UKC Forums - Bolts at Hagg wood!

Bolts at Hagg wood!

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freemanTom 25 Jun 2015

I was climbing at Swaledale's premier crag Hagg Wood on Tuesday with the Cleveland MC and found some shiny new bolts to the right of Rack Crack.
Pictures linked below:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=260403
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=260404
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=260405

Anyone have any information or justification for adding bolts to what is currently a undervalued trad crag?
I am no rabid anti bolter but see no reason for these bolts to be there and if someone was trying to create a bolted line they have done a poor job.

For those unfamiliar with Hagg Wood its a natural limestone outcrop just outside Richmond in Yorkshire. Its mostly pleasant easy Trad following crack lines and corners unfortunately marred by dirty slightly loose finishes. It deserves more traffic than it gets especially with recently improved parking and access, though it will never be more than a local crag for local people.

Simon Caldwell 25 Jun 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Hopefully they won't stay there for long.

But tell me about the recently improved parking and access - last time I tried going there wasn't anywhere to park legally.

OP freemanTom 25 Jun 2015

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Grass area just before the caravan site has been leveled and has plenty of space.
New path goes up from this parking spot. Are intermittent green dots on trees heading up and left or head straight up gully to ridge where marker posts show the way.

If I find time will have a go at removing the hangars in near future, don't have the requisite experience to remove the stubs.

guisboro andy 25 Jun 2015

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

On the lhs of road just before entrance to campsite. path up marked by green dots on trees.
We had several cars parked safely

lithos 30 Jun 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Tom from the 'current' guidebook http://www.climbonline.co.uk/PDFs/Swaledale%20PDF.pdf

"In the future fixed lowering points from twin bolts could serve
the purpose of alleviating stress in the leader and protecting the unstable tree-covered slope
above the crag from unnecessary erosion. This would in no way detract from the routes as
the finishes certainly have little technical merit. "

54ms 30 Jun 2015

In reply to lithos:

Bolted lower offs seem a very sensible idea!

Also why remove part of the bolt if you can't do the job properly?

The Pylon King 30 Jun 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Looks like a nice little crag.

deepstar 30 Jun 2015

In reply to Pylon King Against Capit@lism:

> Looks like a nice little crag.

A bit like Dinder Wood.

The Pylon King 30 Jun 2015

In reply to deepstar:

Exactly!

54ms 30 Jun 2015

In reply to Pylon King Against Capit@lism:

It's alright if it's on your doorstep, but not worth travelling to.

I suggested a few bolted routes at Applegarth a few years ago on lines that haven't been done before. Despite me having to garden the severs and v diffs that season so they were climbable, there was a lot of resistance from people who loved the crag (but obviously didn't climb there due to the complete lack of traffic)

Simon Caldwell 01 Jul 2015

In reply to 54ms:

The problem with bolted lower offs on some routes would be finding solid rock to put them in! And the routes with solid rock at the top don't need lower offs, you can use trees. This is on the basis of a single visit and 5 routes so obviously a definitive statement.

It's a nice place, much better than it looks when you arrive

OP freemanTom 01 Jul 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

The bolts aren't lower offs, if they were I would have no objection. I understand the reasoning for lower offs but the rock at the top of the crag is generally very broken and I personally wouldn't want to lower off bolts in a loose blocks. Plenty of trees to pre place slings if you so desire.

lithos 01 Jul 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Hi Tom,

i was there last night with Simon and those bolts are in the HVS Holy Moses Direct
(double bolt, bent stub, single bolt, single bolt) which i led without them (but with a brush!)
The top bolt would make a good lower off position rather than the mud/loose block adventure
to get to the tree)

very odd carry on !

paul mitchell 02 Jul 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Curious lack of concern re these bolts.Double standards for different crags and different rock types.

Kemics 02 Jul 2015

In reply to lithos:

Sounds like a poor job of retro bolting. Very strange. I'm usually fairly anti bolts but this is a clear case of chop chop

Lankyman 02 Jul 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Haven't climbed here for 20 years and thought it was a very pleasant venue - definitely not a candidate for retro-bolting. None of my guidebook scribbles mention problems getting off the tops (but I had had a few trips down to Swanage by then).

Mike Conlon 02 Jul 2015

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

The BMC RAD was recently updated to reflect the new parking arrangements, route through woods and presence of bolts. Feedback on clarity welcome.

Simon Caldwell 02 Jul 2015

In reply to Mike Conlon:

> Feedback on clarity welcome.

The BMC site says to head straight up from the parking area for 100m. You actually go about 50m, then head diagonally left for another 50m, at which point you'll find the paint marks.

I tried leaving feedback on the BMC site to this effect, but the feedback form is broken. It was broken when I tried leaving feedback on a different crag about 18 months ago, so presumably I reported the fault to the wrong email address.

Simon Caldwell 02 Jul 2015

In reply to paul mitchell:

Not at all. The few people who go there seem unanimous that the bolts should go. Whoever is first there with the necessary tools and knowledge will do the deed. The reason there's not been more uproar can be fathomed if you check the logbooks and see the number of ascents!

Doghouse 02 Jul 2015

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

And also no-one came on here bragging about their 'brilliant' new route

Mike Conlon 02 Jul 2015

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Thanks for the feedback, sorry about your earlier difficulties. I will ammend as I tend to overestimate.

OP freemanTom 05 Jul 2015

In reply to freemanTom:

Done half the job, I have removed the hangars. Don't have the skill set to do a good job of removing the stubs. Found some wood lice in one of the bolt holes which I'm pretty sure isn't textbook.