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Just a few questions from a teen climber who's been climbing indoors only (sadly) for a couple of years now:
1. Fear of indoor lead!
Yes it is completely irrational but what can I do to get over it? Main issue seems to be in trusting belayer - when I have someone I really trust to catch me (eg an instructor) I will just get on with it, but have trouble trusting people younger/smaller than me who don't really seem to be concentrating. Was leading on only 5+ for about 9 months without ever falling because of this! It's really bothering me now as I can toprope around 2 full grades harder than I can lead, which is pretty annoying!
2. How would I have ended up with rope burn on the inside of my left wrist from a fall - how can I avoid this happening again?
3. When people talk about 'rope behind your leg' what do they mean?
4. Things you wish you had known when you were younger/ starting out? How not to get fed up with slow progress (why is 7a so much harder than 6c+)?!
Thanks!
Post edited at 18:40
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Not wanting to fall because you don't trust your belayer is perfectly rational. Build up confidence by taking falls on toprope, then falls where you're really going to moves, then take small delberate falls on lead. Google "Clip-drop technique" for videos in how to deal with this. Don't do it if you really don't trust the person on the end though!
Trying to grab the rope when you fell, or having your arm trapped by the rope.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rope+behind+leg&safe=off&es_sm=93...
They mean that your leg is between the rock and the rope - if you fall then when the rope comes tight it will invert you. Possible dangers: Head injuries, ropeburn.
If it's near your current limit it feels like a bigger step. Vary the style of the climbs you do. If you're really stuck think about training whatever aspect is holding you back. I.e. If you're pumping out, train endurance, if you're powering out try doing 4x4 boulder problems.
> 1. Fear of indoor lead!
Not wanting to fall because you don't trust your belayer is perfectly rational. Build up confidence by taking falls on toprope, then falls where you're really going to moves, then take small delberate falls on lead. Google "Clip-drop technique" for videos in how to deal with this. Don't do it if you really don't trust the person on the end though!
> 2. How would I have ended up with rope burn on the inside of my left wrist from a fall - how can I avoid this happening again?
Trying to grab the rope when you fell, or having your arm trapped by the rope.
> 3. When people talk about 'rope behind your leg' what do they mean?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rope+behind+leg&safe=off&es_sm=93...
They mean that your leg is between the rock and the rope - if you fall then when the rope comes tight it will invert you. Possible dangers: Head injuries, ropeburn.
> 4. Things you wish you had known when you were younger/ starting out? How not to get fed up with slow progress (why is 7a so much harder than 6c+)?!
If it's near your current limit it feels like a bigger step. Vary the style of the climbs you do. If you're really stuck think about training whatever aspect is holding you back. I.e. If you're pumping out, train endurance, if you're powering out try doing 4x4 boulder problems.
> Thanks!
18
In reply to drysori:
A helpful, useful, sensible reply to a perfectly sensible set of questions....I swear this place is going to the dogs!
A helpful, useful, sensible reply to a perfectly sensible set of questions....I swear this place is going to the dogs!
35
1
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
I know! I was very surprised to read it - all ready to be accused of being a troll!
I know! I was very surprised to read it - all ready to be accused of being a troll!
1
In reply to drysori:
Thanks! Some really helpful advice there. I have read about 'clip-drop' before but never had the nerve to try it!!
Thanks! Some really helpful advice there. I have read about 'clip-drop' before but never had the nerve to try it!!
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
In reply to number 4-
1. Work your feet! It's all about getting your weight off your arms onto the feet, using a combination of ballance (body positioning) and good foot work.
2. Don't over focus on pushing grades. It's fun and rewarding to push grades but a lot of the best climbs I've done have been easy ones. Going to the wall and having a good time is what it's all about, don't be a slave to grades if you're not enjoying it!
In reply to number 4-
1. Work your feet! It's all about getting your weight off your arms onto the feet, using a combination of ballance (body positioning) and good foot work.
2. Don't over focus on pushing grades. It's fun and rewarding to push grades but a lot of the best climbs I've done have been easy ones. Going to the wall and having a good time is what it's all about, don't be a slave to grades if you're not enjoying it!
2
5
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Good questions, constructive answers. I'll try to maintain that with:
Very wise to be choosy about your belayers. Keep it up.
Don't stereotype yourself as somebody who likes / is good at one style of climbing and avoids others. If you don't like butch thuggy overhangs, get on them. If you don't like slabs, climb more slabs. Etc.
Good questions, constructive answers. I'll try to maintain that with:
> when I have someone I really trust to catch me (eg an instructor) I will just get on with it, but have trouble trusting people younger/smaller than me who don't really seem to be concentrating.
Very wise to be choosy about your belayers. Keep it up.
> 4. Things you wish you had known when you were younger/ starting out?
Don't stereotype yourself as somebody who likes / is good at one style of climbing and avoids others. If you don't like butch thuggy overhangs, get on them. If you don't like slabs, climb more slabs. Etc.
3
In reply to ClimberGirl:
I'll save you the effort of finding this out for yourself. After you've told yourself every excuse in the book for not being able to finish a route or get past a crux 90% of the time it's technique ie: footwork, body position and breathing.
I'll save you the effort of finding this out for yourself. After you've told yourself every excuse in the book for not being able to finish a route or get past a crux 90% of the time it's technique ie: footwork, body position and breathing.
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Hi
My daughter, age 7, is a very keen climber, and is still learning to belay (shadowed, as she's typically smaller than everyone else she climbs with).
One thing that I've encouraged from day one climbing with her is to always buddy check (ie. climber and belayer check each other's threading, knots, carabiners, belay devices, and anything else the rope is [supposed to be] connected to), whether she is the climber or the belayer.
I often turn this into a game, eg. deliberately mis-tying my knot, threading the belay device incorrectly or onto a completely different rope, just to see if she 's paying attention. Usually that's met with rolleyes.
She's not at all shy to demand a buddy check from whomever she's climbing with, even if she's not climbed with them before (eg. in a random instructed kid's group). Usually a group instructor should insist this in a young group, but it's also surprising how few adults buddy check.
Don't be afraid to constructively criticise your belayer: there's some horrendous belaying techniques at indoor walls that should be stamped on. Don't be afraid to critique or even reject a climbing partner if their belay technique is not up to scratch (just make sure your own belaying is up to par .
Climbers younger that you generally welcome the opportunity to have guidance and tips from someone older (especially when it's not an adult!).
Alternatively, ask someone else you know to back them up: if they're not willing to do so then that might give you more cause to move on and find another climbing partner.
With regards to the grade difference, just switch things around: climb more lead than top-rope. The previous comments about learning to take lead falls is good. Probably good practice for a young belayer too.
Hope that helps. In any case, just keep climbing!
Hi
My daughter, age 7, is a very keen climber, and is still learning to belay (shadowed, as she's typically smaller than everyone else she climbs with).
One thing that I've encouraged from day one climbing with her is to always buddy check (ie. climber and belayer check each other's threading, knots, carabiners, belay devices, and anything else the rope is [supposed to be] connected to), whether she is the climber or the belayer.
I often turn this into a game, eg. deliberately mis-tying my knot, threading the belay device incorrectly or onto a completely different rope, just to see if she 's paying attention. Usually that's met with rolleyes.
She's not at all shy to demand a buddy check from whomever she's climbing with, even if she's not climbed with them before (eg. in a random instructed kid's group). Usually a group instructor should insist this in a young group, but it's also surprising how few adults buddy check.
Don't be afraid to constructively criticise your belayer: there's some horrendous belaying techniques at indoor walls that should be stamped on. Don't be afraid to critique or even reject a climbing partner if their belay technique is not up to scratch (just make sure your own belaying is up to par .
Climbers younger that you generally welcome the opportunity to have guidance and tips from someone older (especially when it's not an adult!).
Alternatively, ask someone else you know to back them up: if they're not willing to do so then that might give you more cause to move on and find another climbing partner.
With regards to the grade difference, just switch things around: climb more lead than top-rope. The previous comments about learning to take lead falls is good. Probably good practice for a young belayer too.
Hope that helps. In any case, just keep climbing!
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
As has been said, you're right not to jump on a climb with any random and expect a good belay, but at the same time, being too sceptical will hinder your progress.
Maybe find two others to climb with, and as you rotate round, watch the other two, see if you're happy with how they belay.
Fall practice! Deliberately jumping off not only tests your belayer, but will boost your confidence. Sometimes I'll throw myself off an easy route, before I work something hard, just to get the fear out of me!
The biggest fall you'll ever take is going to clip, missing, and falling. So bare that in mind when practicing, there's no need to practice mega whippers as an indoor climber.
Rope burn might've come from holding something near to a QuickDraw as you fell? I wouldn't worry about it.
Leg behind the rope is a pain, I'm regularly guilty of it. On easy routes, I let it happen cos I know I'm probably not falling, and on hard routes, I'm too focused on the route to care. Took a nasty whipper complete with inversion last week, and got a pointy volume to the back. But, other than a bruise, I was fine, so i didn't let it bother me. I know I need to sort it though, cos it could've been worse. A good belayer should shout it out to be fair.
I don't wish I'd known anything when I was younger or starting, I think you need to learn these things as you go, and get stronger and improve. Maybe have a look at Dave macs book 9 out of ten climbers.
Don't focus on grades, just see if it looks good, and get on it. For some reason, I have a thing where I hate climbing 6c. I'm comfy at 6b+, and I love working 7a, but 6c just puts me off. No idea why. But I'm starting to ignore that more now, and just going for it, as I'm learning that grades can vary so much!
Anyhow, you're young, and have plenty of time, don't put too much pressure on yourself.
As has been said, you're right not to jump on a climb with any random and expect a good belay, but at the same time, being too sceptical will hinder your progress.
Maybe find two others to climb with, and as you rotate round, watch the other two, see if you're happy with how they belay.
Fall practice! Deliberately jumping off not only tests your belayer, but will boost your confidence. Sometimes I'll throw myself off an easy route, before I work something hard, just to get the fear out of me!
The biggest fall you'll ever take is going to clip, missing, and falling. So bare that in mind when practicing, there's no need to practice mega whippers as an indoor climber.
Rope burn might've come from holding something near to a QuickDraw as you fell? I wouldn't worry about it.
Leg behind the rope is a pain, I'm regularly guilty of it. On easy routes, I let it happen cos I know I'm probably not falling, and on hard routes, I'm too focused on the route to care. Took a nasty whipper complete with inversion last week, and got a pointy volume to the back. But, other than a bruise, I was fine, so i didn't let it bother me. I know I need to sort it though, cos it could've been worse. A good belayer should shout it out to be fair.
I don't wish I'd known anything when I was younger or starting, I think you need to learn these things as you go, and get stronger and improve. Maybe have a look at Dave macs book 9 out of ten climbers.
Don't focus on grades, just see if it looks good, and get on it. For some reason, I have a thing where I hate climbing 6c. I'm comfy at 6b+, and I love working 7a, but 6c just puts me off. No idea why. But I'm starting to ignore that more now, and just going for it, as I'm learning that grades can vary so much!
Anyhow, you're young, and have plenty of time, don't put too much pressure on yourself.
2
In reply to ClimberGirl:
All of the above is good solid advice, the only thing I can't see mentioned from a quick skim read is to take care of your body! Warm up, warm down, stretch, address any injuries as soon as they appear, no matter how insignificant, don't wait for them to become a bigger problem that stops you climbing. Always strive for good technique and good form, work with a youth coach if you aren't already to ensure you are moving correctly, an imbalance now will have long term consequences for the life of your climbing, but equally, good technique now should ensure a much longer period of trouble-free climbing.
Also, ask any sport climber, once you get outside, 7a is easier than 6c+
All of the above is good solid advice, the only thing I can't see mentioned from a quick skim read is to take care of your body! Warm up, warm down, stretch, address any injuries as soon as they appear, no matter how insignificant, don't wait for them to become a bigger problem that stops you climbing. Always strive for good technique and good form, work with a youth coach if you aren't already to ensure you are moving correctly, an imbalance now will have long term consequences for the life of your climbing, but equally, good technique now should ensure a much longer period of trouble-free climbing.
Also, ask any sport climber, once you get outside, 7a is easier than 6c+
2
In reply to ClimberGirl:
1) Fear of indoor lead.
You say you don't trust people who don't seem to be concentrating. Good, you shouldn't. That's going to keep you safe. Find some people you trust and climb with them. I've been climbing for the past 15 years or so and there are only 5 belayers I fully trust. There are other people who belay me on easier routes but never on those near my limit. Oh, and there's one more thing - I, too, feel uncomfortable falling indoors - because I'm just not motivated enough to finish the route. When I climb outdoors I don't even think about falling, all I think about is doing the next move and finally clipping the anchor.
About the grades - it's really hard to compare 6a overhanging, endurance route with 6a highly technical slab. It really depends on what style suits you most. Grades may feel very different across different climbing areas, too.
1) Fear of indoor lead.
You say you don't trust people who don't seem to be concentrating. Good, you shouldn't. That's going to keep you safe. Find some people you trust and climb with them. I've been climbing for the past 15 years or so and there are only 5 belayers I fully trust. There are other people who belay me on easier routes but never on those near my limit. Oh, and there's one more thing - I, too, feel uncomfortable falling indoors - because I'm just not motivated enough to finish the route. When I climb outdoors I don't even think about falling, all I think about is doing the next move and finally clipping the anchor.
About the grades - it's really hard to compare 6a overhanging, endurance route with 6a highly technical slab. It really depends on what style suits you most. Grades may feel very different across different climbing areas, too.
Post edited at 08:39
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Concentration relies on the belayer. I wouldn't have a problem of giving constructive feedback to a belayer in the form of "when you look around in a distracted way (or whatever the behaviour is that suggests lack of concentration) it makes me feel unsafe."
However if size is important then it might be worth using a ground anchor.
If I'm less confident in my belayer I will also given them one of my grippier belay devices rather than one that's a bit more slick.
*Progressive* fall practice - under supervision if needs be - also enables the belayer to improve their technique as well as you to gain confidence.
> 1. Fear of indoor lead!
> ... have trouble trusting people younger/smaller than me who don't really seem to be concentrating.
> ... have trouble trusting people younger/smaller than me who don't really seem to be concentrating.
Concentration relies on the belayer. I wouldn't have a problem of giving constructive feedback to a belayer in the form of "when you look around in a distracted way (or whatever the behaviour is that suggests lack of concentration) it makes me feel unsafe."
However if size is important then it might be worth using a ground anchor.
If I'm less confident in my belayer I will also given them one of my grippier belay devices rather than one that's a bit more slick.
*Progressive* fall practice - under supervision if needs be - also enables the belayer to improve their technique as well as you to gain confidence.
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
lead belaying is a skill. When my daughter was doing lots of comp climbing, she would take dozens of falls each session, and expected me to give her a proficient and soft catch each time. Also, heaven help me if iever came close to tight-roping her on a clip. If you are putting effort into doing the climb (working it out, keeping your head steady, going for that tricky move or clip) then the least you deserve is an attentive belayer who knows what they are doing! If you don't truly think your belayer is up to the job - don't climb with them. If they are a lovely person who you really really want to climb with, suggest you both, together, have some specific lead belay training to cover how to catch well. I climbed for quite a while with a lady who had a nasty habit of yanking the rope in if I fell. Once she inverted me and I smashed backwards into the wall, once she slammed me into a side wall. We did a course together after that!
lead belaying is a skill. When my daughter was doing lots of comp climbing, she would take dozens of falls each session, and expected me to give her a proficient and soft catch each time. Also, heaven help me if iever came close to tight-roping her on a clip. If you are putting effort into doing the climb (working it out, keeping your head steady, going for that tricky move or clip) then the least you deserve is an attentive belayer who knows what they are doing! If you don't truly think your belayer is up to the job - don't climb with them. If they are a lovely person who you really really want to climb with, suggest you both, together, have some specific lead belay training to cover how to catch well. I climbed for quite a while with a lady who had a nasty habit of yanking the rope in if I fell. Once she inverted me and I smashed backwards into the wall, once she slammed me into a side wall. We did a course together after that!
Post edited at 09:50
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In reply to ClimberGirl:
This hasn't been linked yet. Worth a good look: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1838
This hasn't been linked yet. Worth a good look: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1838
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In reply to ClimberGirl:
Thanks everyone - wasn't expecting to get so much helpful advice! I think I understand the 'rope behind leg' thing much better now so thanks for that. General consensus on ropeburn seems to be that it was mostly unfortunate (I don't think I tried to grab the rope but...) so I will just forget about it, although it was a bit offputting considering it happened the first time I ever fell off anything by mistake!
Fear: so many helpful tips here, will definitely go back and reread them all. I don't particularly want to reject my climbing partner though - they are a lovely person. I brought it up once though and just got laughed off so I haven't been climbing with them so much recently! It's the general looking round, constantly chatting and 'failing to take in a huge loop of slack from where I dropped the rope trying to clip' type thing that bothers me! I definitely trust them to catch me toprope though, so maybe I should start with that and work forwards. We've both taken a leading course at the wall we climb at too, when we first started, which makes it a close cross between rational and irrational I think!
Thanks again - and to the person who said 'climb outside' - I have a couple of times and really loved it (is it just me or does anyone else think it makes you really focus on footwork when you can't see a bright pink jug just above your head?!) , but adults aren't that keen to take a younger person with them it seems!
Thanks everyone - wasn't expecting to get so much helpful advice! I think I understand the 'rope behind leg' thing much better now so thanks for that. General consensus on ropeburn seems to be that it was mostly unfortunate (I don't think I tried to grab the rope but...) so I will just forget about it, although it was a bit offputting considering it happened the first time I ever fell off anything by mistake!
Fear: so many helpful tips here, will definitely go back and reread them all. I don't particularly want to reject my climbing partner though - they are a lovely person. I brought it up once though and just got laughed off so I haven't been climbing with them so much recently! It's the general looking round, constantly chatting and 'failing to take in a huge loop of slack from where I dropped the rope trying to clip' type thing that bothers me! I definitely trust them to catch me toprope though, so maybe I should start with that and work forwards. We've both taken a leading course at the wall we climb at too, when we first started, which makes it a close cross between rational and irrational I think!
Thanks again - and to the person who said 'climb outside' - I have a couple of times and really loved it (is it just me or does anyone else think it makes you really focus on footwork when you can't see a bright pink jug just above your head?!) , but adults aren't that keen to take a younger person with them it seems!
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Your fear of leading is a fear of falling, very natural and can be hard to get over. As others have said, keep practice falling and remember to rest the rope if you are taking big falls (use the other end for a while). My daughter took about 6 months to get over it completely and we still do fall practice. Her lead grade was soon past her top roping grades once she was happy.
Do you have a training plan? This might be useful to break into the 7s if you feel you have hit plateau. Hard to say without knowing more about your climbing, age etc though. Best advice would be to have a session with a coach near you and see what they think.
Good luck.
Your fear of leading is a fear of falling, very natural and can be hard to get over. As others have said, keep practice falling and remember to rest the rope if you are taking big falls (use the other end for a while). My daughter took about 6 months to get over it completely and we still do fall practice. Her lead grade was soon past her top roping grades once she was happy.
Do you have a training plan? This might be useful to break into the 7s if you feel you have hit plateau. Hard to say without knowing more about your climbing, age etc though. Best advice would be to have a session with a coach near you and see what they think.
Good luck.
As for #1: normally I insist on using grigri with new belayers. Even if a dude will have a heart attack I'll still have some dead weight on other side of the rope.
Person with grigri may not give you that soft catch, but at least you are not to hit the deck.
Post edited at 10:28
In reply to ClimberGirl:
There's been some very good advice here but you really do need to sort this belayer out if they are not paying attention. There's no excuse for it. At the wall you might get away with it to a certain extent because, with the very obvious exception of the ground, there's usually not much to hit. But outdoors crags are messy, especially in the lower grades, and the longer the fall the more chance you have of hitting things like ledges or protruding rocks. Will your friend still seem such a lovely person if you end up in a wheelchair (sorry to over-dramatise) because they were gossiping and had left needless amounts of rope out instead of paying attention? Don't let all those videos of superstars falling off their 9a clean into space fool you. In the lower grades falls can be very serious indeed and careless belaying can make them much worse..
> I don't particularly want to reject my climbing partner though - they are a lovely person.
There's been some very good advice here but you really do need to sort this belayer out if they are not paying attention. There's no excuse for it. At the wall you might get away with it to a certain extent because, with the very obvious exception of the ground, there's usually not much to hit. But outdoors crags are messy, especially in the lower grades, and the longer the fall the more chance you have of hitting things like ledges or protruding rocks. Will your friend still seem such a lovely person if you end up in a wheelchair (sorry to over-dramatise) because they were gossiping and had left needless amounts of rope out instead of paying attention? Don't let all those videos of superstars falling off their 9a clean into space fool you. In the lower grades falls can be very serious indeed and careless belaying can make them much worse..
2
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Hi there. I am a complete novice at climbing. Had never belayed before until my then 7yr old daughter entered the YCS series and suddenly we had to go an buy a rope and harness for the 2 of us. A few hours with a friend i trust 100% showing me how to belay and tie/check nots and we went off to the local wall. Its now about 9mths later and i think the fact that me and my daughter have learned together (She has a 6ft length of climbing rope in her bedroom and always insists on checking knots and everything like screw gates are shut) means we trust each other 100%.
At the comps i was like a hawk watching the belayers. Even to the point i was about to step in when the guy set things up with a screwgate on the rope so he could quickly change from one kid to another (It was pulled up by another marshall). My girl tbh just got on with things and had a moment on her final climb where she went for it, got her leg caught in the rope and flipped upside down at about 15-20m. Its a bit worrying when that happens but she came down smiling and laughing.
I think the point of my post might be toencourage you to build a relationship with a belayer. I know its not always possible but i think you would relax so much more if you didnt have to give it a second thought.
One final tip i have (Which is just personal advice). I basically commentate the climb to my daughter as she climbs. 'Good move', 'think about your feet', 'wheres your next move'. Even when she isnt really needing a comment i still do. It comes from my football coaching background. Its probably the worst kind of coaching and she probably ignores 99.9% of the talk, however the one thing it does that she probably doesnt realise is that i am confirming to her that i am 100% watching her climbing at every point. I know its clumsy of me, but i dont care.
I appreciate i havent got any experience compared to these guys so if someone says something is completely wrong i understand
Hi there. I am a complete novice at climbing. Had never belayed before until my then 7yr old daughter entered the YCS series and suddenly we had to go an buy a rope and harness for the 2 of us. A few hours with a friend i trust 100% showing me how to belay and tie/check nots and we went off to the local wall. Its now about 9mths later and i think the fact that me and my daughter have learned together (She has a 6ft length of climbing rope in her bedroom and always insists on checking knots and everything like screw gates are shut) means we trust each other 100%.
At the comps i was like a hawk watching the belayers. Even to the point i was about to step in when the guy set things up with a screwgate on the rope so he could quickly change from one kid to another (It was pulled up by another marshall). My girl tbh just got on with things and had a moment on her final climb where she went for it, got her leg caught in the rope and flipped upside down at about 15-20m. Its a bit worrying when that happens but she came down smiling and laughing.
I think the point of my post might be toencourage you to build a relationship with a belayer. I know its not always possible but i think you would relax so much more if you didnt have to give it a second thought.
One final tip i have (Which is just personal advice). I basically commentate the climb to my daughter as she climbs. 'Good move', 'think about your feet', 'wheres your next move'. Even when she isnt really needing a comment i still do. It comes from my football coaching background. Its probably the worst kind of coaching and she probably ignores 99.9% of the talk, however the one thing it does that she probably doesnt realise is that i am confirming to her that i am 100% watching her climbing at every point. I know its clumsy of me, but i dont care.
I appreciate i havent got any experience compared to these guys so if someone says something is completely wrong i understand
In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:
the commentating is v much horses for courses. If I'm doing something at my limit, with someone who knows how I climb, then their verbal encouragement and reminders of what to do next are v much appreciated. Woe betide if I used the same approach with my daughter though - she hated it!
Climbergirl - going on your wall's basic lead climbing course is not the same thing at all as getting some specialist help with belaying. The basic course is just teaching the bog standard belay hand movements, giving slack, how to clip, how to hold a fall. That isn't the same thing at all as proper lead belaying when someone it trying hard - running in and out, anticipating clips, giving a safe soft fall rather than slamming. And believe me, the difference between knowing it will be soft or slam is pivotal in your attitude to taking falls!
Grigris - yes if used properly they will stop an inattentive belayer finding the rope is whistling through their fingers. However, they can be used v badly & unsafely indeed! I regularly see people not holding the dead rope in order to haul through slack quickly, or the opposite and find the device is locking up on them when their climber yanks desperatly to get a hard clip in. I would say to belay well with a grigri takes a lot more skill, practise & attention than an atc.
the commentating is v much horses for courses. If I'm doing something at my limit, with someone who knows how I climb, then their verbal encouragement and reminders of what to do next are v much appreciated. Woe betide if I used the same approach with my daughter though - she hated it!
Climbergirl - going on your wall's basic lead climbing course is not the same thing at all as getting some specialist help with belaying. The basic course is just teaching the bog standard belay hand movements, giving slack, how to clip, how to hold a fall. That isn't the same thing at all as proper lead belaying when someone it trying hard - running in and out, anticipating clips, giving a safe soft fall rather than slamming. And believe me, the difference between knowing it will be soft or slam is pivotal in your attitude to taking falls!
Grigris - yes if used properly they will stop an inattentive belayer finding the rope is whistling through their fingers. However, they can be used v badly & unsafely indeed! I regularly see people not holding the dead rope in order to haul through slack quickly, or the opposite and find the device is locking up on them when their climber yanks desperatly to get a hard clip in. I would say to belay well with a grigri takes a lot more skill, practise & attention than an atc.
Post edited at 11:39
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Wait until you go backwards, or completely lose your leading head for no reason..... ohhh so much fun.
If you've plateaued and want to get better, it is probably worth having a good climbing coach watch you and tell you whether it's technique or training. At the 7s I would imagine it's training - I would be surprised if you got there with shoddy technique - but I guess if you're really light it's possible.
> How not to get fed up with slow progress (why is 7a so much harder than 6c+)?!
Wait until you go backwards, or completely lose your leading head for no reason..... ohhh so much fun.
If you've plateaued and want to get better, it is probably worth having a good climbing coach watch you and tell you whether it's technique or training. At the 7s I would imagine it's training - I would be surprised if you got there with shoddy technique - but I guess if you're really light it's possible.
Cultivating partners you like to climb with is important, for enjoyment, safety, and progress. As others have said, that could be putting in effort to improve the belaying of a climber you otherwise like climbing with. Or it could be consciously making the effort to approach and be friendly to people you think fit the bill.
Clip drop is the way forward. I'd advise small steps starting from small falls. Even just falling with clips at your waist and some slack in the system is a good first step, repeated at every clip for 2 or 3 laps. Then perhaps 30 cm falls for the same. The important thing is that each fall is a positive experience, so you walk away with the subconscious mental message that lead falls are ok and don't hurt.
As someone who likes roped climbing and endurance climbing, I wish I'd discovered earlier how valuable strength gains are; and that bouldering is (imo) the key to gaining that. Also that climbing yourself into the ground is not the best way to train i.e. "stop strong" and "you get stronger on rest days".
In reply to ClimberGirl:
It's not, your head just thinks it is because it's a boundary grade (like the move from HVS to E1). When I started climbing I thought 7a was the living end and never thought I'd be able to climb that hard, as it turns out it's just a bit harder than 6c+, which is a bit harder than 6c etc etc. Also I don't know how tall you are but it's worth bearing in mind that indoor routes are often harder for the short than outdoor routes as you have fewer foot and handhold choices.
Other things I wish I'd known are to climb with straight arms (I always thought I was but it turns out I was still pulling), learn to shake out/rest properly on routes and, most importantly, to try really really hard. That last one is fairly dependent on you sorting your lead head/fear of falling but it probably makes the biggest difference!
> 4. Things you wish you had known when you were younger/ starting out? How not to get fed up with slow progress (why is 7a so much harder than 6c+)?!
It's not, your head just thinks it is because it's a boundary grade (like the move from HVS to E1). When I started climbing I thought 7a was the living end and never thought I'd be able to climb that hard, as it turns out it's just a bit harder than 6c+, which is a bit harder than 6c etc etc. Also I don't know how tall you are but it's worth bearing in mind that indoor routes are often harder for the short than outdoor routes as you have fewer foot and handhold choices.
Other things I wish I'd known are to climb with straight arms (I always thought I was but it turns out I was still pulling), learn to shake out/rest properly on routes and, most importantly, to try really really hard. That last one is fairly dependent on you sorting your lead head/fear of falling but it probably makes the biggest difference!
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Well that fear may be saving you a serious injury if your belayers are rubbish. I'd stick with top roping (and bouldering) until you can find reliable belayers.
You can't completely. Minor injuries like that are pretty common when lead climbing. Looking down when you fall is helpful to make sure you land/hit the wall in the best way. Adam Ondra finished a recent comp with a rope burn behind his knee so it can still happen even to the best.
If you fall with the rope behind your leg when above gear there is potential it will flip you upside down as the rope comes tight. It happened to me once. I got a bruise behind my knee, not a big deal. But there is potential to hit your head so a good belayer who gives you a soft catch can prevent that. But generally try to be mindful of where your rope is when climbing. After a while it becomes second nature to keep your rope in front of your legs and you barely have to think about it.
Slow progress is fine. After a year of continual slow progress you'll be a much better climber than you were. As long as its not 'no progress'. If you climb regularly (3 times per week) you should improve if you do the right stuff. If you're not improving then you need to change what you're doing. In general spend a lot more time doing the stuff you're worst at (you'll probably have to try at a lower grade). A lot of people avoid their working their weaknesses because they don't want to appear sh*t in front of their peers. If you can get over that you'll have a big advantage in the longer run.
> Just a few questions from a teen climber who's been climbing indoors only (sadly) for a couple of years now:
> 1. Fear of indoor lead!
Well that fear may be saving you a serious injury if your belayers are rubbish. I'd stick with top roping (and bouldering) until you can find reliable belayers.
> 2. How would I have ended up with rope burn on the inside of my left wrist from a fall - how can I avoid this happening again?
You can't completely. Minor injuries like that are pretty common when lead climbing. Looking down when you fall is helpful to make sure you land/hit the wall in the best way. Adam Ondra finished a recent comp with a rope burn behind his knee so it can still happen even to the best.
> 3. When people talk about 'rope behind your leg' what do they mean?
If you fall with the rope behind your leg when above gear there is potential it will flip you upside down as the rope comes tight. It happened to me once. I got a bruise behind my knee, not a big deal. But there is potential to hit your head so a good belayer who gives you a soft catch can prevent that. But generally try to be mindful of where your rope is when climbing. After a while it becomes second nature to keep your rope in front of your legs and you barely have to think about it.
> 4. Things you wish you had known when you were younger/ starting out? How not to get fed up with slow progress (why is 7a so much harder than 6c+)?!
Slow progress is fine. After a year of continual slow progress you'll be a much better climber than you were. As long as its not 'no progress'. If you climb regularly (3 times per week) you should improve if you do the right stuff. If you're not improving then you need to change what you're doing. In general spend a lot more time doing the stuff you're worst at (you'll probably have to try at a lower grade). A lot of people avoid their working their weaknesses because they don't want to appear sh*t in front of their peers. If you can get over that you'll have a big advantage in the longer run.
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
My climbing partner and I both use an Edelrid Mega Jul belay device as it gives assisted braking - in reality your belayer could go hands free it's that good. Maybe using something like this could reassure you that you can't be dropped.
My climbing partner and I both use an Edelrid Mega Jul belay device as it gives assisted braking - in reality your belayer could go hands free it's that good. Maybe using something like this could reassure you that you can't be dropped.
In reply to Dandan:
Ha, ha - very true Dan!
> Also, ask any sport climber, once you get outside, 7a is easier than 6c+
Ha, ha - very true Dan!
2
In reply to Marcus:
I second that opinion on 6C+ and 7A. My thoughts are that if you are operating around 7A then you perceive 6C+ should require less effort hence are suprised when you are spat off the rock.
In truth climbing is always hard whatever the grade and that it is your capacity to deal with the challenge it is what changes as you improve.
I second that opinion on 6C+ and 7A. My thoughts are that if you are operating around 7A then you perceive 6C+ should require less effort hence are suprised when you are spat off the rock.
In truth climbing is always hard whatever the grade and that it is your capacity to deal with the challenge it is what changes as you improve.
1
In reply to ClimberGirl:
If you don't completely trust your belayer you shouldn't leave the ground. I know that sounds harsh but if you genuinely think there's a chance they won't do their job properly then you are deliberately putting yourself in an unsafe situation. Would you climb if you didn't trust the knot you'd tied in with? Of course not.
Apart from the pure keeping-yourself-safe consideration you will never be able to concentrate fully on what you're doing if you are looking down to check that your belayer is on task. Once you trust your belayer you will find it much easier to just get on with the climb.
> 1. Fear of indoor lead!
> Yes it is completely irrational but what can I do to get over it? Main issue seems to be in trusting belayer - when I have someone I really trust to catch me (eg an instructor) I will just get on with it, but have trouble trusting people younger/smaller than me who don't really seem to be concentrating.
> Yes it is completely irrational but what can I do to get over it? Main issue seems to be in trusting belayer - when I have someone I really trust to catch me (eg an instructor) I will just get on with it, but have trouble trusting people younger/smaller than me who don't really seem to be concentrating.
If you don't completely trust your belayer you shouldn't leave the ground. I know that sounds harsh but if you genuinely think there's a chance they won't do their job properly then you are deliberately putting yourself in an unsafe situation. Would you climb if you didn't trust the knot you'd tied in with? Of course not.
Apart from the pure keeping-yourself-safe consideration you will never be able to concentrate fully on what you're doing if you are looking down to check that your belayer is on task. Once you trust your belayer you will find it much easier to just get on with the climb.
In reply to ClimberGirl:
My number one bit of advice for others starting out is listen to your body. When it's injured give it the time and attention to recover.
I was always of the mentality that if I still can climb then I will - The biggest mistake was damaging pulleys in my finger joints, and returning too soon, strapping up the fingers, putting up with the pain and continuing to climb. 10 years on from my best climbing (leading 7as) I now can't climb more than once a month due to the on going pain I have in my hands.
Be wary of playing the grade game - it's great when you are young and improving, as every other week you can gain a half grade or do something new you couldn't before, but as you get better and plateau it can be pretty demotivating and I've seen quite a few excellent climbers drop out and lose interest when they've got too close to their personal upper limits.... so keep it fun - make the grades an inconsequential by-product.
My number one bit of advice for others starting out is listen to your body. When it's injured give it the time and attention to recover.
I was always of the mentality that if I still can climb then I will - The biggest mistake was damaging pulleys in my finger joints, and returning too soon, strapping up the fingers, putting up with the pain and continuing to climb. 10 years on from my best climbing (leading 7as) I now can't climb more than once a month due to the on going pain I have in my hands.
Be wary of playing the grade game - it's great when you are young and improving, as every other week you can gain a half grade or do something new you couldn't before, but as you get better and plateau it can be pretty demotivating and I've seen quite a few excellent climbers drop out and lose interest when they've got too close to their personal upper limits.... so keep it fun - make the grades an inconsequential by-product.
In reply to ClimberGirl:
Great questions.
1: your worried about the belayer being smaller, as a leader you need to make a decision if you fall here with the weight difference would you hit the ground? usually in a gym this is very rare at the 3rd bolt and up(again -your call).
trust is built up over time, you will find someone you feel more comfortable to climb with.
2: rope burn wont happen often, get it out your mind.
3: rope behind the leg is fairly important as if you fall when the rope is not in front of you or your leg is caught, you will end up upside down.
So when someone tell your to check your rope or rope behind you etc. Just look down, see where your feet are and move the rope in front of your body or other side of your leg.
rope management will develop the more you climb.
4: enjoy all type of climbing. Bouldering will teach you crux moves, routes will give you endurance. find a mixture and enjoy
when you do venture outside wear a helmet
Great questions.
1: your worried about the belayer being smaller, as a leader you need to make a decision if you fall here with the weight difference would you hit the ground? usually in a gym this is very rare at the 3rd bolt and up(again -your call).
trust is built up over time, you will find someone you feel more comfortable to climb with.
2: rope burn wont happen often, get it out your mind.
3: rope behind the leg is fairly important as if you fall when the rope is not in front of you or your leg is caught, you will end up upside down.
So when someone tell your to check your rope or rope behind you etc. Just look down, see where your feet are and move the rope in front of your body or other side of your leg.
rope management will develop the more you climb.
4: enjoy all type of climbing. Bouldering will teach you crux moves, routes will give you endurance. find a mixture and enjoy
when you do venture outside wear a helmet
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