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First time Alps, your suggestions, tips, warnings and stories

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 Phil Lyon 27 Jul 2015
A couple of months back, I was bemoaning the fact that I was going to the Alps with family (non-climbing Mrs and 2 small nippers) which although is going to awesome to be there, I wouldn't be able to get out there and up there.

Well, I now have a climbing mate joining us for a couple of days and thus an opportunity I don't wish to waste.

So, any suggestions for a first good alpine experience to make the most of it. I want big, exposed and good views, but without being unwise and tackling more than I can manage, I know this isn't Scotland.

Our general experience - winter: snow plodding and basic axe/crampon work, Scottish 2. Multipitch to HVS in UK.

We will be in Flaine, an hour north of Chamonix.

My ideal would be a good view snow plod in to a long rock route with great views, one long day out.

thanks
 goatee 27 Jul 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:

Have a look at the Dent Jaune on the Dents du Midi near Martigny.
 David Rose 27 Jul 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:

The Aig. du Pouce in the Aigs. rouge.
 SteveD 27 Jul 2015
In reply to David Rose:

Are there routes other than the Voie des Dalles and Voie Francais on the Aig. du Pouce? According to CamptoCamp they are both TD(+)

OP - there are not too many snow plods this year I think, we are going in September and looking at mainly rock routes unless conditions improve considerably over the next 5-6 weeks
OP Phil Lyon 27 Jul 2015
In reply to SteveD:

I can live without the snow. I'm probably better without spiky feet.

Someone suggested cosmiques arete, what condition is that in this year, and would that fit the bill?

1
 SteveD 28 Jul 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:

Not sure what the Cosmiques will be like at the moment, not done it myself but we may look at it when we are there. This link has loads of info ( www.alpine-club.org.uk/funalps/ ) the Happy Alpine PDF has 190 odd climbs up to TD along with links the CamptoCamp descriptions.

We are currently looking at more stuff on the Aiguille Rouge as being general snow free anyway and therefore less reliant on permafrost to keep it stable. On the other hand that could that could all be bollox and we are going to die a spectacular death!
 Oujmik 28 Jul 2015
In reply to SteveD:

There were people doing the Cosmiques when I was there last week, not huge numbers though, so maybe that means the condition is poor. The ridge out of the station seemed to be in tricky condition - looked icy, but I'm a total novice so I wouldn't read too much into that.

I did my first alpine route, Traversée des Crochues (PD+ 4a) it might be a bit minor for you as it's 100% rock and only a half day by alpine standards, but for me it was enough. The walk in, although short and lift assisted is pretty knackering due to the steep, loose ground and the altitude, the ridge itself is great a Diff/VDiff first pitch followed by something akin to Grade 3 scrambling to a fantastically small summit. We did it in B3 boots which was overkill, but that was all they had for hire in town and we only had lightweight trail shoes or rock boots.
 Mark Haward 28 Jul 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:

Conditions in Cham are very dry at the moment. Plenty to be done but you have to choose carefully. A suggestion for exposed, good views but not big would be the Crochues traverse in the Aiguilles Rouges as a possible first alpine style route. Uplift followed by a shortish approach -about one hour walk / scramble that is snow free at the moment. An easy initial pitch ( about Diff ) which goes well in big boots. The traverse includes a short abseil / downclimb, lots of spectacular exposed scrambling, a lovely 2840m summit ( Aiguilles Crochues ), continuing scrambling up and down. Ideal territory to move together with rope coils on and possibly a couple of very short pitch sections. If you have not done this before take it very carefully. Worth taking a small number of wires /cams / slings. Finishes with a descent down snow fields which should be soft at the end of the day so crampons not needed but an axe would be worthwhile. Great for glissading, running, sliding etc. Good area to pause and practice some snow anchor skills before dropping down to the Lac Blanc hut and about an hour to return to a cable car station and beers.
To make the route longer and play to your strengths ( rock climbing ) you could do a rock route such as Voie Gaspard on the way to the Crochues. This is a 7/8 pitch sport rock route on the way to the Crochues, French 5b at the hardest but mostly 4c and easier. Some guidebooks say there is a 6a move - I've never found it! Fully equipped, needs about a dozen quickdraws. Finishes on the Pointe Gaspard which can be scrambled down in ten minutes to the start of the Crochues.
Alternatively, do a route after the Crochues when you know how much time is available before the last lift. Something on the Aiguillette Floria which has several fun equipped F 5b - 6a 3-6 pitch routes which can be abseiled off partway if needed and is about 10 minutes trot from a return chairlift station. Arete Rouges and Robin Wood are nice.

Have fun
OP Phil Lyon 28 Jul 2015
In reply to Mark Haward:

some great looking ideas here, thanks all.

looking at pictures and (google) maps of this area, is it doable to go up Index - Floria - Crochues as a big ridge scramble or is that a much bigger deal in real life than on this screen?
 Mark Haward 28 Jul 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:

Index goes around F4c ish. Can be done quickly by competent parties but most pitch the whole thing in half a day. Abseil descent. From there it is a long way to walk / scramble and gain access to the Floria normal route ( goes about II ). The traverse would then involve some very hard ground and route finding down and round the Gendarmes St Georges, back up to Petite Floria and then a whole lot more to get to the start of the Crochues. So not recommended.
 kenr 29 Jul 2015

Some other ways to make the Crochues Traverse longer:

* Do a higher percentage roped, lower percentage unroped. (It has been done many times with no rope, but no doubt many more times roped for the entire distance).

* Continue along the ridge beyond the Aig Crochues, going downward toward the next col (? Col des Dards?) then abseil on the E side down to the glacier (if it's still there?), before descending to Refuge Lac Blanc.

* Or continue below the E side of the ridge to the E side of the Aiguille Belvedere, and climb the Belvedere (but I've heard that the rock on its S side is bad, so check about rather going around to the E or NE or N side before finishing up to the summit. Then descending the same way back to the glacier.
. . . (because continuing the traverse down the N side of the Aig Belvedere is a rather different kind of undertaking) .

I'm a big fan of the Crochues traverse.

Ken
Post edited at 03:53
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 NottsRich 29 Jul 2015
Does anyone know if the Aig de l'm NNE Ridge would suit the OP?
 thomm 30 Jul 2015
In reply to NottsRich:

> Does anyone know if the Aig de l'm NNE Ridge would suit the OP?
Yes, great route, about HS, though as with many alpine routes the descent requires some care (i recall 2 abs and a short ladder are involved). The papillons arete is another great option (similar difficulty, more pitches but short walk-in).
 Mark Haward 30 Jul 2015
In reply to thomm:

Papillons and M only need trainers / approach shoes to access at the moment. Depending which way you descend from Papillons; several abseils via Lepidopteri (sp) has no snow or the faster two abseils and scramble walk down in the gully has a small snow patch that is soft enough for trainers in the afternoon.
Papillons is a lovely route but may be a little long for an alpine novice ( depending on their experience of course ). If pitched the whole way ( there are sections where moving together is practical for a competent team ) there are about 14 pitches including a few moves at F5b, a few 5c and a couple of 5c / 6a. Of course, most of these can be French Freed!
 Mark Bannan 31 Jul 2015
In reply to NottsRich:
> Does anyone know if the Aig de l'm NNE Ridge would suit the OP?

I was thinking that too. I think about VS, though (but not hard for the grade). Gaston Rebuffat gives it UIAA V for crux pitch with 2 other pitches of IV+. Most parties think that the offwidth (thankfully with a couple of helpful bolts) is the hardest pitch, despite not being officially graded as such. Maybe French climbers are good at offwidths and like them!
Post edited at 11:18
 Mark Haward 01 Aug 2015
In reply to Mark Bannan:

The off width can be climbed with some bridging on the outside, much more fun than a traditional thrutch in my opinion. Some of the wider Chamonix cracks actually feel much easier in big boots than rock shoes - less painful too!
 Nathan Adam 03 Aug 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:

Anyone been on the Grand Capucin this season yet? Any info on approach etc would be great, thinking of the Swiss Direct as a finisher to a two week trip starting on the 17th of August.

Cheers!
 Mark Haward 03 Aug 2015
In reply to Nath93:

Check OHM for latest info. Probably best to approach from Torino rather than Midi at the moment. Last week I was told the approach couloir was very dry, loose and horrible.
Rigid Raider 03 Aug 2015
In reply to Phil Lyon:
My brother and I were at the same level of experience as you and we thought we would go and climb Mont Blanc one fine summer. Oh how wrong and inexperienced we were! We swiftly realised that the Alps is a bigger more dangerous place than anything we have in the UK, mostly thanks to altitude, freeze-thaw and glaciers. After waiting several days for fine weather we headed over to Switzerland and tried to climb the Zinalrothorn but took the wrong route, ended up running out of time, intimidated by the exposure on the final pyramid then retreating down a gully as stones buzzed past us, released by the sun. Our second attempt was on the Aletschhorn, which we climbed as it is a pretty straightforward mountain involving no more than some rock and snow slogging. Crossing the glaciers was interesting and I realise now that we were lucky not to fall down a crevasse and die. If I took up Alpine climbing seriously I would definitely start with a guide or some lessons in basic mountaincraft before starting out on some easy apprenticeships.
Post edited at 10:42
OP Phil Lyon 30 Aug 2015
thanks for all these suggestions.

had a great day doing Gaspard Premier followed by the Crochues Traverse. Took rather longer than the 1.5 hours on summitpost so ended up skidding/abbing down ice slope at Col des Gards after coming off the ridge 1 col too early. First time abbing off an ice bollard for an anchor though.

Excellent day out in an outrageous landscape and once we realised we were going to miss the last cable car we stopped for a relaxed evening beer at the Lac Blanc hut. Thanks to richard for making our walk of shame slightly less painful with a lift down the road. We arrived down for burgers in time to watch the finishers of the MB Ultra Trail; these people are machines.

The only problem with one day out in the Alps is I now have about another 20 planned in my head after looking around.


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