UKC

Always sad to know life has been taken,

Anyone care to speculate on why a 400 tone ish crawler crane would flick backward and end tracks up??

was it working / lifting , parked up , do Crawlers have a free slew.

Lots of the others still standing

posted this in the pub on the back of another thread, but no takers.

its even go its own Wikipedia now page !

These things don't blow over in 25 mph wind

Anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_crane_collapse

''There were strong sand storms in the region over the preceding week. The authority said an hour before the disaster that Mecca was experiencing medium to heavy rains. There were also reports of winds of more than 40 kilometres per hour (25 mph). However the exact cause of the crane collapse was not confirmed.[19]''

In reply to google:



MOSSAD?

In reply to google: God showing his displeasure at something or other.

It could be to do with the fact that the Saudis employ slaves to do their construction work which probably also means putting cranes up.

In reply to google:

Have a read of the daily mail comments on this.
Its shocking just how backward the readers of that paper are.

In reply to mark s:

Its go a map of Saudi to help then too.

In reply to google:

My guess would be a shock load which could have been caused by any number of things:
Unexpected Release of heavy load
Excessive load (failed compound lift)
Base not level would be an obvious cause as its a crawler but the technology in one of that size should stop it getting into that kind of situation.

Andy

In reply to Andrew Wilson:

that what I would think but it would not be lifting in a thunder storm ? Lighting was reported seen,
Saudi news reports 25mph wind 24/5 M sec

just something not stacking up and saying a piece of kit like that blowing over is well unbelievable, on first hearing it .

In reply to google:
A representative from the company who owns and runs the crane, the Bin Laden family owned Saudi Binladen group, said that it was , "an act of God"!

It happened on the anniversary of 911 and it was in at the mosque which is at the very heart of the Muslim religion.

Bin Laden owned crane(not a plane) killing Muslims in Mecca on the anniversary of 911 and an Act of God!. Is it just me or is this too bloody ironic to be true?

In reply to mgco3:

You are aware that around 30 Muslims people were killed in the twin towers? Including a pregnant woman and a police officer.

In reply to marsbar:


Yes I am aware. I wasn't being judgmental about the "Accident" I was commenting on the apparent irony of the series of "coincidences" surrounding it being somewhat unbelievable.

Perhaps it wasn't an accident after all.

In reply to mgco3:


Found the religious guy.

In reply to mgco3:

I have had not realised the date till late on Sunday evening..

In reply to mgco3:




I think, personally, that it is just you. And 'ironic' is not the right word I'd have thought?

But I do sometimes wonder what the point of these threads is. I, too, read the news. I am aware that there are many disasters going on in the world. Some of them - most in far off countries - are 'major'. There are also many happening in this country that tend to be a bit more 'minor'.

On a 'climbing' site like this I'm not too interested in reading technical reasons why a crane might tip over and there is nothing that UKC can contribute to understanding the event or supporting the victims.

Unless the 'point' of threads like this is a sort of virtual rubbernecking? 'Ooooh look lots of people have died. What can we see'? And that isn't ironic either.

In reply to Andy Say:


You know what? The vast majority of people on this 'climbing site' aren't full-time climbers, or obsessive nutcases who only eat, sleep, think and talk climbing. Members are drawn from all walks of life, and have a huge variety of interests and expertise other than climbing. Maybe your former occupation means that you think about climbing more than the average member.

That's why UKC has been, and remains, an interesting place to visit, and a useful place to get advice and opinion on just about any topic you care to think of. If it were confined to discussions on 'climbing topics', it would be one of the most tedious, dull and lifeless place I can think of. To quote your own profile: "why talk about it?"

In reply to mgco3:


Would that be the same Bin Laden family that had a nasty plane accident recently in Hampshire? If so they seem to be having a bit of bad luck recently - not that 2 incidents make a trend of course.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Totally agree. In fact I've had my wrist slapped before for assuming that UKC is 'about' climbing.

But I'm not sure where a query like 'Anyone care to speculate on why a 400 tone ish crawler crane would flick backward and end tracks up??' fits. You might as well post that on www.carpfishing.co.ie in the hope of a rational answer.

If, indeed, there is one.

p.s. Flattered you've read my profile

In reply to Andy Say:


You might, and maybe someone has. But the person posting the question obviously posts on UKC. As do you. And, since UKC is, like almost all other forums, a giant 'group of mates down the pub', they've asked the question here. It's no more odd than any other question posted here.

I read your profile to see if you were an obvious climbing-obsessed nut case...

In reply to Removed User:

I was inferring "human" actions not godly ones!

In reply to google:

Many coincidences!

In reply to Andy Say:


You are free to offer an alternate word then.


The point of "these" threads is to illicit responses and opinions just as this post has from yourself. Job done..


Then I would suggest you don't waste your precious (or should that be spelt pretentious) time in replying.


Social comment is the stuff of democracy old son. Like it or not people will have their opinions and thoughts and have the right to express them freely. At least they do in this country. The fact that Christians are not allowed in Mecca and neither is free speech only adds to the irony. Yes Irony....

In reply to csambrook:

I had forgotten all about that.. That was a very strange event too..

In reply to Andy Say:


Are you mentally retarded? It's posted in the Off Belay forum, dedicated solely to "non climbing related discussion"

In reply to Andy Say:





Andy, Thank you for your interruptions to the thread, I respond thus, for your consideration.
a, UKC. Posting guide lines, off Belay. '' For none climbing topics''
b, Threads you have started.
c, Viewing , and repeated viewing are not mandatory.

I have started another thread that may be of interest to you,
[Is this the most Hypocritical & Pompous ever, post ever on UKC.]
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=624679







Neurological impairment may be mild,

In reply to captain paranoia:



You can at least, read my profile And I have only commented on the thread and the nature of such threads; I don't think I've made any personal attacks on the OP or anyone else.

In reply to mgco3:


'Schadenfreude'. That's a cracking word.

'The fact that Christians are not allowed in Mecca and neither is free speech only adds to the irony. Yes Irony....'

You just don't get what irony is do you?

In reply to Andy Say:


Its what I get when my shirts get all creasey.

In reply to Andy Say:



A state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result:

Irony fits the situation nicely..

In reply to mgco3:

So 'At least 107 people died and more than 230 people were injured when a crane collapsed in the Muslim holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia. The huge red crane crashed into a part of the Grand Mosque - the largest in the world - that was filled with worshippers at the time' = 'A state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result'.

Now. Rest assured. I do fully realise that you didn't actually meant that the death of 107 people and the injury of a further 230 was 'wryly amusing'. Well, at least I hope so.

But do you not see that it is 'tragedy' rather than 'irony' here.

I'll admit that 'classic tragedy' often included elements of 'classic irony' as the audience could see that protagonists were mistaken in their beliefs and could not see their downfall. But I really would hesitate to apply that to the believers killed here.

In reply to Andy Say:

Give it a rest, are you sure you're not a politician?

In reply to radddogg:
I can assure you I am not a politician.

We have a 'like' and a 'dislike' button. Do you think we should have a 'give it a rest' button for threads that are becoming simply tedious?

In reply to Name Changed 34:

Details of the incident vary greatly and chances of the whole truth coming out are slim when people's liberty and livelihoods are at stake.

The crane was not in use at the time and, given the reported conditions, should almost certainly have had the boom lowered to the ground.

Some channels have reported gusts of wind as high as 60+mph (the wind speed at the tip of the jib may have been significantly higher than any reported speeds which are likely to be based on ground level). If the crane was left rigged with the boom and jib in a near vertical position facing in to the wind, it isn't at all surprising that it went over backwards. The boom plus the jib of an LR11350 in that configuration would be anything from 80-200m long, that is a hefty wind sail area. Large cranes are very sensitive to weather conditions.

If the initial reports are accurate, this was negligent (if unsurprising) practice.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

Surely the Americans had something to do with it. There always upto no good the dirty rotten scoundrels I think the C.I.A loosened all the bolts.

In reply to Andy Say:

If you cant understand the irony of the coincidences surrounding this unfortunate event then I doubt that any amount of trying to explain will enlighten you.

Tragedy it is, ironic are the circumstances surrounding it.

In reply to mgco3:

I understand some Muslims consider it to have been a blessing in disguise.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/mecca-crane-collapse-de...

In reply to Shani: As has been pointed out, not just Muslims but Christians as well should logically be chuffed to bits as they approach death, and their nearest and dearest should be ecstatic for them when it happens.

Funnily enough that doesn't seem to be the case.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Yeah. I'm wary of endorsing this 'blessed' position as it could be construed as Islamophobic. Similarly I endorse we accommodate refugees rather than filtering out theists and encouraging them to pray for assistance instead.

In reply to Kassius:

Mini nuke again? (The kind that don't leave any radiation , but can bring down a building or now crane)

In reply to Name Changed 34:


Depends what it was lifting (if anything) at the time surely? I may not be one simple thing, it could be a combination of factors like the wind load induced structural failure that caused one to collapse into a US football stadium a few years back. Perhaps the ground gave way. Perhaps there was some operator error. Perhaps the met reports are inaccurate. The facts will probably come to light eventually or maybe not.

jk

In reply to Shani:

Now that is ironic...

In reply to Indy:


Yes very possible indeed, either them or the CIA.

In reply to SDM:






I did not realise Crawler cranes are so wind susceptible, they appear stable from ground level.

some of the video has what looks like wheelie-bins blowing around, so at 80M plus gusting must have been much more.
Another video shows the main gib at 20ish? degrees and then backfliping .