UKC

worth the hype? Blessed escape from Win 8.1? Crashed and burned? can't understand the fuss?

In reply to kevin stephens:

Hi Kevin. Most reviews are positive, and its free for Win 7 and 8 users if you switch in the next year, so I will update our Desktop and Laptop from W7 at some point - but I'll wait a month or two first.
Paul

In reply to kevin stephens:

You mean there's a newer version of windows than XP?

In reply to Paul Evans:

I must keep a check on how it goes. I just loathe Windows 8/8.1.
What "improvements" are there with Windows 10? What's the cut off date for the free upgrade?
What's the mail system like?

In reply to kevin stephens: I 'upgraded' this morning and am finding it a pain. It does stuff that you don't want it to, and to stop it takes a lot of faffing, eg will only let me into my outlook mail and I have to log off and relog in to my Hotmail every time. It seems to want to change the zoom at the slightest provocation. There are several other minor but irritating changes which are not an 'improvement', just a PIA.
Will stick with it until either I get used to it, or they decide to sort it out.
Good luck if you are 'up-grading'.

In reply to johncook:


Oh dear, sounds like Windows 8.1

In reply to johncook:

I read that Microsoft offer a rollback service for up to 30 days after the upgrade/downgrade (you decide) so keep an eye on the calendar in case it gets too much and you need to hit the big red emergency get out button.

In reply to kevin stephens:

That's windows for you. Never get any problems with Mac OS. Unless you're running serious mathematical or scientific software then Mac is the way to go.

In reply to kevin stephens:

It's been fine for me. No massive changes other than the 'start menu' which is back to Windows 7 style. You can turn it into windows 8 with a tablet mode on/off.
Other than that, quick boot times and nothing too exciting to report.

I never found windows 8 the pain that the majority of people seemed too, although I work in IT so perhaps I'm more flexible to change.

FYI - all the reviews coming in basically say the same thing. Take the free upgrade, just give it a few weeks to squish the final bugs.

In reply to johncook:


Really? I've added both my mail accounts into the Mail app (the microsoft account and GMail) and both coexist happily.


This sounds very much like your touchpad driver may need sensitivity setting tweaking - something you possibly did with your old OS but settings have been reset? I had same with touchpad scroll direction reversed - just a control panel setting to change.

I think the main question is which OS are you upgrading from? If you're already using 8/8.1 then the 'feel' is very similar but without the crap start screen. If you're coming from Windows 7 it's going to be a bit of a culture shock to lose the hierachial start menu etc, moreso if you're still on XP.

The main plus points I suppose are that it's much faster than XP or 7 to start up, there are some nice multi-tasking features (multiple desktops etc) that are a move in the right direction where 8 went wrong. The whole 'tiles and apps' thing is a move that may or may not appeal but reflects the way we are consuming IT products in general, one application for all devices and that, and it's definitely less 'in your face' than Win8.

Anyhow, resistance is futile. The question is not will you upgrade, it's when...

In reply to Skip:


Sorry, but even speaking as an Apple fan (and very long-term Mac user) that just isn't true. Every single version of Mac OS has had bugs. Whether or not they affect any given user is down to a combination of chance and their exact setup / use case.

For example, the latest official release, Yosemite, is widely considered to be one of the buggiest releases of Mac OS in years. I have personally encountered a number of those bugs and had to spend some time sorting them out. Anecdotally, most releases of OS X since about 2009 have been below par in terms of reliability. 10.6 was the best 21st-century release by a long way.

Back in the 90s, several versions of Mac OS had crippling bugs that went unpatched for months or years.

Macs are great and generally offer a reliable experience, but let's not pretend they're perfect...

In reply to Only a hill:

I just bought a mac as an upgrade from a 2006 system that was running Fedora linux. At work I switched from Linux to Windows 7 earlier this year. We're planning to migrate to windows 10 at the end of the year once are ERP system works with windows 10 and whatever browser M$ has by then.

I had a play with Windows 10 and although the corporate user will be happy, any reasonably technie home user will find they're really made a mess of the system, similar to Win 8. The example I saw was VPN, attempt to connect at the Windows 10 interface brings up a Win8 - like config box, go further and you get a Win 7 style config. It's layers on layers but with different and inconsistent UI. Also in this specific case they've locked the setting so that you can't have a non-DHCP VPN connection.

Remember how crap Vista was - sat between XP and 7 which both are okay. I'm familiar with this from Linux - when Gnome 3 came out it was crap. To much had been removed, by now gnome 3 is a lot better and has the necessary config options. Same with 10 - it needs the UI finishing, but as I hate the Win 8 methodology I can't see how.

In reply to odox:

Was it just an upgrade? Will you be doing a fresh install of the OS at some point?

In reply to Philip:

I've read reviews that basically say the same thing you're saying. Not sure why anyone would upgrade from 7 at this point, they are doing everything they can to move away from the xp/7 shell.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Not yet, it's asked me twice already as it has auto downloaded and is waiting the go ahead. Will probably give it a month or so. Want to be sure my virtual systems in hyper-v don't go missing, so probably use the full image backup in 8.1 first.

In reply to Only a hill:


Just personal experience. Never had a problem myself.

In reply to kevin stephens:

My husband's just upgraded from 8 (or maybe 8.1) and is reporting that it's much more intuitive. He had a look at a few blogs and has tweaked it to do what he wants. He's a massive Apple Fanboy and curses Microsoft regularly, so positive comments from him about this are quite remarkable.

MS have long been moving us to a fast-turnaround, cloud-integrated world where you have to keep up. I'm usually the very last in line, but I surrendered this time and in-place upgraded my Win7 laptop which has a lot of tech installed that I didn't want broken. One complex bit of software needed an upgrade because it crashed the OS when I ran it, but otherwise it all seems to still work.

Don't care much about the UI. It's better than Win 8.x because it's closer to Win7 and I can find things without all that piddling about with the mouse trying to make things slide out or up etc.

In reply to kevin stephens:

i've got rt8.1 on a surface tablet.
is that eligible to upgrade as i cant find anything which allows me.

well said onlyahill, my wife has a mac, they both have their pros and cons.

In reply to Seocan:

I believe that Microsoft are not providing an update to their Surface tablets. They are a bit different from a PC, they have a different type of processor and it would take Microsoft some extra effort to adapt windows 10 to them. Given the relatively poor sales of Surfaces, they haven't been keen to put that extra effort in. Still, they will have to make many of those adaptations for Windows 10 Mobile (for phones) when it comes out, so there might be an upgrade in the offing at some point.

In reply to kevin stephens:

I just wish they'd leave the damned thing alone. I've an Apple laptop, a Win 8.1 laptop, a desktop running Vista and an iPad running God knows what. I've learned how to use them all so far as necessary to do everything I need, which amounts to some gentle word processing, photo manipulation and storage, a bit of web surfing and email.

I'm not techie and I've no wish to be. I never learned how to repair a typewriter or dismantle a camera. I simply learned how to operate them as tools to do a job. So I don't see why I should be faffing about under the bonnet tweaking stuff I neither understand nor need I just want to be able to carry on using these expensive bits of tat to do what I got them for and frankly I've better and more interesting things to do with my life than have to learn to use another bloody OS because some nerdy twerp thinks I need multiple desktops and whizz-bang graphics to play Assasin's Halo Auto Theft Mario.

Rant over (but the right to resume is reserved)

In reply to Only a hill:



Very odd. I've found Yosemite to be absolutely flawless, with no bugs at all. I've never had a computer one tenth as good as my latest Macbook Pro. It's just amazing. Takes 10 secs to boot up. Never freezes, never causes any probs. The retina screen is absolutely awesome. What to say ? I'm wondering how they can improve it

From Reddit:

"Loaded up WIN 10 last night and left it on to do its thing. Woke up to wife asking why I set it to rotate all my porn images right on the desk top view. I have no idea how to shut that feature off and that computer is staying shut down until I do. Free windows and a free trip to the doghouse. Thanks Microsoft!!!"

In reply to Only a hill:

PS. OS 10.6 was really clunky by comparison. I'm wondering where your problems are coming from.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

To be honest, Gordon, it's extremely well documented--thousands of users have experienced severe bugs with Yosemite. The most notorious bugs were wifi being disabled, crippled battery life, and rampant memory leaks leading to performance dropping off a cliff. Handoff only works intermittently at the best of times. I believe most of these bugs were patched with 10.10.3 but there's no denying that they were there, and affected a significant minority of users.

It's great that you didn't have any issues--and to be fair Yosemite is in most respects a major upgrade over Mavericks. But the underlying code is a lot more creaky than it used to be a few years back. That's why the next release, 10.11, is focusing on performance and bug fixes rather than new features--they always do this after an unusually buggy release. It's the strategy they used with System 7.1, 8.6, 9.1, 10.2, 10.6, and 10.9.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

A few examples of what I'm talking about:
http://www.tekrevue.com/yosemite-bugs-time-for-another-snow-leopard/
http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/the-worst-bugs-in-os-x-yosemite-and-how-to-fi...

same here <fingers crossed>

In reply to Only a hill:

Ah, I see. Those are about the previous version of Yosemite. I've only had my Macbook Pro since March, and it came with 10.10.4 - which really is bug free (well, not one problem in 5 months.)

In reply to kevin stephens:
I hated win 8 (came with my laptop) with a passion and re-installed win 7 on it a couple of years ago.
So it was with major intrepidation that I took the pluge and upgraded my desktop with 10.

I must admit so far so good. There are even some features that I like and an improvment !!

Still early days and one negative that I've had to upgrade my kaspersky anti virus to the 2015 edition.

cheers

Gaz

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Just an upgrade. I'm unlikely to do a fresh install for a while as there's little point doing it these days if you run a modern system and kept it relativity tidy. With smarter file systems and faster disks and PCs, file fragmentation isn't the performance suck it once was, so there are no real gains there.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

10.10.4 only came out a couple of weeks ago, so your Mac almost certainly came with 10.10.2. Anyway, I think it's fair to say that these bugs have only been reported by a minority of users – anything more widespread would have resulted in a much bigger stink being made.

The fact that I experienced severe problems indicates underlying issues, though. I run very clean systems and always do a full wipe and install with every version (have done this since the 1990s). The battery life on my MacBook Air running 10.10.2 was reduced from ten hours to less than five. 10.10.3 fixed most of the bugs although battery life has never been as good under Yosemite as it was under Mavericks. I have high hopes for El Capitan (currently running the beta on my Air, and it is much better than Yosemite).

In reply to kevin stephens:

Upgraded yesterday from Windows 7. The UI is much the same but a bit prettier. It seems much slower to boot and ever since I installed it my network connection has been flaky. I think it has lost some of the settings from Windows 7. Also some of the applications from Windows 7 seem to have disappeared and needed to be reinstalled - in some ways this was a benefit because I'd built up a lot of programs I never used.

It is really intrusive compared with Windows 7, much more linked into web services trying to sell you stuff and asking for all kinds of personal information. If you don't let it at your personal data the new features like Cortana don't work.

Overall, its not that different from Windows 7 and its going to happen anyway so may as well get it over with.

In reply to odox:

There are good times to fresh install, generally when changing from a HDD to an SSD this is a good idea, also when operating systems change significantly you are more likely to have less issues with a fresh install.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Won't allow my daughter to access bookmarks from Chrome....so she's a bit pissed off.

Me....i'm hardcore Mac...can't stand microsoft. So would she but we couldn't afford another macbook....

In reply to Skip:


Don't know if you count Matlab as serious software, bit it runs great under Mac OS.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Mine takes c. 10 secs to boot. Much faster than any PC I've ever seen.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Yeah, mine's taking several minutes. My guess is it is network related and its waiting for something to happen for a while before giving up, it doesn't seem to be able to get the network disk to mount automatically on power up.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

but that's because you're not comparing like with like. My Dell xps PC is a similar build, spec (and price) to my partner's MacBook pro. The performance and speed is very similar

In reply to kevin stephens:

OK, fine. Anyhow, my new MacBook Pro is about 4 times faster than my previous MacBook whatever-it-was-called.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Did your old one have an SSD?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Not wanting to start a bun fight here but how much did your mac cost?

My pc cost £170.00.

Cheers

Gaz

In reply to KevinD:


No. Another thing I like about the new one is that because? there's no disk it runs a lot cooler.

In reply to Gazlynn:





No telling ) But a fortune, yes, by comparison.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Just a heads up for anyone who wants to do a clean install rather than an upgrade, make sure that you do the upgrade first, so that Windows 10 can generate and register you a new product key from your old Windows 7/8.1 key. If you try and clean install before upgrading, you will be stuck without a Windows 10 product key.

http://www.howtogeek.com/224342/how-to-clean-install-windows-10/

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Actually there’s very little conclusive evidence that cloning your existing HDD onto an SSD causes any issues and certainly not enough evidence for you to kill an entire day.
I've cloned the drive on multiple systems and never experienced any issues.

You are always more likely to have less issues with a fresh install; however as it's recommended to update so Windows can register your product key, surely you might as well do this first?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Which probably accounts for the speed on its own with the processor adding a tiny bit.
Its probably the best upgrade which can currently be done and so long as you aint using something with everything glued in place its a piece of piss to do.

In reply to odox:
Windows 7 sometimes doesn't manage to get TRIM working properly without doing a fresh install when changing from a HDD to a SSD.

Unfortunately some issues get progressively worse over time (like TRIM not working) or are quite subtle so you may not notice them.

It's also a good opportunity to get rid of all the crap a 4 year old installation of windows will have left laying about.

Anyway who says it takes a whole day to reinstall windows, its a few hours to reinstall it and get it all set up with your programs again and most of this time is spent doing other things whilst things install....

Overall though I agree, simply upgrading to windows 10 will probably be fine and everything will probably work pretty similarly to windows 7.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

My PC takes about 10 secs to boot its over 4 years old. It does have an SSD though and I did tweak a few things to make it boot faster.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


My Windows 8.1 PC has a boot speed around that as well.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
I've yet to see TRIM disabled after cloning although I've read plenty about it, it seems to be more of an issue for Macs than anything.

Anyway getting slightly off point here... I agree it's a good opportunity to get rid of all the crap on your machine but you've missed my original points. "If you run a modern system and kept it relativity tidy."

So should you just upgrade? Yes if you're happy with the way the system is currently running. If not then this is a perfect time to upgrade to an SSD, more ram, fresh install... yadda yadda.

Reinstalling windows takes a couple of hours. If you include installing drivers, setting up software AND backing up the original data then it will take the average person a day at least.

In reply to odox:

I guess it comes down to how much you trust windows. Like you said things are more likely to work better from a fresh install. First windows I had at home was win 95 and back then it was all so flakey I tend not to trust windows that much.

I guess you are right, it will probably be ok upgrading without a fresh install.

In reply to Jack B:

good answer jack, thanks for that. i'm not surprised surface sales are poor. i'll not be getting another one when this one pegs it.

In reply to Orgsm:


Mine (an old laptop, I've just noticed it's got a Vista sticker on it) was about the same. Upgraded to Win 10 last night and it seems good, if a bit slower to boot now.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Anyone seen this , getting as bad as Apple and Google.


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/31/windows-10-microsoft-face...

In reply to Orgsm:

This is pretty sinister/worrying too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33737813

I think Skype (and other similars like Apple FaceTime) are a great advance in world communication. But our dear old reactionary govt. remains paranoid and unaware of how the good outweighs the evil.

In reply to Orgsm:

Are Apple bad - I was of the opinion personal data wise Apple are the best of the lot and pride them selves on it - no ?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:




Yes and does show they don't understand what end to end encryption is and why you can decrypt it in the middle, that's the whole point! We use it in the systems we design and God forbid we'd weaken those designs and return to point to point encryption.

In reply to Orgsm:

Why and how is a government unable to grasp these things? Surely their advisors tell them just what you say?

Ans: Always, always, always they're going for the cheap vote.

Or ... they really are dim, with the kind of dimness that only comes with ideological fanaticism.

In reply to kevin stephens:
My laptop purchased with windows 8 never really worked, I stopped using it mostly in favour of my I pad. Loaded Windows 10 and laptop now works reliably and Windows 10 is usable and feels much more like windows should. Gets my thumbs up at this early stage.
Wayne

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'm sure they do.

But there's the message their advisors give them, and the political message they wish to convey. Saying they have no ability to intercept the messages, gives the impression of a weak ineffectual government; so it's not palatable for them to communicate the real story.

In reply to Only a hill:

My experiences so far with El Capitan (Beta) are quite the opposite. Many bugs to be resolved which I am sure Apple will do before launching, certainly the bugs I have encountered! It has been compounded for me by the fact i am running the Beta version of iOS9 on my devices. My Mac no longer recognises them, even when hard wired!

In reply to jim robertson:

I guess it just proves how individual these experiences are! I'm confident that the final version of El Capitan will be more stable than Yosemite, based on what I've read and seen myself. I haven't tried iOS 9, though.

In reply to kevin stephens:

I'm due a new Laptop very soon. (Old one is Win 7 and falling apart, literally) I only use it for surfing the web, photo storage and a little word processing, so don't require an all singing/dancing one.

Do I wait until Win 10 is fully rolled out, or jump in now with a new Laptop and have to install Win 10 as an upgrade ??

In reply to arch:

Depending on the make and model of laptop you have, don't rule out repairs. In many models replacing things like keyboards and hinges is straightforward.

You won't be able to buy a machine with win7 on, so you'll have to make the jump to the new style anyway, and 10 will beat 8. Usually when a new windows version comes out, it takes a little while for vendors to optimise the hardware for it. There will also probably be a train of bugfixes and alterations to win10, partly because there always is with a new version but also because rumour has it that it that it was pushed out in a hurry to meet a deadline. So in your place I would try to stretch out the life of your old one as long as you can, then get a win10 machine.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Thanks all, interesting comments
My Windows update doesn't seem to work, even with firewall turned off (I'm on 8.1) so i'm not sure if or when I will be able to upgrade to 10

In reply to kevin stephens:

I have a couple of questions as well and hope the good folk on here can help.

What software can I use to back up Windows 10 when I take the plunge and install it?

I have read that Paragon and Acronis do not work with the new operating system.

Am I able to turn off automatic updates, and chose what and when I install them?

And lastly, is it true that Microsoft can delete programmes from my computer if it chooses to do so?

Cheers muchly

In reply to kevin stephens:



me too. googling finds a lot of people with this problem, and no answer from MS. do you have your system on an SSD? possible cause

In reply to MikeTS:

thanks, that's interesting, yes I have an SSD, waiting for a reply from Dell tech support

In reply to kevin stephens:
could you tell me what they say - if it is useful of course. Cheers

In reply to MikeTS:

will do, may take a few days

In reply to MikeTS:

I've fixed it by myself
First I turned off the firewall and made sure it wasn't set to switch back on when I re-booted.
I re-booted and went to settings/windows update/choose how updates get installed.
It was set to download and install automatically - I changed this to "download updates but choose whether to install them" and applied the change. Then I went to "view details" and was able to select all the uninstalled downloads, which I did and they installed.
I then rebooted no ;more warning of uninstalled updates and Win 10 started to download and install.

Hope this helps

In reply to arch:

Why not buy a second-hand computer with Win7 Professional pre installed? And then decide if you want to take a chance on Win10.
i.e:
http://microdream.co.uk/laptops-and-netbooks.html
Personally, I am of the opinion that you never update to Microsoft’s latest and greatest, until at least after SP1.
I use some very expensive design software which depends upon the drivers to the dongles working properly so I think I will ignore the so called ‘free offer’ for now.
It has crossed my mind to buy a new a new hard drive, do a basic install, and get the so called free upgrade. But from past experience, until SP1 is released it’s not worth the hassle.

In reply to kevin stephens:

My upgrade has just popped up.

Due to various electronics projects I've got a few bits of unusual software on my machine (win 8.1), should I be concerned about compatibility with v10?

In reply to kevin stephens:

I am using Media Creation tool to avoid waiting. Did not get my update message from MS yet. This works differently, so I'll just wait, Will remember your trick if I need it. Cheers

There is a cool photo in the default options for desktop background.

Reminds me of a shot on UKC from a few years ago, All Alone on the Nose I think it was called, used as a cover for either Climber or Summit one month.

In reply to The Lemming:



Home edition no.

Pro edition can defer for a few months

Long Term Service Branch can defer indefinitely.

In reply to kevin stephens:
well all a bit boring really, installation was simple, all my programmes work fine and the Win 10 interface seems really good, especially compared to Win 8.1
I'm glad I didn't choose the default install but ticked the box for decide on my own setup - that way I avoided all my life being forwarded to Microsoft to enable them to "enhance my experience" - ie send e targeted junk mail plus I don't know what

In reply to kevin stephens:


Lot's more pain upgrading from Windows 7. I've done three PCs and all have intermittent networking issues since the upgrade. Some older software isn't working, some software has disappeared off the Start menu although it is still on the disk. Blue screen of death errors on Restart that seem to be coming from an NVidia graphic card driver.

I think everything from the 2010/2011 vintage of applications and device drivers has potentially got problems when you switch to Windows 10. Also some of the advertised features like Cortana are not ready for prime time.

Probably switching a newer computer from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 is far smoother.

In reply to kevin stephens:


Even though you chose those settings during setup, its worth having a look through settings > privacy.

I noticed that even though I chose 'don't send any usage data' or whatever it was called during setup, that it was still set to 'Enhanced' in settings > privacy > Feedback & Diagnostics > Send your data to Microsoft.

It isn't even possible to set it to 'don't send anything'.

Also, if you work through all the options in settings > privacy you will notice that there is loads of stuff set to allow apps access by default, such as cameras, microphones, non-tethered devices on open wifi networks etc.


Also take note of these potential future EU anti-trust court cases, especially if you are on metered connection -

Automatic sharing of wifi login details with Facebook, Skype and other contacts - see settings > Network & Internet > WiFi > Manage Wi-Fi Settings > Connect to networks shared by my contacts

Bit torrent peer to peer updates via WAN - Settings > Updates & Security > Advanced Options > Choose How Updates Are Delivered - set it to 'PCs on my local network'

In reply to kevin stephens:

You can block send diagnostics through your firewall settings

In reply to Orgsm:

How? It isn't in the list of outbound rules.

You can block Windows Feedback, but that's a different thing.

In reply to Ken Lewis:



Sorry I meant services. It's a windows service. You can just disable it, so it never runs.