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I'm looking to replace my old Wild Country harness which has seven loops I use for trad, that i've grown used to. Does anyone have any recommendations?
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In reply to Jackwd:
DMM Renegade. Brilliant harness. I've got the old model but I have only heard good things about the new one.
DMM Renegade. Brilliant harness. I've got the old model but I have only heard good things about the new one.
4
In reply to Jackwd:
I used to have DMM renegade which had 7 small gear loops, I have recently changed to the new arc teryx harness which has 4 massive gear loops and a small one in the middle at the back. I much prefer having the four massive gear loops, it just seems easier to use, so it might be worth having a look at some other options.
I used to have DMM renegade which had 7 small gear loops, I have recently changed to the new arc teryx harness which has 4 massive gear loops and a small one in the middle at the back. I much prefer having the four massive gear loops, it just seems easier to use, so it might be worth having a look at some other options.
1
2
In reply to jon:
Your latest 100 logged climbs are all sport.
Seven gear lops is about right for trad IMO.
Martin
Your latest 100 logged climbs are all sport.
Seven gear lops is about right for trad IMO.
Martin
1
In reply to Jackwd:
What do people here think of this one?
http://www.holdbreaker.com/collections/harnesses/products/webee-quattro
What do people here think of this one?
http://www.holdbreaker.com/collections/harnesses/products/webee-quattro
In reply to Martin Hore:
Jesus Martin, that's about as stupid/relevant as me saying 'you live in Ipswich and wear socks with your rock shoes'.
> Your latest 100 logged climbs are all sport.
Jesus Martin, that's about as stupid/relevant as me saying 'you live in Ipswich and wear socks with your rock shoes'.
1
In reply to Jackwd:
I agree with Jon. I have a BD Chaos with only 4 gear loops and I have never had a problem getting all the gear on it.
Al
I agree with Jon. I have a BD Chaos with only 4 gear loops and I have never had a problem getting all the gear on it.
Al
In reply to GridNorth:
Getting all the gear on isn't the issue for me. It's preventing it getting too bunched up. I prefer at least 5 loops.
> I agree with Jon. I have a BD Chaos with only 4 gear loops and I have never had a problem getting all the gear on it.
> Al
Getting all the gear on isn't the issue for me. It's preventing it getting too bunched up. I prefer at least 5 loops.
2
In reply to David Coley:
Big gun is for aid climbing, it has huge padding and is bulky, less than ideal for free climbing. However, Metolius Waldo is even better, with two belay loops! (I have it, feels like sitting in an armchair)
Big gun is for aid climbing, it has huge padding and is bulky, less than ideal for free climbing. However, Metolius Waldo is even better, with two belay loops! (I have it, feels like sitting in an armchair)
In reply to Jackwd:
I have a DMM Maverick harness which has 7 gear loops and I can thoroughly recommend it.
I have a DMM Maverick harness which has 7 gear loops and I can thoroughly recommend it.
In reply to Jackwd:
You need this matey. It will give you loads of space to carry the 6 essential 4 inch cams and the double set of HB offsett micro wires, the triple set of nuts and the double set of of offsett Aliens you need for a Sunday afternoon on Stanage.
http://cdn.outdoorgearlab.com/photos/0/98/131296_1011_L.jpg
Boggy
You need this matey. It will give you loads of space to carry the 6 essential 4 inch cams and the double set of HB offsett micro wires, the triple set of nuts and the double set of of offsett Aliens you need for a Sunday afternoon on Stanage.
http://cdn.outdoorgearlab.com/photos/0/98/131296_1011_L.jpg
Boggy
2
In reply to Jackwd:
I bought a renegade after a good sales pitch. The angle of the gear loops mean gear ends up hanging round your knees and between your legs. I find it extremely annoying. Also find 7 gear loops complete overkill. 5 is perfect for me and is what I will get for my next harness! I use two front loops for nuts/cams, next set back for QDs and the last set for slings&biners and are basically empty. Rear loop has a chalk bag and prussic. With 5 loops all slings and biners go on the rear loop out of the way nicely. Or slings go over shoulder. Other than that its not particularly comfortable on me. Because the whole thing can slide around the main webbing it often ends up at weird angles and is tricky to do up properly (maybe I'm useless). Cant really think of anything positive to say. I tolerate it and will buy a new one when I can afford it!
I bought a renegade after a good sales pitch. The angle of the gear loops mean gear ends up hanging round your knees and between your legs. I find it extremely annoying. Also find 7 gear loops complete overkill. 5 is perfect for me and is what I will get for my next harness! I use two front loops for nuts/cams, next set back for QDs and the last set for slings&biners and are basically empty. Rear loop has a chalk bag and prussic. With 5 loops all slings and biners go on the rear loop out of the way nicely. Or slings go over shoulder. Other than that its not particularly comfortable on me. Because the whole thing can slide around the main webbing it often ends up at weird angles and is tricky to do up properly (maybe I'm useless). Cant really think of anything positive to say. I tolerate it and will buy a new one when I can afford it!
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
Some people seem to really hate the Renegade but if the padding is slipping I wonder if you even have the best size for you? I've been using one for 8 years and don't remember ever noticing the padding slipping - in fact the sliding waist belt is great because you always have your gear racks perfectly centred without the harness needing two buckles.
For the OP - I'm not sure if many harnesses besides the DMM ones come with 7 loops, so you probably don't have too much choice.
My review of the original Renegade: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1333 and then the nice people at DMM sent me the updated version to try a few summers ago: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/dmm-renegade-harness-review...
Some people seem to really hate the Renegade but if the padding is slipping I wonder if you even have the best size for you? I've been using one for 8 years and don't remember ever noticing the padding slipping - in fact the sliding waist belt is great because you always have your gear racks perfectly centred without the harness needing two buckles.
For the OP - I'm not sure if many harnesses besides the DMM ones come with 7 loops, so you probably don't have too much choice.
My review of the original Renegade: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1333 and then the nice people at DMM sent me the updated version to try a few summers ago: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/dmm-renegade-harness-review...
In reply to Andy Morley:
What's the benefit of having two belay loops?
> What do people here think of this one?
What's the benefit of having two belay loops?
In reply to Jackwd:
Go to a shop and try on all that are vaguely of the right spec. Buy the one that fits best.
jk
Go to a shop and try on all that are vaguely of the right spec. Buy the one that fits best.
jk
In reply to Jackwd:
Happy with my new WC Summit, lighter than the ancient BD harness I had before. Seven loops are good for winter.
CB
Happy with my new WC Summit, lighter than the ancient BD harness I had before. Seven loops are good for winter.
CB
In reply to jon:
Hi Jon
Just looked deeper into your profile and discovered that you are Jon de Montjoye - not at all obvious at first glance. So, first, many thanks for all the hard work on Pembroke guidebooks that I greatly appreciated on my early visits.
I don't think the impression that comes across in someone's profile is irrelevant when assessing the validity of their forum posts. It's pretty clear from my profile, even without any logged routes, that I'm an old fashioned Ron Hill clad mid-grade traddy. At first glance your profile seems to suggest a committed sport climber who hasn't climbed trad since around 1980, and not a lot before that, which is clearly a huge false impression.
I stick with my point though. I don't think I'm over-equipped on trad leads and I would struggle to get everything neatly onto four gear loops, especially once you include the nut extractor, belay krabs, prussic loops etc. My vote is for seven.
Good to see you wearing Ron Hills on Hand Jive by the way. (Volume 3 page 35) - I couldn't count the gear loops but I think you can see some red socks poking out of the top of your EBs!
Martin
> Jesus Martin, that's about as stupid/relevant as me saying 'you live in Ipswich and wear socks with your rock shoes'.
Hi Jon
Just looked deeper into your profile and discovered that you are Jon de Montjoye - not at all obvious at first glance. So, first, many thanks for all the hard work on Pembroke guidebooks that I greatly appreciated on my early visits.
I don't think the impression that comes across in someone's profile is irrelevant when assessing the validity of their forum posts. It's pretty clear from my profile, even without any logged routes, that I'm an old fashioned Ron Hill clad mid-grade traddy. At first glance your profile seems to suggest a committed sport climber who hasn't climbed trad since around 1980, and not a lot before that, which is clearly a huge false impression.
I stick with my point though. I don't think I'm over-equipped on trad leads and I would struggle to get everything neatly onto four gear loops, especially once you include the nut extractor, belay krabs, prussic loops etc. My vote is for seven.
Good to see you wearing Ron Hills on Hand Jive by the way. (Volume 3 page 35) - I couldn't count the gear loops but I think you can see some red socks poking out of the top of your EBs!
Martin
Post edited at 10:35
In reply to Doghouse:
One benefit is redundancy, as the belay loop is often the part that wears most quickly.
There's also a minor benefit in that if you use one of the loops to attach to your anchors and the other for your belay device you avoid any multi-direction pulling or twisting of a single loop. Effectively it becomes the same as using your rope loop for anchoring, but with the flexibility of not needing to use your rope as part of the belay, which can be useful if you need to swap ends for any reason.
See http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1129 for why using separate loops can have marginal advantages in some situations.
> What's the benefit of having two belay loops?
One benefit is redundancy, as the belay loop is often the part that wears most quickly.
There's also a minor benefit in that if you use one of the loops to attach to your anchors and the other for your belay device you avoid any multi-direction pulling or twisting of a single loop. Effectively it becomes the same as using your rope loop for anchoring, but with the flexibility of not needing to use your rope as part of the belay, which can be useful if you need to swap ends for any reason.
See http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1129 for why using separate loops can have marginal advantages in some situations.
In reply to Doghouse:
It's a bigwall thing innit?
More seriously, I believe its so you have full strength attachment points for two daisy chains/etriers, a cows tail, a belay device etc etc. Just like why that model has loads of gear loops. Aid climbing is so much about being organised and you just have lots of stuff attached to the front of your harness! My mate has the simple version - just for normal climbing of that Occun harness, and it looks great. Super light and simple and he says that plastic mesh is perfectly comfy.
It's a bigwall thing innit?
More seriously, I believe its so you have full strength attachment points for two daisy chains/etriers, a cows tail, a belay device etc etc. Just like why that model has loads of gear loops. Aid climbing is so much about being organised and you just have lots of stuff attached to the front of your harness! My mate has the simple version - just for normal climbing of that Occun harness, and it looks great. Super light and simple and he says that plastic mesh is perfectly comfy.
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
New Renegade has reangled the front two loops so stuff slides back rather than forwards (although I think I slightly preferred the plastic-covered loops. I am a slightly awkward size unfortunately; my old Renegade was a medium and although it was slightly too big it meant the padding came right to the front, bringing the gear loops with it. My new Renegade 2 is a small and this means when I am not wearing lots of clothing there is more spare strap and the padding (and the gear loops) sits further back; this also contributes to the padding occasionally slipping (since there is more bare tape showing. If I was a slightly different size I think it would be fine! Maybe I should wear the old one for winter (where I am effectively fat enough)...
I tend to (over)fill the front 4 loops and put a bit less stuff on the back 2 loops; I like the extra loops.
Following the wisdom of AK, I don't put anything on my rear loop except prussiks (although he also argues 4 gear loops are enough).
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragmanship/view/harness_real_estate_the_rear_g...
New Renegade has reangled the front two loops so stuff slides back rather than forwards (although I think I slightly preferred the plastic-covered loops. I am a slightly awkward size unfortunately; my old Renegade was a medium and although it was slightly too big it meant the padding came right to the front, bringing the gear loops with it. My new Renegade 2 is a small and this means when I am not wearing lots of clothing there is more spare strap and the padding (and the gear loops) sits further back; this also contributes to the padding occasionally slipping (since there is more bare tape showing. If I was a slightly different size I think it would be fine! Maybe I should wear the old one for winter (where I am effectively fat enough)...
I tend to (over)fill the front 4 loops and put a bit less stuff on the back 2 loops; I like the extra loops.
Following the wisdom of AK, I don't put anything on my rear loop except prussiks (although he also argues 4 gear loops are enough).
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragmanship/view/harness_real_estate_the_rear_g...
In reply to john arran:
It also looks John, like you could cut the shorter one off if the rise wasn't sufficient.
It also looks John, like you could cut the shorter one off if the rise wasn't sufficient.
In reply to jon:
Seems like a drastic thing to do to a brand new harness. Anyway I'm a bloke, me, so the rise would be fine
Seems like a drastic thing to do to a brand new harness. Anyway I'm a bloke, me, so the rise would be fine
In reply to Jackwd:
In regard to having seven gear loops, it helps me know where everything is. Makes it easy when you're going for that desperate clip and it's just what i'm used to. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
In regard to having seven gear loops, it helps me know where everything is. Makes it easy when you're going for that desperate clip and it's just what i'm used to. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
In reply to john arran:
Save them making a womens specific one though.
> Seems like a drastic thing to do to a brand new harness.
Save them making a womens specific one though.
In reply to Jackwd:
Some kind of big wall specialist jobbie by Misty Mountain, presumably? They seem to have a cult following, don't know what the situation is with ordering from the States though.
Some kind of big wall specialist jobbie by Misty Mountain, presumably? They seem to have a cult following, don't know what the situation is with ordering from the States though.
In reply to odari:
It can be used for aid, but it works really well for trad with a big rack. I think the Waldo is heavier. I also like the fact that the big gun has old-fashion double-back buckles. I find more modern buckles can slip during the day with a heavy rack. (No idea of the Waldo's buckles.)
> Big gun is for aid climbing, it has huge padding and is bulky, less than ideal for free climbing. However, Metolius Waldo is even better, with two belay loops! (I have it, feels like sitting in an armchair)
It can be used for aid, but it works really well for trad with a big rack. I think the Waldo is heavier. I also like the fact that the big gun has old-fashion double-back buckles. I find more modern buckles can slip during the day with a heavy rack. (No idea of the Waldo's buckles.)
In reply to Martin Hore:
My book's temporarily lost in any one of hundreds of cardboard boxes in a neighbours barn awaiting new accommodation... but it's more than likely they are not actually Ron Hills?
As for the harness, if it's this one http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=194410 it didn't actually have any gear loops and I usually used a gear sling. I had some gear loops sewn onto it in Australia some years later - four of them made from 11mm rope. They were really good. Still used the gear sling though! Interestingly the harness didn't have a buckle of any kind and relied on a length of webbing passed through loops at the ends of the belt and tied in a tape knot. I wonder if a manufacturer could actually sell something like that nowadays?
Socks - absolutely - EBs were just too painfull without!
> Good to see you wearing Ron Hills on Hand Jive by the way. (Volume 3 page 35) - I couldn't count the gear loops but I think you can see some red socks poking out of the top of your EBs!
My book's temporarily lost in any one of hundreds of cardboard boxes in a neighbours barn awaiting new accommodation... but it's more than likely they are not actually Ron Hills?
As for the harness, if it's this one http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=194410 it didn't actually have any gear loops and I usually used a gear sling. I had some gear loops sewn onto it in Australia some years later - four of them made from 11mm rope. They were really good. Still used the gear sling though! Interestingly the harness didn't have a buckle of any kind and relied on a length of webbing passed through loops at the ends of the belt and tied in a tape knot. I wonder if a manufacturer could actually sell something like that nowadays?
Socks - absolutely - EBs were just too painfull without!
Post edited at 21:45
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