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I am a Bristol based climber looking for a training routine that encompasses training for endurance, strength and technique in climbing and allows time for cardio too away from the wall. I used to run a lot and there are thick books full of training schedules - have you encountered books or articles that lay out explicitly what balance of drills/activities climbers looking to improve their grade should be doing week in, week out? I find too often I turn up at the climbing wall and just climb without thinking about progression. Perhaps some folk may recommend specific exercises as being more important than any other climbing drills rather than following complex routines. Keen to hear your thoughts.
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
'the self coached climber' and '9 out of 10 climbers' are both useful books for training advice.
'the self coached climber' and '9 out of 10 climbers' are both useful books for training advice.
1
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
This is an excellent training resource. http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=317
and this http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4555
I highly recommend Dave's book as well 9 out of 10 climbers. It really depends on the level of climbing you are striving to achieve. Generally as a rule of thumb, the beginning of every indoor training session I focus on footwork in a structured warm up, forcing myself to looking at the feet while placing them, or focusing on breathing, etc.
I generally divide my days into strength or endurance days. If it's strength days I would try boulder problems I know I can't do once warm us finished (40-ish minutes more less..) or routes which are more or less 2 grades above my maximum.
If it's endurance or power endurance I am working on, I usually have a redpoint project to train for that requires it. Endurance is all about causing microdamage to your forearms muscles and then recovering in a rest day afterwards to increase your capillary density which makes your endurance go up. To achieve this you just need to get super pumped. I train that by top roping either my project or a problem of similar grade 2 to 3 times. If I fall off, I immediately try to get back on the wall. The goal is not to climb to the top without falling but really just to develop maximum pump. Additionally, you can view this exercise as technique training as well and really focus on maintaining your technique and precision while the pump develops (this is a real weakness of mine that needs constant work).
Also if you do any such hard training it's vital that you take the day afterwards (or two if your body dictates) off. You only get strong not while training but while resting.
If I am doing redpoint attempts I generally try to view them as training for giving maximum effort, fall practice or simply maintaining good footwork when under extreme pressure/pump. It takes the pressure of success off a bit, it's fun and every once and a while you tick something that's hard for you!
This is an excellent training resource. http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=317
and this http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4555
I highly recommend Dave's book as well 9 out of 10 climbers. It really depends on the level of climbing you are striving to achieve. Generally as a rule of thumb, the beginning of every indoor training session I focus on footwork in a structured warm up, forcing myself to looking at the feet while placing them, or focusing on breathing, etc.
I generally divide my days into strength or endurance days. If it's strength days I would try boulder problems I know I can't do once warm us finished (40-ish minutes more less..) or routes which are more or less 2 grades above my maximum.
If it's endurance or power endurance I am working on, I usually have a redpoint project to train for that requires it. Endurance is all about causing microdamage to your forearms muscles and then recovering in a rest day afterwards to increase your capillary density which makes your endurance go up. To achieve this you just need to get super pumped. I train that by top roping either my project or a problem of similar grade 2 to 3 times. If I fall off, I immediately try to get back on the wall. The goal is not to climb to the top without falling but really just to develop maximum pump. Additionally, you can view this exercise as technique training as well and really focus on maintaining your technique and precision while the pump develops (this is a real weakness of mine that needs constant work).
Also if you do any such hard training it's vital that you take the day afterwards (or two if your body dictates) off. You only get strong not while training but while resting.
If I am doing redpoint attempts I generally try to view them as training for giving maximum effort, fall practice or simply maintaining good footwork when under extreme pressure/pump. It takes the pressure of success off a bit, it's fun and every once and a while you tick something that's hard for you!
4
1
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
You might benefit from a session or two with a coach. I used to go down the wall aimlessly, then I had a session with a guy who knew what he was talking about and he gave me tonnes of useful advice about training.
The first question is, "what are you trying to achieve?". I wanted to be ticking E3s on Gogarth Main Cliff that summer, so his advice was tailored to that (for me, doing 4x4s on routes twice a week has been the most useful drill). If I'd wanted to redpoint 8a, or boulder 7b+ of course it would have been completely different.
If you don't want to use a coach, you could tailor the info from other sources to suit your needs, once you know what they are. Having a good look through previous threads on here will be a really good help.
You might benefit from a session or two with a coach. I used to go down the wall aimlessly, then I had a session with a guy who knew what he was talking about and he gave me tonnes of useful advice about training.
The first question is, "what are you trying to achieve?". I wanted to be ticking E3s on Gogarth Main Cliff that summer, so his advice was tailored to that (for me, doing 4x4s on routes twice a week has been the most useful drill). If I'd wanted to redpoint 8a, or boulder 7b+ of course it would have been completely different.
If you don't want to use a coach, you could tailor the info from other sources to suit your needs, once you know what they are. Having a good look through previous threads on here will be a really good help.
1
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
Many factors to be taken into consideration and your profile doesn't give much information about you. How long have you been climbing? What grade to you climb now? What type of climbing are you most interested in, boulder, sport or trad? Goals?
So in very general terms:
There are good bouldering walls in Bristol I believe. These are probably the best way to improve strength and learn technique. I think going at least 3 times a week should be enough, though you need to get enough volume and intensity to keep improving. That means doing enough problems of sufficient difficulty each week. You also want to figure out your what type of climbing you're worst at and concentrate on that: might be slopers, fingerey stuff, roofs, slabs or whatever.
For books I agree with '9 out of 10 climbers' and also add the old but excellent 'Performance Rock Climbing'.
Cardio is not necessary for climbing. If you want to do that and fit it in though will depend on how much you're doing, how fit you are etc. Too much will detract from climbing training a bit - unless its helping you lose weight. If you're not doing too much it can even be used a good warm up before climbing - eg. 30 mins jog or bike ride to the wall.
There are also loads of online resources worth checking. TrainingBeta.com has good podcasts you can listen to while doing other things. Others include
trainingforclimbing.com
allirainey.com
Plus you can also mine the forums on here for info.
Many factors to be taken into consideration and your profile doesn't give much information about you. How long have you been climbing? What grade to you climb now? What type of climbing are you most interested in, boulder, sport or trad? Goals?
So in very general terms:
There are good bouldering walls in Bristol I believe. These are probably the best way to improve strength and learn technique. I think going at least 3 times a week should be enough, though you need to get enough volume and intensity to keep improving. That means doing enough problems of sufficient difficulty each week. You also want to figure out your what type of climbing you're worst at and concentrate on that: might be slopers, fingerey stuff, roofs, slabs or whatever.
For books I agree with '9 out of 10 climbers' and also add the old but excellent 'Performance Rock Climbing'.
Cardio is not necessary for climbing. If you want to do that and fit it in though will depend on how much you're doing, how fit you are etc. Too much will detract from climbing training a bit - unless its helping you lose weight. If you're not doing too much it can even be used a good warm up before climbing - eg. 30 mins jog or bike ride to the wall.
There are also loads of online resources worth checking. TrainingBeta.com has good podcasts you can listen to while doing other things. Others include
trainingforclimbing.com
allirainey.com
Plus you can also mine the forums on here for info.
1
In reply to stp:
As with everything else, it depends. If by 'climbing' he means long days in the Alps or the Greater Ranges, or Scottish Winter with its 3 hour walk ins, I'd say it's very necessary.
> Cardio is not necessary for climbing...
As with everything else, it depends. If by 'climbing' he means long days in the Alps or the Greater Ranges, or Scottish Winter with its 3 hour walk ins, I'd say it's very necessary.
Post edited at 19:48
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
Highly recommend taking up yoga. 15mins twice a day is very good for you. Yoga Studio iOS app good.
Highly recommend taking up yoga. 15mins twice a day is very good for you. Yoga Studio iOS app good.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
Yeah agreed, and getting strong at bouldering wouldn't be much use at all in that case.
Yeah agreed, and getting strong at bouldering wouldn't be much use at all in that case.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Quite a few climbers recommend yoga. What do you see as the main benefits, particularly in regard to climbing?
Quite a few climbers recommend yoga. What do you see as the main benefits, particularly in regard to climbing?
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
I think training for climbing is cheating and not in the spirit of the sport as it was originally conceived But that's mainly because I'm too lazy and not inclined to do it and will therefore remain forever a "punter".
As an aside it would be interesting to consider what the hardest grade climb is that has been achieved with no structured training at all. Personally my best is E4 by just getting the mileage in.
Al
I think training for climbing is cheating and not in the spirit of the sport as it was originally conceived But that's mainly because I'm too lazy and not inclined to do it and will therefore remain forever a "punter".
As an aside it would be interesting to consider what the hardest grade climb is that has been achieved with no structured training at all. Personally my best is E4 by just getting the mileage in.
Al
Post edited at 13:34
In reply to GridNorth:
Apparentely Paul Preuss trained to do a one-arm pull up back in 1906.
:p
How can one tell what is "unstructured training"? One could boulder in the winter, just 'cos it's cold, go on a sport climbing trip to France in the Spring, cos it's nice, and then do a bunch of hard routes in the June, and not call it structured training. Alternatively one could have a boulder phase in the winter, work on one's power-endurance by some sports climbing and then pull it all together on some hard trad ascents - and the only thing that's changed is what you call it...
> I think training for climbing is cheating and not in the spirit of the sport as it was originally conceived
Apparentely Paul Preuss trained to do a one-arm pull up back in 1906.
:p
> As an aside it would be interesting to consider what the hardest grade climb is that has been achieved with no structured training at all. Personally my best is E4 by just getting the mileage in.
How can one tell what is "unstructured training"? One could boulder in the winter, just 'cos it's cold, go on a sport climbing trip to France in the Spring, cos it's nice, and then do a bunch of hard routes in the June, and not call it structured training. Alternatively one could have a boulder phase in the winter, work on one's power-endurance by some sports climbing and then pull it all together on some hard trad ascents - and the only thing that's changed is what you call it...
2
In reply to seankenny:
To me structured training, in it's simplest form, is doing pull ups, push ups, finger strengthening exercises and activities other than actual climbing with a rope. Bouldering is admittedly a grey area in this regard so I suppose it depends how you approach it and your motives for doing it but I think I would consider it training. Indoor climbing is also training IMO but again it's how you do it that counts. For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured.
Al
To me structured training, in it's simplest form, is doing pull ups, push ups, finger strengthening exercises and activities other than actual climbing with a rope. Bouldering is admittedly a grey area in this regard so I suppose it depends how you approach it and your motives for doing it but I think I would consider it training. Indoor climbing is also training IMO but again it's how you do it that counts. For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured.
Al
Post edited at 14:47
In reply to GridNorth:
It maybe unstructured and adhoc, but it's still training. To be a true 'gentleman climber' you would have to turn up to a route having never climbed before, climb it onsight, and then retire to take up golf or motor racing.
> For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured.
It maybe unstructured and adhoc, but it's still training. To be a true 'gentleman climber' you would have to turn up to a route having never climbed before, climb it onsight, and then retire to take up golf or motor racing.
1
In reply to seankenny:
Yes, I've been considering this recently. It's almost like the seasons impose some minimal level of periodisation and variety on us, as long as we're open to adapting what we do to the conditions.
> One could boulder in the winter... go on a sport climbing trip to France in the Spring... then do a bunch of hard routes in the June
Yes, I've been considering this recently. It's almost like the seasons impose some minimal level of periodisation and variety on us, as long as we're open to adapting what we do to the conditions.
In reply to GridNorth:
Would plumbing, building and other heavy duty industrial work count as training under that definition?
Bouldering is admittedly a grey area in this regard so I suppose it depends how you approach it and your motives for doing it but I think I would consider it training. Indoor climbing is also training IMO but again it's how you do it that counts. For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured.
But surely climbers have always said things like "I'm okay at walls but a bit crap at crack climbing and I'd like to do the Nose so I'm off to Millstone to learn to jam." Which effectively makes it structured training, even if the structure is extremely lose. Isn't starting off with the easy routes at Gogarth to get used to the style before heading out to the Main Cliff a kind of structured training too?
> To me structured training, in it's simplest form, is doing pull ups, push ups, finger strengthening exercises and activities other than actual climbing with a rope.
Would plumbing, building and other heavy duty industrial work count as training under that definition?
Bouldering is admittedly a grey area in this regard so I suppose it depends how you approach it and your motives for doing it but I think I would consider it training. Indoor climbing is also training IMO but again it's how you do it that counts. For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured.
But surely climbers have always said things like "I'm okay at walls but a bit crap at crack climbing and I'd like to do the Nose so I'm off to Millstone to learn to jam." Which effectively makes it structured training, even if the structure is extremely lose. Isn't starting off with the easy routes at Gogarth to get used to the style before heading out to the Main Cliff a kind of structured training too?
In reply to seankenny:
Not unless it was undertaken specifically in order to improve ones climbing.
With regard to your second point no because it's mileage. I did say "other than climbing with a rope" or words to that affect.
Al
> Would plumbing, building and other heavy duty industrial work count as training under that definition?
Not unless it was undertaken specifically in order to improve ones climbing.
With regard to your second point no because it's mileage. I did say "other than climbing with a rope" or words to that affect.
Al
Post edited at 15:54
In reply to GridNorth:
" it's how you do it that counts. For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured"
So that would imply that trying to improve a specific weakness is a kind a structured training, rather than just "mileage" - which in itself could be a form of training, as in "I need to get fit cos I'm going to the Alps, better put in some long days" - and making the first day 15 VSs on Stanage and the second 20VSs on Stanage and the third 25 VSs - which is exactly what structured training would look like. Don't tell me climbers only did things like this from about 1975 or something...
> With regard to your second point no because it's mileage. I did say "other than climbing with a rope" or words to that affect.
" it's how you do it that counts. For example I just climb routes, as I would outdoors, without any consideration to improving specific weaknesses or techniques i.e. unstructured"
So that would imply that trying to improve a specific weakness is a kind a structured training, rather than just "mileage" - which in itself could be a form of training, as in "I need to get fit cos I'm going to the Alps, better put in some long days" - and making the first day 15 VSs on Stanage and the second 20VSs on Stanage and the third 25 VSs - which is exactly what structured training would look like. Don't tell me climbers only did things like this from about 1975 or something...
In reply to GridNorth:
That would be a fairly perverse form of training by modern standards, in that one of the key principles behind a structured training program is specificity. Training for climbing by deliberately not climbing would be an approach unlikely to reap much benefit.
> To me structured training, in it's simplest form, is doing pull ups, push ups, finger strengthening exercises and activities other than actual climbing with a rope.
That would be a fairly perverse form of training by modern standards, in that one of the key principles behind a structured training program is specificity. Training for climbing by deliberately not climbing would be an approach unlikely to reap much benefit.
In reply to AndrewJYoung:
OK I've probably not explained myself very well. I didn't want a discussion about the definition of training so I'll just drop out of the discussion.
Al
OK I've probably not explained myself very well. I didn't want a discussion about the definition of training so I'll just drop out of the discussion.
Al
In reply to GridNorth:
Clearly you need to do some tr....
...
I'll get my coat.
> OK I've probably not explained myself very well.
Clearly you need to do some tr....
...
I'll get my coat.
In reply to seankenny:
That would be lessons (English lessons) but lets not get into semantics again.
Al
That would be lessons (English lessons) but lets not get into semantics again.
Al
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