UKC

Hi Folks,
with Xmas and the January Sales approaching I have been thinking of getting a new, lined but not insulated waterproof jacket. The one I have been using for the last ten or twelve years has been an early North Face jacket with the Hi-vent coating. It has been very good, very strong and breathable, but it is beginning to look "rather used" now so I am looking to update.
I`m out in the Peak District in all weathers and carry a light to medium weight rucksack and would like to buy a jacket that would keep the weather out but be strong enough to last for the next ten or twelve years.
So, have any of you good readers out there have any suggestions to offer?
Many thanks.
regards,

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

If you seriously want durable, then look at Paramo, though they are warmer than standard shell jackets.

In reply to Hector Heathcote:
Paramo would be my recommendation if durability is a top priority (and for me reliability and comfort thrown in). That said they are much warmer than other waterproofs. I run hot with hill walking anyway but even so they are still my go to waterproofs for the worst conditions or poor highly variable conditions. I'd rather run hotter and be comfortable than be cold and wet from the lack of breath ability from other "normal" waterproofs.

I do wear other jackets for warmer conditions though - above 8C full weight Paramo is going to be too warm for me.

Suggest you search the forums as there are many Paramo posts to get a diverse range of views. They are a love or hate make.

Besides Paramo, I'll leave it to others to make recommendations as my experience of them is limited.

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

In fairness it's much of a muchness these days. There's a good choice of membranes that all breathe fairly well but it's the fit that counts. A good fit around the chin is a must for me. I had an old top end Kongur ME jacket that was like a rainwater drainpipe straight down my chest inside the jacket. My slightly fatter friend never had any issues as his chin sealed against the top of the zip.
Climbing cuts tend to be slimmer and helmet compatable but for hiking you might not need this. Sport pursuit flash sales tend to have excellent deals if you can catch them but I'd suggest trying on before buying.
http://www.sportpursuit.com/

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

Paramo.

In reply to Hector Heathcote:
The Keela Munro (http://www.keela.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/146/s/munro-jacket/category/... is a bomb proof jacket - its rather bulky (and to my mind quite warm) but it will last you forever (but probably wont remain waterproof for the duration - what does?). It's why they dish them out to police, mountain rescue, etc, etc.


Marc

In reply to Hector Heathcote:
I simply don't understand why anyone would want a lined waterproof, though it's clear some do. By doubling the weight and insulation factor you are inevitably increasing the warmth and perspiration that will bedevil the waterproofing and breathability.

Fine for standing around in fields but once on the move is a system of individual layers not more comfortable? Paramo has its fans and is the most breathable of the multi-skinned options, but a thin shell combined with a comfy fleece is more flexible and adaptable, especially when it stops raining and you want the breathable insulation without the waterproofing and accompanying fug!!

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

I'd definately reccomend a Paramo jacket - wear it all day on the mountain in the winter with just a base layer underneath - perfect for the UK. Be warned though, I find it too hot for the summer.

If you haven't looked at waterproofs for 10 years or so, you may be surprised how far technology has moved on. I think they're all pretty much the same (my opinion): under £100 - too flimsy; £100-£200 decent waterproofs; £200+ can't justify the cost. Buy last years colours in the sale and you can pick up something decent from the mid range for under £100. As for the style of jacket? Try them on and see which one won't annoy you when you're cold, wet and miserable!

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

I'd look at Paramo as well, albeit needing a lighter waterproof shell for summer.

In reply to Phil1919:
I'm not convinced you'd get ten years out of a Paramo top ... I've worn two out, both wearing through just above my bum where the bottom of my rucksack sits. Would happily buy a third one, mind ...

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

Another vote for Paramo.
I currently use a Velez Adventure smock. Prior to that, over the preceding 30 years I had been through PU and neoprene proofed non-breatheable shells, then 4 different Goretex jackets (all from well known major brands). ALL THE GORETEX JACKETS EVENTUALLY LEAKED!
They were fine when relatively new, but the hydrophobic treatment of the outer shell eventually becomes less effective. Once that happens and the material 'wets out', it seems that the Goretex membrane alone, cannot cope and leaks happen. On one occasion this happened in potentially life threatening conditions (the exact time that you need it to perform!).
Paramo is a 'Marmite' brand i.e. love or hate. My experience with the Velez is that I use it differently to a normal shell in that it can become normal wear, even when not raining. However, it is much warmer than a shell, so I tend to wear a merino base layer then the Velez. Ventilation can be controlled to a certain extent via the zips and cuffs, but it may not be the best if you run hot. In my experience Paramo is far more breathable than Goretex. In winter I use the same, but add a thin fleece to the layers and an overlayer when stopped (belaying). I also have Aspira salopettes for winter climbing and love 'em.
So, in summary, Paramo stuff is heavier, warmer and more breathable, but you need to use it differently to other shell jackets to get the most from it.
Just my opinion. Others will differ.
N

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

I've got a Mountain Equipment Lhotse. Expensive but well worth it. Lightweight, highly breathable and looks good. Regarding the DWR (Durable Water Repellant) coating wearing out.....I use Nikwax Tech Wash to re-vitalise the coating every few months and then also Nikwax TX Direct wash in when it needs re-proofing.

Works a treat and should extend the jackets life by a good few years !

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

Jottnar belgamir shell. Mine has had about 100 days on the hill so far this year, still going strong!

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

Thank you for all your replies, and I take on board what you say. The majority of you recommend Paramo, a make that I haven`t tried before, so as I make my way around all the retailers I will bear this make very much in mind.

Once again many thanks to all who replied.

regards,

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

I have used a Mountain Equipment Tupilak II for some time. It is not cheap, but I believe that if you buy cheap you buy often. It is excellent, it has never let even in a drop of moisture-buy it!

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

I have a paramo, the first one I bought in 2003, replaced last year with a lighter one, and they gave me £50 for the 11 year old one, which was still 100% waterproof, just very tatty. I'm properly nesh so it's great for me. If you fancy a punt on something cheaper have a look at the furtech range http://www.furtech.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=23 I'd definitely avoid the ptfe membrane type in future

In reply to cousin nick:

So with the smock short front fit how do you manage? I have a Montane ,short at the front longer at the back, jacket and its waterproof but, imo, useless for normal hillwalking ie if it rains. I can put up with wet thighs for a day, but not a wet crotch, and I don't want to wear 'waterproof' trews all day.

paramo is toilet imo

ive got a cioch glamaig and never been happy with it, put a pack on and the straps press against the fabric which is bad news on paramo as you get wet also hope you dont plan to sit down anywhere and press water through the fabric...mine never seemes to bead either even after having washed with soap flakes by hand and proofed with nikwax always wet on the cuffs, too hot also

got rab Bergen eVent jacket also which makes you sweat anyway so your still gonna be moist

In reply to cousin nick:
http://www.gore-tex.co.uk/remote/Satellite/content/care/washing-instructions

Gortex jackets need occasionally washing and gentle tumble drying to reactivate the finish that beads the water. It needs the heat. I use tech wash.

I've had mine 20 years and the seams need taping now, but the fabric is still waterproof.

In reply to Hector Heathcote:

i would go paramo as well , my original cascada jacket is now 17 years old and had a lot of use, it's looking rather shabby and is now go to work jacket. replaced the zip. velcro cuffs . and the poppers are not really popping any more , but it is still totally waterproof and breathable , you will not get that from anything else . it does need washing and proofing regularly but so should gortex type fabrics , this is not hard to do . some find them a bit warm. i use mine all year round . and there is nothing better for uk conditions in my opinion. bargains to be had at the paramo extras shop on ebay

In reply to Wingnut:

I've had my Paramo jacket 16 years and it still keeps me dry and comfortable (although looking pretty battered now). I work as a walking guide in Scotland and wear it pretty much all the time except for the middle bit of some summers when it gets too hot. Easily the best jacket I've ever had.