. They're both sport routes, albeit with a couple of very easy bold moves on Goose Creature to get to the first bolt.
Off the Beaten Track and Goose Creature aren't really E3 though. They're both sport routes, albeit with a couple of very easy bold moves on Goose Creature to get to the first bolt.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Shifter at Burnt Crag in the Lakes is another one for your list. Technical, pretty safe and not too pumpy.
Shifter at Burnt Crag in the Lakes is another one for your list. Technical, pretty safe and not too pumpy.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Some that from around the country that made an impression on me, and fitting the bill of being well protected, good holds etc;
Powerglide - Hardknott Crag
Sai Dancing - Holyhead Mtn
Foil - Cromlech
Sunlover - Pembroke
Pleasure Dome - Pembroke
Them - Avon
Interrogation - Hay Tor
Some that from around the country that made an impression on me, and fitting the bill of being well protected, good holds etc;
Powerglide - Hardknott Crag
Sai Dancing - Holyhead Mtn
Foil - Cromlech
Sunlover - Pembroke
Pleasure Dome - Pembroke
Them - Avon
Interrogation - Hay Tor
In reply to Owen W-G:
In agreement for the ones on the ramp at Avon. There are also some good E2's in a similar vein. And the Arms Race for afters (E4). Well protected fun the lot.
You mention Ocean Boulevard I assume at Swanage. This is sport climbing with trad gear! Bomber placements at bolt spacing. I'd throw someone on it for their first E3 without concern for their safety even if I thought they may fail (given hat they were OK with that).
Peak - Scoop wall @ Stoney? It is on the whole well protected, but polished.
How about deep water solos?
In agreement for the ones on the ramp at Avon. There are also some good E2's in a similar vein. And the Arms Race for afters (E4). Well protected fun the lot.
You mention Ocean Boulevard I assume at Swanage. This is sport climbing with trad gear! Bomber placements at bolt spacing. I'd throw someone on it for their first E3 without concern for their safety even if I thought they may fail (given hat they were OK with that).
Peak - Scoop wall @ Stoney? It is on the whole well protected, but polished.
How about deep water solos?
In reply to Owen W-G:
surprised no Lundy routes yet
Great Divide & Golden Gate - need thread in place or to place it yourself
Promised Land - astoundingly good
Bender - thought this hard
surprised no Lundy routes yet
Great Divide & Golden Gate - need thread in place or to place it yourself
Promised Land - astoundingly good
Bender - thought this hard
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