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Ticks

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 jonny taylor 05 Oct 2015
Just wondering how people handle ticks and the risk of Lyme disease? It's pretty much an unavoidable hazard of scotland in the summer. I keep a close eye out but a few ones (usually larvae and nymphs) slip through the net - end up with a handful of bites each summer. Some I spot soon afterwards, this morning's has probably at least been on overnight. I keep an eye out for red rings, but their absence does not preclude infection. Mother in law contracted disease on a visit earlier this summer, without being aware of any bite.

Pretty sure I know the answer, but how to people approach bites and Lyme disease? Would be pretty silly to go to the GP after every bite! Do people just stay vigilant and presume that symptoms will be obvious if infection occurs? Not sure if a low-level infection would be obvious or not - many of the symptoms sound like the sort of thing that could be written off as just part of life (fatigue, aches, headache...)!

Out of interest, does infection and treatment offer future immunity? (I have not to my knowledge ever been infected). I presume that if an inoculation existed then I would have heard about it...
 d_b 05 Oct 2015
In reply to jonny taylor:

My approach is to remove ticks ASAP and watch the area around the bite in a state of paranoia for weeks. I have never had Lyme disease but my understanding is that you want to get treatment ASAP if you suspect it.

I have never heard anything about catching it conferring any kind of immunity. Best to assume that it doesn't.
 humptydumpty 05 Oct 2015
In reply to jonny taylor:

Wikipedia claims:

> Usually, the tick must be attached for 36 to 48 hours before the bacteria can spread.

Maybe that's some comfort?
 Skyfall 05 Oct 2015
In reply to jonny taylor:

I felt run down after a tick bite, no red ring, but went to the Dr who point blank refused to give me anti-biotics. That was almost two years ago and I assume i am ok as I don't have persistent illness but I get so angry at their passive approach to it.

Did you see that John Caudwell (billionaire) is attributing most of the world's illnesses (including alzheimers I believe) to Lyme? Apparently all his family have it and German labs pick it up when our own don't. All very strange.
 SouthernSteve 05 Oct 2015
In reply to humptydumpty:

You are correct: During the first 12 to 24 hours after the tick bite, borrelia organisms residing in the tick’s
midgut are not transmitted to the vertebrate host. They must undergo some surface protein changes to allow transmission. This is aided by the feeding habits of the ticks as within the feeding cycle there is not much regurgitation early on. However, earlier infection is reported. So quick action to remove the tick is useful. It is not going to get easier to get a course of antibiotics out of a GP in the current climate of antibiotic resistance without convincing signs.
OP jonny taylor 05 Oct 2015
In reply to jonny taylor:

Thanks folks, that's interesting (and mildly reassuring) about the time delay to infection.

About 5 years ago I was taken seriously by GP about it; don't think I was given antibiotics but was given a blood test (which came back negative). Don't know what would happen these days though.
 gethin_allen 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Skyfall:

"and German labs pick it up when our own don't. All very strange."

My ex had to get immunised against Tick borne encephalitis when she was living in Stuttgart so they obviously take tickets borne diseases seriously.

 Heike 05 Oct 2015
In reply to gethin_allen:
I think it is because there is a high occurrence of tick borne encephalitis in some areas which is - let's face it - pretty deadly or incapacitating'. I always had vaccinations against tick borne encephalitis when I lived in Germany, they are pretty clued up about it there. Lyme's disease in the UK (and Germany) is not really seen as a major priority, hence the lack of response. So us, as outdoors people, have to keep our own eyes open to be vigilant! It can be a very incapacitating disease, too!!
Post edited at 23:37
Jim C 06 Oct 2015
In reply to Heike:

I have just removed two ticks I got in Torridon at the weekend.
They were not noticed ( or became itchy ) until tonight, (Monday night . )
One was flattened and dead , probably happened in the shower as it was on my shin, but another had nestled in at my ankle , just above my heel and was very much alive.

(My wife point blank refused me the the use of her tweezers , and nipped out and bought me my very own pair ( for my next trip.)

I looked up the NHS website, and it said get pointed tweezers grip near the skin pull straight up , no twisting) I did, and it came off and was happily walking away on the paper I placed it on, when my wife squashed it before I could get my lens on it for a closer look.
I got an antiseptic wipe and rubbed the bite areas . I will keep my eye on the bite marks over the next few days.
 SouthernSteve 06 Oct 2015
In reply to Jim C : You can buy plastic tick hooks from the pet shop or vets, the green plastic ones work well.
 BusyLizzie 06 Oct 2015
In reply to jonny taylor:

I was very peeved when I picked up a couple of ticks in Cornwall in the summer, as did the family, I think from a walk in a very bracken-y area; I had assumed these were things that happened to other people I think we caught them all by the following morning. Yukkkkk...
 Trangia 06 Oct 2015
In reply to BusyLizzie:

I found a huge bloated tick behind my knee during the night after walking in shorts in Swaziland. I tried to remove it with tweezers but the head came off and remained embedded in me. I was in a remote area and had no antiseptic other than Germolene and a half a bottle of whisky. So I liberally splashed whisky on the site and then using a sewing needle from my travel housewife I dug out the head and surrounding flesh, regularly washing the blood away with whisky. Then I put on a good smearing of Germolene and covered it with a plaster.

Finally I gave myself a good dram of whisky so as to attack it from the inside.

I had a sore patch on my skin for a few days, but that's all.

Thereafter I carefully checked my skin and clothes several times a day and removed numerous ticks before they got a hold. A favourite spot was in my socks just down from the ankle in my boots. Also, if wearing shorts, check your crotch and pubic hair regularly.+

So if you go to Swaziland beware of ticks and carry whisky!
In reply to jonny taylor:
I had 13 ticks on me after a trip to Uags bothy on Applecross last week, not discovered for a couple of days (my wife spotted them back home - I was oblivious). That's more than I've had over the last couple of years put together. Must've just got unlucky this time. It's very bracken-choked all round the bothy and I hadn't put any insect repellent round my ankles.

I am not at all worried but I'll certainly bear it in mind if I start feeling poorly in the next wee while (how long is the incubation period - anyone know?). I'd be straight to the doctors if there was any suspicion.

However you've got to be prepared to argue your case since most GPs seem ignorant about lymes. I did once have what looked exactly like a bullseye rash and my doc was sceptical to the point of refusing even a blood test. A day or two later I convinced myself I was feeling grotty and so I self medicated with a course of the correct antibiotics obtained through an American contact. I'll be a lot more assertive at the surgery next time and insist it's dealt with officially.

You're right - going to the docs after every bite would be daft. But you're also right to be worried that low-level symptoms could get missed until it became effectively untreatable. I don't think there's an easy answer to that.
 IM 06 Oct 2015
In reply to jonny taylor;

I am getting into the habit of spraying this stuff on boots, gaiters, trousers - Lifesystems Ex4 Anti Mosquito Clothing Treatment. I am sure there is lots of other stuff that is as good. The key is that it contains Permethrin, which I understand is very effective at deterring ticks. I am also going to keep a pair of tick removers in the car, so I can remove the little sods ASAP. May even carry a pair in my rucksack. Wearing shorts is out for me now and I will avoid walking through bracken/long grass at all costs. Listened to a radio 2 discussion of the increase of ticks/Lyme disease; and the stories from callers of many months of horrendous, debilitating illness scared the shit out of me!



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